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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    When you dock your iPhone and run iTunes, no connection is made to apple that I am aware of. I often dock my iPhone to my laptop when it is not connected to the web.
    And how do you think this key revocation is going to take place? And when it says you have the latest firmware, thats using a telepathic link with Apple?

    Surur
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    When you dock your iPhone and run iTunes, no connection is made to apple that I am aware of.
    That almost sounds ominous. Besides - isn't someone checking my iPhone's software? How else will I get the automated notifications that my AppStore (from iTunes) software needs to be upgraded? Will the (possibly fictional ) AT&T App compare the state of my iPhone's Activesync with my account status to determine if my iPhone's Activesync needs an (unannounced) update?

    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    I often dock my iPhone to my laptop when it is not connected to the web.
    And someone who never connects their computer to the web probably doesn't have a need for Exchange Server. But someone who uses Exchange Server probably keeps their computer connected to the web a lot.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    And how do you think this key revocation is going to take place? And when it says you have the latest firmware, thats using a telepathic link with Apple?

    Surur
    I click on the check for updates button in iTunes. I don't use the apple autouodate service.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    That almost sounds ominous. Besides - isn't someone checking my iPhone's software? How else will I get the automated notifications that my AppStore (from iTunes) software needs to be upgraded? Will the (possibly fictional ) AT&T App compare the state of my iPhone's Activesync with my account status to determine if my iPhone's Activesync needs an (unannounced) update?

    And someone who never connects their computer to the web probably doesn't have a need for Exchange Server. But someone who uses Exchange Server probably keeps their computer connected to the web a lot.
    I am an exchange user and I often connect to my laptop with no net connection.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    I am an exchange user and I often connect to my laptop with no net connection.
    That just makes you unique!
  6. #26  
    WOW. This got a bit off topic didn't it. If you are not a fan of how apple does things that's fine. But embellishing the facts to scare people that the big brother Apple will be sneaking into our back door and removing applications isn't doing anybody any good.

    I thought this thread was about exchange service and how much it costs. Am I wrong?

    Thanks Mobileman. I too talked to my rep and he initially wanted to charge me $45. After I explained that I don't need VPN, or business apps, etc.

    I quoted the business description here. http://www.wireless.att.com/business...ne3G/index.jsp
    It says; Enterprise Data Plan for iPhone: When using iPhone to access corporate email, company intranet sites, and/or other business solutions/applications.

    He was sympathetic and he agreed, but he still didn't know what the real answer was going to be.
  7.    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
    But embellishing the facts to scare people that the big brother Apple will be sneaking into our back door and removing applications isn't doing anybody any good.
    What part is embellished?

    Surur
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    What part is embellished?

    Surur
    I guess the part where you made assumptions on behind the scene connections to Apple servers, Apple removing apps without the users knowledge, and the removal of email service ota. Did I miss anything?
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
    He was sympathetic and he agreed, but he still didn't know what the real answer was going to be.
    This is the frustrating part. I have a feeling nobody knows yet.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    When you have an iPhone, you dont have root. Apple can do anything they want.

    Surur
    Wow. Anything? Anything? C'mon. They can do somethings, but no company or person can do anything they want. My wife tells me this all the time.



    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    and can maintain a persistent connection to Apple. Apple has the right and capability to erase 3rd party apps already deployed from your handset.
    They do not have the right or the capability to erase anything on my phone, only if I have jailbroke my phone, added un-approved apps and upgrade my firmware. In which case, it would just be a matter of time before I could/would jailbreak it again and add the application back.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Its quite possible Apple will ONLY activate exchange support when you sign up for a $45 data plan, and when you cancel the plan downgrade your device.
    Possible, but from all other smartphones, no-one has seen this type of ability....and everyone I talk to says activesync is http/https protocol, so it would be hard if not impossible to block.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Its their phone after all, not yours.
    Really? didn't I buy it? I'm pretty sure I did. Now, the cost may be subsidized through AT&T so I'm stuck paying some bills with them....But as soon as I get it, it is mine, and I would be free to take it to any carrier after my 2 years is up. This is true of ALMOST ALL I repeat ALMOST ALL subsidized dumb and smart phones on the market today.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    You need a persistent connection to Apple to have background app notifications.
    Yes only if I'm going to use one of these 'yet-to-be-developed' types of services and applications. Even then, you or I don't know what type of info they are sending. I would 'assume' with so many many iphones potentially connecting to this Apple-Notifications-Server, that for all practicality, the server would only be handing out notifications, not collecting what other type of applications I have installed, if I was using exchange service, or even have a jailbroke phone. It just wouldn't be practical.


    I've been a long long time Windows Mobile Man (since WinMob2003 with a Zaurus and a Clie before that). And I'm scared to death that I'm going to be missing some key functionality when I jump ship and get the iPhone soon, but the iPhone bring so so so much more to the table. I've said it before, the iPhone is not perfect, but the OS seems so stable, so polished, and so integrated. WOW...I'm going to have a fantastic phone, MP3 player, Video Player, Web Surfing that works, Big screen, and a gps unit, not to mention amazing extras like accelerometers and proximity sensors. AND it is thin. I don't know how some one couldn't think that this phone is cool. Sure it is missing somethings, but look how far they have come in a year. And look at all the hype and the community that has been created around the iphone hacking and adding those missing features. This year promises to be an even better one for the iPhone.

    Whew. I'm done now.
  11.    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
    Wow. Anything? Anything? C'mon. They can do somethings, but no company or person can do anything they want. My wife tells me this all the time.

    They do not have the right or the capability to erase anything on my phone, only if I have jailbroke my phone, added un-approved apps and upgrade my firmware. In which case, it would just be a matter of time before I could/would jailbreak it again and add the application back.
    Are you telling me they cant revoke applications, because Stevie said they can. Are you calling Him a liar?

    Possible, but from all other smartphones, no-one has seen this type of ability....and everyone I talk to says activesync is http/https protocol, so it would be hard if not impossible to block.
    Think different - its Apple after all. Are you telling me its impossible for Stevie to disable software functionality on an iPhone?

    Yes only if I'm going to use one of these 'yet-to-be-developed' types of services and applications. Even then, you or I don't know what type of info they are sending. I would 'assume' with so many many iphones potentially connecting to this Apple-Notifications-Server, that for all practicality, the server would only be handing out notifications, not collecting what other type of applications I have installed, if I was using exchange service, or even have a jailbroke phone. It just wouldn't be practical.
    Stevie knows all the apps you have installed already, because He made the phone, and there are no authorized apps without His consent. You talk about jailbreaking as if its just an alternate way to manage an iphone, vs taking advantage of a vulnerability in the device to escalate privileges. AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK $the$ $iPhone$ $v$ $2$ $software$, $release$ $5$,$6$,$7$, $and$ $8$ $have$ $not$ $yet$ $been$ $jailbroken$ $yet$.

    About Stevie doing anything he wanted, He bricked people's phones. What could be worse?

    BTW, you should read the EULA.

    1. General. The software (including Boot ROM code and other embedded software), documentation and any fonts that came with your iPhone, as may be updated or replaced by
    software updates or system restore software provided by Apple, whether in read only memory, on any other media or in any other form (collectively the "iPhone Software") are
    licensed, not sold, to you by Apple Inc. ("Apple") for use only under the terms of this License, and Apple reserves all rights not expressly granted to you. You own the media on which
    the iPhone Software is recorded but Apple and/or Apple's licensor(s) retain ownership of the iPhone Software itself.

    4. Consent to Use of Non-Personal Data.
    (a) You agree that Apple and its subsidiaries may collect and use technical and related information, including but not limited to technical information about your iPhone, computer,
    system and application software, and peripherals, that is gathered periodically to facilitate the provision of software updates, product support and other services to you (if any)
    related to the iPhone Software, and to verify compliance with the terms of this License. Apple may use this information, as long as it is in a form that does not personally identify you,
    to improve our products or to provide services or technologies to you.
    http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/iphone.pdf

    You keep the brick, they take their software.

    Surur
    Last edited by surur; 07/03/2008 at 09:30 AM.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Are you telling me they cant revoke applications, because Stevie said they can. Are you calling Him a liar?
    Show me where he said he or Apple will come to MY phone and uninstall any application on my phone.


    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Think different - its Apple after all. Are you telling me its impossible for Stevie to disable software functionality on an iPhone?
    No. It is not impossible, but no other phone has shown this type of action. And No Apple or AT&T news release or guide has stated that "if you want to use Exchange service whether it is your own home server, a corporate server, or other, YOU MUST PAY FOR CORPORATE DATA PACKAGE" So for now, I'm going to assume that it doesn't matter. Until Someone can point me to a FACT. You don't have any FACTS, you are just bashing 'Stevie' and Apple for some un-known reason. Stick to the facts please.



    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Stevie knows all the apps you have installed already, because He made the phone, and there are no authorized apps without His consent.
    NO HE DOESN'T. There is no way he could. I can install anything I want on a Jailbroken phone. Even if not jailbroken, I still can install any application that is in the app store, and what is wrong with the fact that they have to be tested for stability before released to the John Q IphoneUser.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    You talk about jailbreaking as if its just an alternate way to manage an iphone, vs taking advantage of a vulnerability in the device to escalate privileges.
    What's the difference? Yes, I'm escalating my privileges so that I can have an alternate way to manage my phone. You point makes no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK $the$ $iPhone$ $v$ $2$ $software$, $release$ $5$,$6$,$7$, $and$ $8$ $have$ $not$ $yet$ $been$ $jailbroken$ $yet$.
    It is not Jailbroken yet, because it is not in the Wild. But I would assume it won't be long after the release that someone figures out how to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    About Stevie doing anything he wanted, He bricked people's phones. What could be worse?

    Surur
    He bricked peoples phones who jailbroke them....not the average user. That is the risk you take with jailbreaking or any tweaks or firmware upgrades to any device....you run the risk of breaking it completely. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.
  13. #33  
    That type of legal mumbo jumbo can be found in any computer, software, phone, or electrical personal device. That doesn't scare me or even bother me. Again, your taking little tidbits and twisting them around and blowing them up to make your point of view and scare people.

    Have you read the EULA for Windows Vista? I haven't but I'm sure there are some scary things in there too!

    Just relax dude. So you don't like Apple or iPhones. Then don't offer us any of your opinions.

    I just want to know the facts of what people know about AT&T's data plan....not anybodies' opinion of why I should avoid Apple and iPhones. Your not helping anybody.

    Keep your grumpy, 'Apple is going to take over the world and make us all use iPhones that a glued to our heads and suck our brains out and hold them in some Apple server' bologna to yourself. Thanks but no thanks.
  14.    #34  
    Show me where he said he or Apple will come to MY phone and uninstall any application on my phone.
    Security
    Apple wants complete control over the applications and will offer developers the privelege of publishing iPhone applications as long as the apps are straight-up honest. Any malicious intent or serious bugs, and Apple will revoke the developer's digital certificate much like the DMV can revoke driving licenses. This ensures that legit developers won't be lending their digital certificates to small-time, and possibly shady, developers that want to publish iPhone applications. Why risk losing your certificate to help out a questionable developer outfit?

    Furthermore, Apple can simply disable any applications that it finds to be malicious - protecting users after the fact, with another layer of security. This is both bad and good, because that means that all iPhone applications will have to abide by Apple's guidelines and that any deviation from the rules can result in a disabled application (if it even manages to pass initial inspection) and/or revocation of the digital certificate. That means we probably won't be getting any third-party applications running in the background.
    http://www.intomobile.com/2008/03/19...-industry.html

    What's the difference? Yes, I'm escalating my privileges so that I can have an alternate way to manage my phone. You point makes no sense.
    The point is that its unauthorized, used a vulnerability in the phone, and could and would therefore be targetted by Apple for closure at any time.

    He bricked peoples phones who jailbroke them....not the average user. That is the risk you take with jailbreaking or any tweaks or firmware upgrades to any device....you run the risk of breaking it completely. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.
    So if he's not afraid to break people's phones, why would it worry him to disable exchange activesync until you proof of an authorized plan? He already disables the phone until you have proof of a plan, something no other GSM company does.

    Surur
  15. #35  
    Fantanstic. I give Apple a big thanks for wanting to protect me from malicious software and protect my data. Thanks. What's so wrong with this. If someone makes a bad program it will be removed from the app store and if and when I choose to sync, it will be removed from my phone. But if I feel it is valuable, I'm sure there will be a way to protect myself from loosing the application.

    MORE IMPORTANTLY, AGAIN you are citing legal mumbo jumbo. OS2.0 is not out even yet, and what you are citing is legal protections that all software and hardware developers use. This is not different than Windows. Just knock it off. You HAVE no proof of anything. These legal terms are used by everyone to protect their software and the ability of their software to run smooth. And to protect them if someone messes with there software those people are on there own.


    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    The point is that its unauthorized, used a vulnerability in the phone, and could and would therefore be targetted by Apple for closure at any time.



    So if he's not afraid to break people's phones, why would it worry him to disable exchange activesync until you proof of an authorized plan? He already disables the phone until you have proof of a plan, something no other GSM company does.

    Surur
    So. Windows does this all the time with their Windows Validation Tools. And if you are caught using an invalid key, your computer rights and privileges will be removed until you can prove your key is valid or get a new one. Just cuz Apple is taking this type of protection from the PC to the phone is to be expected. If you follow the rules you'll be safe. If you break the rules you'll be punished.

    So what is your point. Apple does it, Windows does it. So what. Just quit your Apple-bashing and move on. If you don't like it, fine. But again, there is no need to be pushing your agenda with your scare tactics. Apples-Windows....they all use the same legal language and they all use they same type of 'you will be punished if you do illegal things' methods.

    I just don't understand how you can be so one-sided. Companies are all the similar in that they want to protect their products from hackers and pirates...What's your point?. I'm a Windows man through and through, but I'm going to get an iPhone and I am going to like it.
  16. #36  
    Furthermore in the link you posted it says that Apple can disable applications it feels are bad....but it doesn't say that it will disable them on the phone, they may just be talking about the app store.

    But my point is pointless, because, like I said, everyone does it.

    Now can't we just get back to the topic at hand?

    What do you know about AT&T's data plan pricing?

    Oh that's right, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING....just angry-Apple-hating opinions.
  17.    #37  
    I'm going to get an iPhone and I am going to like it.
    Ok Hotrod, you obviously want to believe.

    Surur
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Ok Hotrod, you obviously want to believe.

    Surur
    We are way off topic now, but I guess we will see next friday if Surur is right about Apple disabling Exchange features without the appropriate At&t plan. I'm betting on Surur being wrong.
    Last edited by mobileman; 07/03/2008 at 11:15 AM.
  19. #39  
    Exchange won't require the $45 plan.

    Next question.
  20.    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    Exchange won't require the $45 plan.

    Next question.
    Can Apple disable 3rd apps already installed?

    Surur
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