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  1.    #1  
    In the wake of Adobe lifting restrictions of .flv playback software, CoreCodec has announced that that they will be releasing a Coreplayer soon that will play .flv files.

    CorePlayer to be Released with 'Flash' Container Support
    on: May 02, 2008, 04:42:56 PM

    As many of you know internally here for a long time we have supported the Adobe Flash Container (FLV). Now that Adobe has taken a great step in opening up the specs for all to include. We will finally be releasing the entire CorePlayer Platform to support FLV in our next release.

    Now the spec has many new things we need to add and change to the current code. So some other things to note:

    - We will not support SWF at first.
    - We will support SWF support at a later date.
    - We will not support ON2's VP3 or VP6 Video within the Flash Container
    - We will support Audio: MP3, AAC, PCM... Video: H.263, AVC
    - We will be releasing our own runtime at a later date for SWF... and NOT the runtime that Adobe will be releasing.
    - We will only initially be releasing FLV Container support.... IE; it will play FLV files... not embedded videos.

    Can/will any of this change? Maybe... we are still reading inbetween the lines but legal has given us a go ahead, so ;-)

    Look for an announcement of the release date.
    http://www.corecodec.com/forums/index.php?topic=984.0

    The significance of this is of course that YouTube will now remain a easy source for internet video that can be played off-line, and hopefully in a media player with a good UI.

    Surur
  2. #2  
    We really need to start concentrating video formats like MP3 has done for audio. Right now, with all the different containers, from AVI to MKV to WMV to MOV and it just goes on, never mind the codec... It looks like MP4 H.264 might be gaining momentum, but some standardization really has to follow...
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  3. #3  
    We will only initially be releasing FLV Container support.... IE; it will play FLV files... not embedded videos.
    So.. no youtube support??
  4.    #4  
    Core player already supports playing youtube video, much like the youtube player on the iPhone. Whats new about this development is that it will now play saved .flv files, such as can be gotten by using a service like keepvid.com.

    How this is useful is that you can now use youtube or myspace or whatever as a source of free music videos for example, and not have issuesw ith buffering or signal coverage.

    Surur
  5. #5  
    It's seems like basically trying to be VLC or Mplayer for mobiles (why is there no VLC or Mplayer for mobiles, FOSSies?)

    While it's all nice and good to have these codec-supporting, container-chewing beasties around, it highlights again the format fragmentation.

    I spent the weekend in utter frustration with a friend trying to convert video to play off an Xbox 360. Like most consoles, including PS3 and Apple TV, they support such narrow ranges of container + codec (audio / video) that it becomes basically a game of chicken. WMV with VC1 but not ACC unless it's Tuesday and you spit twice and spin around until you die.

    Stuff like Visual Hub can remove a lot of heavy lifting, but it really shouldn't have to.

    I'm sure the consoles do it for DRM-like reasons ("You people shouldn't have 5.1 sources to begin with, unless you stole them from us, so we're going to make you pull your hair out in payment!" -- never mind that new 1080p video you shot and mixed into multi-channel is just sitting there getting screwed over!).

    But there needs to be some shakeout and I'm betting on MP4 H.264 with AC3, and maybe a lossless audio for the 3 audiophiles who can really hear the difference but can't play their own instruments enough to just consider everything non-live to be cr@p anyway...
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  6.    #6  
    You are pretty delusional. Content, not quality is king. Just look at youtube.

    Surur
  7. #7  
    Not sure what name calling has to do with video, but no, content certainly isn't king any more than quality. Delivery is king. If people can't play your content, regardless of quality, it won't matter. And delivery (the simplicity of it) is where standardization is key, just like NTSC, just like MP3...
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  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rene Ritchie View Post
    Not sure what name calling has to do with video, but no, content certainly isn't king any more than quality. Delivery is king. If people can't play your content, regardless of quality, it won't matter. And delivery (the simplicity of it) is where standardization is key, just like NTSC, just like MP3...
    Are you suggesting easy expensive delivery beats free, slightly more difficult acquisition? See, thats why I am calling you delusional.

    Surur
  9. #9  
    What automatically makes easy expensive? MP3 is easy and inexpensive. You can find them just about anywhere, from free to $0.99, and they will play on just about any device from an iPod to a Zune to a Sansa to a dollar-store knock off.

    I'm hoping video goes the same way.

    And in that context, as I understand there are no video formats, nothing in this universe upon which codecs may be contained, I accept the delusional -- for there is no me either

    Sixth Patriarch that!
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  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rene Ritchie View Post
    What automatically makes easy expensive? MP3 is easy and inexpensive. You can find them just about anywhere, from free to $0.99, and they will play on just about any device from an iPod to a Zune to a Sansa to a dollar-store knock off.

    I'm hoping video goes the same way.

    And in that context, as I understand there are no video formats, nothing in this universe upon which codecs may be contained, I accept the delusional -- for there is no me either

    Sixth Patriarch that!
    Rene, you are pretty transparent. You are obviously talking about the Itunes store "easy delivery mechanism".

    MP3 is in fact a counter-example of how delivery is important in setting a standard. MP3 became a standard because of the content available for it.

    Surur
  11. #11  
    iTunes store doesn't use MP3, it uses AAC, which is MP3's titular next-gen replacement, but which hasn't become anywhere near as widely accepted, which pretty much goes to the point of my discussion (and why I use MP3 on my iPhone and not AAC).

    Content is available by the ton for AAC (iTunes) and WMA (PlaysForSure/PlaysNoMore), but only MP3 provides easy consumer (Amazon) and pirate (JAR!) delivery: You download and play, not ifs ands or buts.

    Right now, with video, you download, find out your player of choice doesn't support what you downloaded, get a new player, find out it doesn't have that codec, find the codec, find out it doesn't support that codec when combined with the audio codec, desperately search for a converter that will just "make it work"...

    It may not be a big deal if you stick blindly to one ecosystem (i.e. Windows, Media Center, Xbox, Zune, or iTunes, iPhone, Apple TV, or PS3, Walkman, whatever), but any time you try to mix and match, you suffer. Anytime you get a video (even a home video!) from a friend or free source, you suffer.

    Bottom line, I can drop an MP3 into any music player, I can't do that with video yet.

    (Transparent as a mirror, it unfortunately seems...)
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  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rene Ritchie View Post
    iTunes store doesn't use MP3, it uses AAC, which is MP3's titular next-gen replacement, but which hasn't become anywhere near as widely accepted, which pretty much goes to the point of my discussion (and why I use MP3 on my iPhone and not AAC).

    Content is available by the ton for AAC (iTunes) and WMA (PlaysForSure/PlaysNoMore), but only MP3 provides easy consumer (Amazon) and pirate (JAR!) delivery: You download and play, not ifs ands or buts.

    Right now, with video, you download, find out your player of choice doesn't support what you downloaded, get a new player, find out it doesn't have that codec, find the codec, find out it doesn't support that codec when combined with the audio codec, desperately search for a converter that will just "make it work"...

    It may not be a big deal if you stick blindly to one ecosystem (i.e. Windows, Media Center, Xbox, Zune, or iTunes, iPhone, Apple TV, or PS3, Walkman, whatever), but any time you try to mix and match, you suffer. Anytime you get a video (even a home video!) from a friend or free source, you suffer.

    Bottom line, I can drop an MP3 into any music player, I can't do that with video yet.

    (Transparent as a mirror, it unfortunately seems...)
    Do you miss the point on purpose, or do you just not get it.

    mp3 became popular due to cheap or free content. Your fantasy Apple adopted h264 wont get popular if the content is not cheap or free, no matter how easy your "delivery mechanisms".

    Devices develop to support the standard, not the other way around. Do you actually get that, or are you too far up Job's proverbial?

    Surur
  13. #13  
    I'm not sure what you think personal attacks do to further your arguments?

    And I'm not sure what Apple has to do with H.264, as that format is and ISO standard supported by Sony, Microsoft, Adobe, and a host of others. This might help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264

    If it makes it easier to follow, imagine JPG. Pretty much every camera can output JPG. Pretty much every browser and OS can easily display JPG. Pretty much every bitmap editor can read and write JPG. This gives JPG pretty much a zero barrier of entry, and while there are many other formats, from GIF to PNG to proprietary RAW and specific PSD, CAD, and other formats, delivery favors JPG, just as it favors MP3, and just as I'm hoping one day a clear video format will emerge (maybe MP4, maybe not, though MP4 being a cross-platform standard and not a proprietary locking like WMV/VC1 certainly helps).

    Maybe I'm still not explaining this well. Perhaps Windows champion, iPhone lover, and H.264 chooser Paul Thurrot can help me out:

    http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/dm_core_video.asp
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  14.    #14  
    Again, Rene, you are pretty transparent. You would not be so much in favour of a global standard if it was one that Apple did not support.

    Was it you who wrote that you are glad Apple did not support animated gifs on the iPhone? Why yes it was.

    You only love de facto standards if Apple also supports them, else, like flash video, you hate them. MP3 is a de facto standard BTW.

    Surur
  15. #15  
    Do I still beat my wife is the classic example of a leading question. Since Apple supports global standards, liking global standards must have something to do with liking Apple. Post Hoc Ergo Proctor whatever, right?

    Unfortunately, not.

    As a developer who's had to deal with animated GIFs, deals with Flash on a daily basis, and a creator and consumer who wants to make sure what I create and buy today will be usable on a multitude of platforms for a while to come, it's Apple of all things that's motivating my desire for a more standardized video standard?

    LOL! Transparent as a funhouse mirror now.
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  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rene Ritchie View Post
    Do I still beat my wife is the classic example of a leading question. Since Apple supports global standards, liking global standards must have something to do with liking Apple. Post Hoc Ergo Proctor whatever, right?

    Unfortunately, not.

    As a developer who's had to deal with animated GIFs, deals with Flash on a daily basis, and a creator and consumer who wants to make sure what I create and buy today will be usable on a multitude of platforms for a while to come, it's Apple of all things that's motivating my desire for a more standardized video standard?

    LOL! Transparent as a funhouse mirror now.
    So you only like standards if its standards you like? Nice.

    Flash is a de facto standard. You will just have to eat it. If you were not a hypocrite, instead of complaining about flash you should be pressuring hold-outs like Apple to support it.

    Surur
  17. #17  
    Flash concerns me in two ways:

    1) It's proprietary (though Friday's Open Screen lessens that to some extent) and not an ISO standard.

    2) They're handling of cookies approaches the unethical.

    Neither of those things applies to JPG, MP3, or MP4.

    SVG failed to get any traction, Silverlight and Quicktime have the same proprietary problems as Flash, and HTML5 and CSS Animation may or may not provide some of the functionality, but not all.

    #2 will be a far harder problem to reconcile, however.
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  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rene Ritchie View Post
    Flash concerns me in two ways:

    1) It's proprietary (though Friday's Open Screen lessens that to some extent) and not an ISO standard.

    2) They're handling of cookies approaches the unethical.

    Neither of those things applies to JPG, MP3, or MP4.

    SVG failed to get any traction, Silverlight and Quicktime have the same proprietary problems as Flash, and HTML5 and CSS Animation may or may not provide some of the functionality, but not all.

    #2 will be a far harder problem to reconcile, however.
    Thats all irrelevant, because Flash solved your compatibility problem, by allowing video to work in a very heterogeneous, the internet, and has wide compatibility. MP3 is also proprietary, but you praised it. Flash is the same thing, and serves it's purpose very well.

    As I said, I's sure you would have a damascene conversion if Apple suddenly decided to support flash on the iPhone.

    Surur
  19. #19  
    Flash is different in kind to MP3, JPG, and standard file formats. Have you worked much with it? If you let me know your level of Flash knowledge, perhaps I can better taylor an explanation.

    (Apple already supports Flash, or vice versa, on the Mac, so Apple support, though an interesting Artie MacStrawman distraction, remains extraneous to the argument).
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  20.    #20  
    This thread is about flash video support on mobile devices, which Apple and you appose.

    Your "standards" argument is the real strawman. And we all know why Apple does not support flash on the iPhone - they do not want an uncontrolled powerful programming environment.

    Surur
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