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  1. #121  
    yardie wrote:
    It seems to me that a lot fo people are quite happy with their Black and White units. I love my Prism and I love color but there is still nothing compelling out there that make owning a color Palm a "must".


    It's not a must, but a shift in supply is creating a shift in demand. We're witnessing the same transition that occured with photographs, PCs and TVs. As more color PDAs are demoed at CompUSA or Fry's, the more the B&W units compare unfavorably, and as the price drops on color units, the more motivation people have to buy them. Nobody "needs" a color TV, but the more people saw them, the more they prefered them to B&Ws. This is why Sony completely underestimated the US demand for color with its first Clié. If it had been released 18 months earlier, the company would've been right.

    The most practical advantage of color is true black-on-white text, not "color" per se. For text, even bad contrast on a color screen, like the m505, is better than the contrast on a mono screen.
  2. #122  
    i think the one and only killer-application for a color handheld are maps! and for that purpose, 256 colors are probably even enough. other than that, it's probably nice to have but...
    of course, the game-, video- and picture-crowd "needs" color too but i never quite understood what is so compelling about looking at pictures and especially videos on such a small screen. No flames, please! if you love to play games or show off family pictures on your m505, clie, whatsover, please feel free to do so. after all, it increases the market demand for color handhelds and helps to bring down the price
  3. #123  
    In my opinion, I believe that if you are a heavy PDA user, and like to carry your device everywhere (even to dates ) You might want to your life to be colorul. After all, we see in colors, Ok, there might be some people that wouldn't care less if they see life in Color or B/W, but come on people deep down inside, you feel the need of colors.

    I used to be a VDX user, and I was really happy with my PDA; for a while. Then, the Prism came out. My life changed, now I can't go back to B/W. Whenever I see a B/W device I looked at it as if it where a cheap unit, all cold with no life, and nothing makes me feel excited.

    Therefore, I hope Handspring comes out with a nice 320x320 slim 16 bit Color PDA with a much better design than the Edge. I guess that will be when they feel ready, I don't think we should rush them to release a unit that we'll all have to send it back for a new one. They probably know by now, that they lose a lot of money when they release units with bugs or case problems.

    Handspring take your time and let us know when you are 100% ready rock our geek world.


    Al
  4. #124  
    Originally posted by slotmachine
    Oh well, I'm not wating till Aug or Sept. anyway. I'm either going 505 or 710 for good in the next few days.
    Which way did you go? I am about to order an m505 from Dell.com (they have a 20% OFF deal going on now which is AWESOME)
  5. #125  
    patwoods, I didn't see anything about 20% off. Where did you find a discount @Dell.com?
    <><
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    #126  
    I purchased the m505 from Dell.com last night...$359 and some change. This was just too good to pass up at that price. There's a coupon link at the following address:

    http://www.hotdealz.com/InternetHotDeals.shtml
  7.    #127  
    Originally posted by patwoods


    Which way did you go? I am about to order an m505 from Dell.com (they have a 20% OFF deal going on now which is AWESOME)
    Picking up the CLIE to try out tonight!
    That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you.
  8. #128  
    Well slotmachine, I looked a PEG...PIG...whatever 710C last night and really liked the screen. However, the guys/gals over at handerazone, and pdabuzz are convincing me that the HE330 is really the way that I want to go.

    BTW: I noticed that the Clie case was already pretty scuffed up at the Best Buy that I saw the unit at.

    Happy hunting.
    <><
  9. #129  
    Originally posted by slotmachine

    Picking up the CLIE to try out tonight!
    Good luck. Hope its a good experience as well.
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
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    #130  
    I just can't see the fuss over these units. The screen on the Clie color model has very fine resolution, yes, but the colors are washed out. At PC Expo, I pulled out my Prism, beemed a photo over both ways and even the Sony guy had to admit that the Prism looked better despite the finer resolution on the Clie.
    Wednesday night I went to the Microsoft Pocket PC Fan Fest. You needed a Pocket PC to register and get in. (Yes, I have one, but never use it). Even the heralded iPaq screen colors looked washed out next to my Prism. As for the 505, well that looks both dull and washed out.

    I am a firm believer in everyone getting the PDA that's most appealing and right for them. There are valid reasons why someone might want, say an iPaq, over a Palm OS PDA. There's even a few (well I think there might be a few) reasons why a 505 might be a better choice for some -- but when it comes to screen quality and brightness, the Prism has no peer.
    -Michael-
  11. #131  
    There are a couple things that I feel would benefit me more with the Clie than with my Prism.

    1) While I do love the screen on my Prism, I love the resolution of the Clie. Even more so, I love the ability to view it outdoors. While I am sure that HS will have a competitive product, if it carries a slim design like the Edge, my MemPlug becomes an inconvenience to carry.

    2) While I love my MemPlug, I also love the fact that the Sony has built in Memory Expansion. While it may be the Memory Stick, this is a feature I do not see HS adding at all in the future. If they create a Memory slot on their new handheld they would ruin the future of their business partners like Portable Innovation.

    My biggest concern is while HS has been trying to be everything to everyone, they have really boxed themselves into a corner. How much can they really incorporate into their PDA without killing off the business of Module makers. Each module out there represents one more feature that will never be included in the Visor itself. In addition, Form Factor is extremely limited due to the size of the modules. As more memory becomes important, carrying around an Edge (color or not), with the adaptor and the Memplug seems a lot more troublesome than a Clie with a Memory Stick.

    I really hope HS has answers for all of this, but in the meantime, I keep thinking about the Clie. If only to be able to view it outdoors.
    In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. JOHN 14:2
  12. #132  
    GSR13 wrote:
    Even more so, I love the ability to view it outdoors.


    I'm genuinely curious: do you really find the Prism impossible to use outdoors, and more importantly, how much to you use it outdoors? I've never been in a situation where I've had to view the Prism outdoors extensively enough for this to be an issue, except when taking pictures. And when I'm composing pictures on the Prism outside (needless to say, I've taken plenty), I just shade the screen with my hand. I'll admit, I was shocked the first day I looked at a virtually black screen outdoors, but with a combination of angling the screen away from the sun and hand shading, I don't even think about it anymore.

    While I love my MemPlug, I also love the fact that the Sony has built in Memory Expansion. While it may be the Memory Stick, this is a feature I do not see HS adding at all in the future. If they create a Memory slot on their new handheld they would ruin the future of their business partners like Portable Innovation.

    First of all, Handspring devices do have built-in memory expansion: the Springboard slot, which accomodates Flash modules -- conceptually no different than the Memory Stick. At this point the Springboard can handle more than memory expansion, where the MS is currently limited to only memory expansion. And as I've mentioned elsewhere, the small form factor of the MS makes Sony's conceptual I/O sticks dubious. The only advantage I see for a memory-centric expansion solution like the MemStick is for MP3, since the Clié has built-in support for it. I've played with a Clié a couple of times, and actually do like it. There are a number of reasons I would get it, but expansion isn't one of them. I expect most or all I/O expansion on the Clié to occur through the cradle port. I do not expect Handspring to create a second slot for memory.

    My biggest concern is while HS has been trying to be everything to everyone, they have really boxed themselves into a corner. How much can they really incorporate into their PDA without killing off the business of Module makers. Each module out there represents one more feature that will never be included in the Visor itself.

    That was the point. Jeff Hawkins said he was tired of being descended on by dozens of users every week, each with one different feature that "everyone" was supposed to want. Some people think wireless is essential, or MP3, or voice recording; but everyone pays the cost if they're integrated into one unit, which risks pricing the company's Shiny New Thing out of the market.

    Incidentally, the Edge has a vibrating alarm, for which there is a module.

    In addition, Form Factor is extremely limited due to the size of the modules.

    True. It's the price you pay for expandibility that's not limited to memory.

    As more memory becomes important, carrying around an Edge (color or not), with the adaptor and the Memplug seems a lot more troublesome than a Clie with a Memory Stick.

    A little bigger, but not more troublesome if they're actually attached. And Memory Sticks are much more expensive than the CF or SM cards available for the MemPlug. I can get a 128MB CF card with shipping for $10 less than the cheapest 64MB MemStick without shipping. At any rate, I prefer the Prism to the Edge, at least until a color Edge is announced.
  13. #133  
    Originally posted by Gameboy70
    At any rate, I prefer the Prism to the Edge, at least until a color Edge is announced.
    Just curious: do you prefer the Prism form factor to the Edge, all other things being equal?

    I really like the Palm III/Visor form factor, and find the smaller Edge/m505/Clie size less appealing (though the Edge's design continues to grow on me (but then I hate the SpringBoard sled...))

    Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who feels that Hawkin's original PDA prototype size was on the money.
    Jeff Meyer

    "And he died like he lived: with his mouth wide open."
  14. #134  
    bookrats wrote:
    Just curious: do you prefer the Prism form factor to the Edge, all other things being equal?


    One's bad, the other's worse. The Prism's too bulky. The Edge has tacky plastic rim, a frontally flat face, and an unforgivable external stylus clip. But the Edge wins on pocketability: it's thin and has a metal flip cover, so you can actually put the Edge in your back pocket, which even the V/m50x series can't boast.

    I really like the Palm III/Visor form factor, and find the smaller Edge/m505/Clie size less appealing (though the Edge's design continues to grow on me (but then I hate the SpringBoard sled...))

    I was disappointed to see Palm discontinue the III form factor. The Palm III was my first Palm OS handheld, and I much prefer it over the m10x form factor.
  15. #135  
    To GameBoy70:

    First, when it comes to viewing my PDA outdoors. I never would have dreamed that I would use a PDA outdoors that often, and still do not. The main reason is I cannot see it. I am constantly trying to use my Prism outside, but it is just hopeless. For instance, I use my Prism to track mileage. I will go different routes from the office to my home in an effort to determine which is shorter or which is faster. I plug this information in Prism. Or I will take down directions straight into my Prism and then want to view them in the car. On a bright day it is almost impossible. Yes, I can change the brightness and angle at which the screen is viewed. I can also shade the screen and will eventually be able to see. But it would be awesome to be able to view it as well outdoors as it is indoors.

    Please let me say that I appreciate your points. They were well taken. I will not attempt to respond to each of your points individually, but as a whole. In this, I hope to clarify my original post a bit more.

    When I referred to the Clie as having built in Memory Expansion I was not trying to say that HS does not. My point was, I doubt you will ever see a SmartMedia Slot, MMC Slot, or SD slot on a HS device and still see the SpringBoard. So, you will never have the Edge form factor and the ability to expand the memory without compromising the form factor.

    As for HS and their trying to be all things to all people. I understand what HS wanted to do originally and I believe it is a novel idea. Basically the Visor is the foundation and the SpringBoard slot gives people the ability to take it where they want. However, as convergence increases, I believe people will start to purchase PDA's that have certain things built in to them. As an example, the Clie has built in MP3. While this may not be groundbreaking, it is one less thing a person would have to buy later on. Give me a Prism with built in MP3 or a Prism and an MP3 module and I will take the former. It is cheaper and still leaves room for memory expansion. My point is, I never see HS offering a PDA with built in MP3 because that would take away the need for GOOD Technology and other MP3 module makers.

    As for Form Factor. Here is my concern. Since the Edge came out people have been saying, give me an Edge with a Color Reflective screen. While this would be nice, now I would need an adaptor for my Springboard modules. This makes leaving the MemPlug in 100% of the time almost impossible. The unit would just be to cumbersome and a case like the EB Slipper would not work with the adaptor on. With other modules, it is not that big of a deal, but with memory expansion I would like it in all the time.

    True, Memory Sticks are expensive. But just like everything else. As it becomes used more and more the price will continue to drop. Particularly once more manufacturers begin making it.

    I just wish Handspring would take the Deluxe form factor or even the Prism form factor and put a reflective screen in it. That would really make me a happy guy. Then I would have the Springboard slot and the ability to view it outdoors. Or, give me an Edge with a color reflective screen and a built in memory slot for SmartMedia or SD, or something like that. My concern is, I do not see HS doing either of the above.

    I am sure that HS will figure out a way to make most people happy. I have no doubt they are probably the most innovative and forward thinking manufacturer out there. But as folks like Sony continue to push the envelope and offer all these advanced features, while keeping the core simplicity of the PalmOS, HS will be limited in what they can do. For each feature they incorporate into the Handheld itself, it is one more module that is not needed. If that happens, module manufacturers would be foolish to develop for the SpringBoard slot. This would leave HandSpring's key selling point useless.

    I certainly do not want this to happen. I happen to love my Prism and my Deluxe. They are the only two handhelds I have owned. But Sony has certainly brought a PDA to the dance that makes me tempted to switch partners.

    I am already looking forward to your response...
    In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. JOHN 14:2
  16. #136  
    Whenever the new HS unit arrives, it MUST have at least 16MB of onboard RAM, if not more!

    Hey Josh, lay off Miradu2000's spelling. It totally makes my day.

    I'm one of those people who doesn't correct my kid's mispronunciations, I just enjoy them.

    off-topic but maybe fun examples I can easily recall:
    ---Once, my 12 year old son told me, "I'm feeling very laughative today."
    He was surprised, and I was disappointed to learn there was no such word.

    ---My friend told me she was lucky to have such a pathetic friend. (I think she meant to say 'sympathetic' but THAT I wouldn't have remembered.)
    "I cannot live without books." Thomas Jefferson
  17. #137  
    i also would love 16mb of on board ram. but this would nearly raise the price up aroung $80 dollars, and then the backup modual would not work, it would take longer to sync, and the viosor would need to be larger unless they invented a smaller memory chip.
    "Few women admit their age. Few men act theirs."
    "The sum of the intelligence on the planet is constant, but the population is increasing"
    "I am not a vegetarian because i love animals; I am a vegetarian because I hate plants.-- A. Whitney Brown"
  18. #138  
    Originally posted by gbgood
    Whenever the new HS unit arrives, it MUST have at least 16MB of onboard RAM, if not more!

    Hey Josh, lay off Miradu2000's spelling. It totally makes my day.

    I'm one of those people who doesn't correct my kid's mispronunciations, I just enjoy them.
    Wha? I'm kinda confused.. what did I do this time? lol.. no seriously though.. I don't see what post in particular your referring to... (yes I know there's mistakes all over vc by me.. oh well)

    I like people who correct my mistakes. I find it offensive when people laugh
    -Michael Ducker
    TreoCentral Staff
  19. #139  
    Originally posted by robert sibell
    i also would love 16mb of on board ram. but this would nearly raise the price up aroung $80 dollars, and then the backup modual would not work,<snip>
    You're right Robert!

    And geez, with all the experiments(mistakes?) I make, I couldn't live without my HS b/u mod.

    Memplug is ok, but still has issues and at best it's slow. I have way too many apps, but with Launcher III and memplug, it often takes 15 secs to load a tab of apps. 15 SECONDS!

    *This reminds me of back in the day, when I used to 'surf' the net while reading the newspaper because the load times were so slow. YOU may not remember those days of 9600, 14400, and 28800 modems. Why, when I was young, all we had was AOL, and you were forced to download "Oh, what did they call it, 'viewing improvements'>" every time you logged on. And that took easily 5-10minutes.
    And nooooooo canceling. Oh no son, not till the feds came in and made them answer their phones. I still recommend Earthlink to my 56k customers just because they saved me from AOL hell.
    "I cannot live without books." Thomas Jefferson
  20. #140  
    16mb of RAM onboard would allow me to actually have a SB slot FREE to use, though!!

    Memplug has set up house there and is adding on....
    "I cannot live without books." Thomas Jefferson
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