Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 59
  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Thats because every app which the other platforms had for ages would be met with wonderment and fanfare on the iPhone platform.

    When a GPS app comes along, it would be like people could find themselves for the first time (just like people thought google maps was amazing when it was already present on the other platforms).

    When they finally get VOIP, the blogs and analysts will announce the end of the telcom business model.

    Everything old is new again. Its rather pathetic.

    And re traffic ranking - maybe posting about VGA screens is more interesting to readers that the colour of the back of new iPhone.

    Surur
    No, it's because:

    1) the development environment and SDK are superior in many respects to any other mobile SDK (maybe not symbian - i know nothing about that one) including easy support for multimedia, animation, GPS, sql, xml, web, etc. Whatever you want to believe about WM, its api's are nowhere near this feature rich. (and don't give me your backgrounding apps stock answer; there will be backgrounding apps).
    2) the device has a unique combination of sensors for input, and a display that is among the best available on such a device.
    3) iphone has HIGs that, in combination with the fact that many iphone developers are mac developers, will lead to well thought out user experiences.

    If Apple finally sees the light and opens up the dock connector and bluetooth, it will be all over for everyone else, at least as far as app quality goes.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    If Apple finally sees the light and opens up the dock connector and bluetooth, it will be all over for everyone else, at least as far as app quality goes.
    So no quality apps for anyone else?

    Do you really believe old "1% of the market" iPhone is going to make it "all over for everyone else"?

    Surur
  3. #23  
    "all over for everyone else" means:

    1) WM development will, in a few years, be where palm development is now
    2) I assume we agree on where palm development will be
    3) again, i know nothing about symbian
    4) misc. linux-based phones will have gotten nowhere due to too much fragmentation
    5) android: big question mark. Depends on what they do as far as push email, etc.
    6) RIM: again, depends on whether they adapt; they still have time to do so, and have shown signs of doing so, but their java-based environment won't cut it long term.

    Platforms die. SDK's die. Languages die. It's the way of things. Palm is done. WM is next. MS has shown no sign yet that it even understands why it's in trouble, though they give lipservice to the general idea that they need to make improvements.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    "all over for everyone else" means:

    1) WM development will, in a few years, be where palm development is now
    2) I assume we agree on where palm development will be
    3) again, i know nothing about symbian
    4) misc. linux-based phones will have gotten nowhere due to too much fragmentation
    5) android: big question mark. Depends on what they do as far as push email, etc.
    6) RIM: again, depends on whether they adapt; they still have time to do so, and have shown signs of doing so, but their java-based environment won't cut it long term.

    Platforms die. SDK's die. Languages die. It's the way of things. Palm is done. WM is next. MS has shown no sign yet that it even understands why it's in trouble, though they give lipservice to the general idea that they need to make improvements.
    Channelling Archie, are you? Unlike Garnet, WM is not a static platform, and is well supported by many companies who plan to make a lot of money of it, e.g. Asus who said they expect to make 10% of their revenue of WM phones in a few years, or Sony Erricson who turned to WM to increase their market share.

    Do you really expect these companies to just roll over and die, especially when they cant just take part in the iPhone market by licensing the OS?

    HTC's new phones, with slim design, VGA screens, graphic accelerators and accelerometers show they are not just going to sit there and let "unique combination of sensors for input, and a display that is among the best available on such a device" steal their market share.

    Surur
  5. #25  
    WM is not a static platform, but it's a giant pile of cruft at this point. It needs to be ripped up and redone from scratch.

    As for roll over and die, yes. I do expect it. Just like Palm did. I expect HTC and others will switch over to android or to whatever the next big thing is. These companies aren't married to MS. Sony used to be a palm licensee. So did samsung. Things change. Companies act in their own self-interest, not in microsoft's.

    I agree that VGA is better (assuming good brightness, contrast, etc.) No argument there. However I've yet to see a phone where the accelerometer API is as complete and flexible as it is on the iphone. Apparently the iphone also has exclusive access to a unique graphic accelerator from Samsung, though I know little beyond what the press reported yesterday. In any event, OpenGL is built in to iphone, and I haven't seen anything quite that nice on WM.
  6. #26  
    HTC's new phones, with slim design, VGA screens, graphic accelerators and accelerometers show they are not just going to sit there and let "unique combination of sensors for input, and a display that is among the best available on such a device" steal their market share.
    Nope, they're gonna try and copy iPhone 1.0 like everyone else. Where was that device 2 years ago? Oh, that's right, being finalized by Jobs and Ive's. The industry should really pay Apple licensing fees for their taste.

    And Namaste to you, si, for the awesome visual of Microsoft and HTC both desperately trying to build separate sides of a bridge to iPhone competitiveness, blissfully unaware that never shall the two meet properly in the middle. Still, beta by 2010, RM by 2013, and Service Pack 1 by 2015. Given 17 years, and iPhone 1.0 will be in for a heap 'o trouble!

    (Hopefully 16-bit legacy API's will be phased out by then -- in different ways by every department, 'natch -- lucky developers!)
    Editor-in-chief, iMore
    Executive producer, Mobile Nations
    Co-host, Iterate, Debug, ZEN & TECH, Ad hoc, MacBreak Weekly
    Cook, grappler, photon wrangler.

    http://www.imore.com
    http://www.mobilenations.com
    http://twitter.com/reneritchie
  7. #27  
    I haven't seen anything quite that nice on WM
    Direct X 8 for WinVistaZuneMob will be announced at CES 2009. And 2010. (Will go without mention in 2011 and end up Cairo-esque footnote in Wikipedia thereafter).
    Editor-in-chief, iMore
    Executive producer, Mobile Nations
    Co-host, Iterate, Debug, ZEN & TECH, Ad hoc, MacBreak Weekly
    Cook, grappler, photon wrangler.

    http://www.imore.com
    http://www.mobilenations.com
    http://twitter.com/reneritchie
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    WM is not a static platform, but it's a giant pile of cruft at this point. It needs to be ripped up and redone from scratch.
    Funny you say that, as the next WM is going to be built on the Win CE 6 kernel, which is a full rewrite and already out in the market.

    As for roll over and die, yes. I do expect it. Just like Palm did. I expect HTC and others will switch over to android or to whatever the next big thing is. These companies aren't married to MS. Sony used to be a palm licensee. So did samsung. Things change. Companies act in their own self-interest, not in microsoft's.
    You are quite missing the point, which is that these companies do not quite share your view of the future of WM? Maybe you are very very wrong?

    I agree that VGA is better (assuming good brightness, contrast, etc.) No argument there. However I've yet to see a phone where the accelerometer API is as complete and flexible as it is on the iphone. Apparently the iphone also has exclusive access to a unique graphic accelerator from Samsung, though I know little beyond what the press reported yesterday. In any event, OpenGL is built in to iphone, and I haven't seen anything quite that nice on WM.
    I have not seen anything revolutionary suggested for the iPhone accelerometer which has not already been implemented on the Nokia N95, without an API. Maybe your perfect OSX API is not as important as you think, and not really essential for turning your $600 phone into a pedometer or light saber.

    When talking about your fantasy iPhone future, maybe you should stop comparing it to last years WM devices.

    Surur
  9. #29  
    WM is lots of fun to program. Call a function once to find out how big a buffer you need to allocate. Call it again and pass it the pointer to the buffer you allocate. Remember to free the buffer.

    Except that sometimes you just pass it a pointer and it allocates it.

    Except that sometimes you don't have to pass it a pointer.

    It's fun, really.

    ps: Surur, it still behaves this way in WM6, so don't give me your "rewrite" nonsense. Until they get rid of all the crappy old sdks and move to the 21st century, it's a heaping pile of crap.
  10. #30  
    @Crackberry Kevin:

    Drool. Nuclear projector uber-device will make espresso too!

    Apple pushing RIM pushing Apple is also the best thing for consumers. Before Blackberry, business development was stagnant. Before Apple, UE and media was going nowhere. Now everyone is upping their game, from WinVistaMob 7 to Palm Nova to Android.

    I'm not stuck on any brand. If another company out-innovates Apple to better fit my needs, Apple has only until my next buying cycle to respond. Loyalty needs to flow from corp to consumer, not the other way around. We pay (and pay!) them, after all. They're not paying us.

    Here's to an embarrassment of next-gen riches!
    Editor-in-chief, iMore
    Executive producer, Mobile Nations
    Co-host, Iterate, Debug, ZEN & TECH, Ad hoc, MacBreak Weekly
    Cook, grappler, photon wrangler.

    http://www.imore.com
    http://www.mobilenations.com
    http://twitter.com/reneritchie
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    ps: Surur, it still behaves this way in WM6, so don't give me your "rewrite" nonsense. Until they get rid of all the crappy old sdks and move to the 21st century, it's a heaping pile of crap.
    Win CE 6. Know what you are talking about.

    Surur
  12. #32  
    Call it whatever you want. According to the docs on my msdn disk, the sdk still has all the same goofy and inconsistent calling conventions. The new additions may be consistent with each other, but they differ from the old stuff. (and a lot of old stuff is still there)

    Update: i just spent a few minutes poking around the API's. Other than adding more new and inconsistent stuff, most of the changes were apparently in the kernel (or, at least, below the user layer). All the same old junk seems to be there.
    Last edited by cmaier; 05/02/2008 at 04:05 PM.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    Call it whatever you want. According to the docs on my msdn disk, the sdk still has all the same goofy and inconsistent calling conventions. The new additions may be consistent with each other, but they differ from the old stuff. (and a lot of old stuff is still there)
    But does it matter? You are making a rather large thing of something which has not stopped the platform from being considered to be very easy to develop for, and has had a plethora of software firsts, such as SlingBox and Skype.

    Even Google Gears came to WM first.

    Surur
    Last edited by surur; 05/02/2008 at 04:15 PM.
  14. #34  
    People develop for it because it has market share, not because it is easy. They can also leverage a certain amount of their understanding of windows programming.

    Now iphone (and we'll see about android) have new, modern, consistent API's that make it very simple to write high-quality code that results in programs with amazing functionality and good looks. They also (we'll see about android) have decent marketshare and, in iphone's case, a low-barrier-to-entry distribution model. Some of the most talented developers will move over to iphone. Some people who never bothered to write code for mobiles are moving over too. Over time, the trickle becomes a flood.

    You act like it never happened before, and that current success assures future success. Palm used to own the market, and had far more software, much nicer, than WM (or Win CE or PalmPC or PocketPC or whatever you want to call that family of stuff).

    At first WM had no market share, but lots of developers (including me) moved over because we could accomplish more with less effort. The snowball kept rolling down hill and it became ginormous.

    Once a few "killer apps" show up on iphone, the floodgates break open. And in 5-10 years, if apple doesn't keep up, it will be someone else.

    And you make my point for me: slingbox on palm was a royal pain to write because palm offers essentially no support for encryption, video, and only crappy outdated support for networking. WM is much better at all three of these things. Hence it arrived first.

    Iphone's SDK makes WM's SDK look like palm's SDK.
  15. RobM's Avatar
    Posts
    477 Posts
    Global Posts
    478 Global Posts
    #35  
    I think the fact that apple came out with a device to compete against the BB is great. I myself use a BB...but I am not opposed to using an iphone...I just have not as of yet. It is nice that there is a company that will keep RIM competitive and drive the market to better and better products...use what you like!
    Looking for Tampa Real Estate
    Tampa Homes | Tampa Foreclosures | Brandon Real Estate
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    People develop for it because it has market share, not because it is easy. They can also leverage a certain amount of their understanding of windows programming.
    Symbian has by far the biggest market share. Maybe people develop based on the willingness of the market to buy 3rd party software.


    in iphone's case, a low-barrier-to-entry distribution model.
    You are joking, right? The iPhone has the biggest barrier of any mobile OS. Did you actually say that with a straight face.


    And you make my point for me: slingbox on palm was a royal pain to write because palm offers essentially no support for encryption, video, and only crappy outdated support for networking. WM is much better at all three of these things. Hence it arrived first.

    Iphone's SDK makes WM's SDK look like palm's SDK.
    You speak as if destiny has spoken. Do you hear voices?

    Surur
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Symbian has by far the biggest market share. Maybe people develop based on the willingness of the market to buy 3rd party software.




    You are joking, right? The iPhone has the biggest barrier of any mobile OS. Did you actually say that with a straight face.




    You speak as if destiny has spoken. Do you hear voices?

    Surur
    The barrier to entry is by far the lowest. Yeah, I have to pay $99 and a cut, but I don't have to package the stuff up, go find a distributor or set up my own web site and pay for bandwidth, handle licensing issues, etc. A lot of people who wouldn't even know where to start in terms of selling WM or palm software will fork over $99 and click a button and be in business.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    The barrier to entry is by far the lowest. Yeah, I have to pay $99 and a cut, but I don't have to package the stuff up, go find a distributor or set up my own web site and pay for bandwidth, handle licensing issues, etc. A lot of people who wouldn't even know where to start in terms of selling WM or palm software will fork over $99 and click a button and be in business.
    You seem to have forgotten about having to meet Apple's capricious criteria for acceptability.

    Conveniently forgotten that is.

    Surur
  19. #39  
    Oh stop it. No one knows how that will actually work. So far, it seems that if the code compiles and links without linking against the private frameworks, they'll accept it. (That is, for the stuff they won't allow, they have provided no API).

    If the appstore goes live and they won't accept the 6 programs I have ready to go, then i'll join you with the torches and pitchforks. Hell, I was even accepted to the developer program, which proves they aren't too choosy :-)
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    Oh stop it. No one knows how that will actually work.
    What you cant read? The criteria are clear, and the restrictions real. Pretending this huge flaw is not real is pretty disingenuous.

    Surur
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions