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  1.    #1  
    I'm just curious. There are a lot of people that put a whole lot of emphasis on making sure they have a PDA with Flash Rom. Isn't it really a non-factor. Lets look at Palm IIIxe, V and Vx users for instance. With Palm OS 4.0 coming out, how can these older devices truly take advantage of it? You're better off with buying a new PDA with the new Palm OS on it. The Palm M505 has flash rom, and may not be able to get a brightness update so Flash Rom to me seems like a non-factor.

    Whats your take?
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  2. #2  
    Exactly my point. I'm not going to **** away the time linking to the posts where I've said the same. Suffice it to say they're there. Can anyone tell me what the hell is flashed onto an older device? Every change in code was designed around the hardware upgrades.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  3. #3  
    Hell yes. I'm sorry, but I see no need, to upgrade software that will slow me down, since I can't take advantage of things. I'm cool with a software patch, becasue I have a backup module, and never have to worry about replacing it/fixing it etc..

    Handspring is smart... THOUGH...

    I think I am allowed to say this
    I was talkign to an engineer, who's associated with HS, and (s)he tells me that the flash memory thats in some platinums/prims is real, and is usable, though they say they will never use it. (s)he told me that it was at that time, the easiet stuff to get so.. IT realyl depends on the market conditions for what's going on in things..
    -Michael Ducker
    TreoCentral Staff
  4. #4  
    I concurr. Of course, I'm an addict when it comes to the newest thing, which means I'm upgrading my hardware every year or so.
  5. mr_yellow's Avatar
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    #5  
    The only time I felt gipped by not being able to flash my rom was

    1) Only having 2 bit grey scale in the OS,

    2) Not having the NiMH option in the battery options,

    3) umm.. that's it. Jack flash would be cool, but never 'wanted' it.

    aside from that, the only reason i'm currently getting a new edge is form factor. so THIN!!!!! functionality is practically the same..

    yellow

    appendum: Yes i realize some programs support 4bit grey if they access HW directly, (thank you fireviewer), but in terms of other major apps like doodling proggies, or avantgo, etc... no support. sucks when you know the HW is capable.
  6. #6  
    I think that Flash ROM overrated, however I also think that it is important. In particular for the visor.

    True, OS upgrades usually focus on hardware upgrades, however the visor's selling point (in theory) is the springboard slot which is intended to allow hardware upgradability.

    As we see with the Pi products as well as several of the wireless options, not having OS 3.5 prevents us from being able to fully utilize the hardware we already have (the visor and the springboard slot). After all a VDX should be able to run OS 3.5 about as well as Palm Vx.

    This problem will only be worse in the future for VDX owners, then later for prism, plat, and edge owners.

    This will probably not effect early adopters because they can buy the new thing, and obviously no one is producing springboard modules that won't work with the top of the line Visor. However I don't think the "well whenever something new comes out, I buy it, so it's not a problem" changes any of the above.

    For some of us, buying the Visor Edge and the Memplug with a memory card would cost one month take home pay. So for me, it really hurts that I can't just upgrade the OS, and buy the memplug. Upgrading to the next PDA should be when I want/need the hardware of the new PDA, not the software. Currently I have all the hardware I need to run 16 greys and an Omnisky and a memplug, but my OS prevents me from doing it.

    Kg
  7. #7  
    quick clarification. I agree that Flash is overrated because I have to admit that these problems with being stuck with OS 3.1H are coming towards the end of its product cycle. Even with my limited income, I have been saving for the next best thing.

    I just would much rather buy into something with Flash ram, because I do think it's a definite disadvantage, and if I'm buying another PDA, I'd much rather have it than not.

    kg
  8. #8  
    The OS 3.1 problems wouldn't exist if HS just upgraded their line instead of coming out with entirely new devices (a la platinum). That's another opinion of mine that I repeat ad nauseam.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  9.    #9  
    Some great reponses here.

    Flash ROM updates are not a big deal. If Palm were smart they'd just put 1 to 2 megs of flashable rom to cut cost. They really need to stop touting it because somebody with a Palm IIIxe or a V will be pissed when they see the can't upgrade to Palm OS 4.0. It's not like on a computer where you can go from Win95 to 98 or NT. Flash rom is only good for patching the OS.

    Reading these posts has made me feel that PDAs are basically diposable computers and should be much cheaper since the turn around on these devices seem to be shorter and shorter. You atleast keep a PC for 2 or more years but PDAs on average have a much shorter life span due to the fact that we want more features built in. I wonder what the result from a poll of Palm and PPC user in reagrds to how often you upgade your PDA device. Would Palm user be the group that upgrades their PDA hardware more often? Which in the end would say Palm user actually spend more money than the PPC user. Ironic twist eh
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  10. #10  
    Originally posted by mikedemo
    ...Would Palm user be the group that upgrades their PDA hardware more often?
    I doubt it. I think we go through pda's like toilet paper because we're the elite. I think Joe Schmoe the CEO is still using his PalmPilot Pro.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  11. #11  
    Originally posted by mikedemo
    Some great reponses here.
    Reading these posts has made me feel that PDAs are basically diposable computers and should be much cheaper since the turn around on these devices seem to be shorter and shorter. ...
    My point exactly, why spend $500+ for a clie, Mike?
  12. #12  
    A thing about having sep flash mem is that you can put other apps on there such as datebk 4. I think there is a utility that allows you to work with whats on flash (FlashPro?). But with all these PDA's only having 8 megs, having a few more kb available is GREAT! But like what ****-richardson said, I at least go through PDA's like crazy. But I use them SO much so I guess it's justifiable. I started with a VDlx when they first came out, then the Visor Prism when it first came out and now the Clie 710c (Again, when it first came out)... Looks like about every 8 months about right? The Clie is the first unit I have had that actually has flash memory built in and we'll see just how usefull it is. Personally, I'd like to flash it to an OS that utilizes the mem stick like a HD and can run apps off of it without all the complicated software add ons. Second, 16bit color with the built in graphics chip. If all this is done, I would probably keep this clie until the ARM based units came out (not just the 66mhz or whatever chips). So bottom line... I think it IS overrated just because everyone says, "Does it have flash mem?" or "The disadvantage of xx unit is that it doesn't have flash mem!" In otherwords, people just seem to hype it too much and in the long run, you don't even know you have it or care. I know that I, myself, don't notice it until the day comes when and IF sony releases an upgrade to support both memory sticks and 16 bit color... Then, will I say, "Flash mem is cool!" Now again, if it makes the unit much slower, then I don't think I'd be for it. My Prism seemed slow compared to this clie for some reason. I think it may be the graphics... I don't know but it drove me nuts at times when I'd tap on AvtGo and it took about 3-4 seconds to load. But now I'm just rambling.
  13. #13  
    It would have been nice to get the 4.0 VFS support built in to visors, then we would have no pidirect/fafilemover/etc problems with expansion, just one uniform file format and easy expansion across different media. A Flash Update from HS would make everybody fall in line. It's funny that the company that led the way with expandibility has fallen behind in the software support of it... At least we're getting 3rd party solutions: hopefully they'll shake out sooner rather than later.

    Other than that, I could care less.
  14. #14  
    Originally posted by kgruscho
    This will probably not effect early adopters because they can buy the new thing, and obviously no one is producing springboard modules that won't work with the top of the line Visor. However I don't think the "well whenever something new comes out, I buy it, so it's not a problem" changes any of the above.
    Call me cynical, but what motivation does Handspring have to update the VDX with an newer OS? Seriously, I have trouble believing that the company would rather you buy a new unit every three years than, say, every 18 months -- especially given the current overstock of inventory.
  15.    #15  
    Originally posted by patwoods


    My point exactly, why spend $500+ for a clie, Mike?
    My fiancee would ask me that question about my first PDA which was a Palm IIIxe. Why spend almost $200 to 300 on a device? I told her, it helped me at work greatly. Organized my day, reminded me of important events and dates for example my bosses birtday . But to answer your question.

    A year and a half ago I would carry:
    CD Player or walkman and headphones
    Newspaper
    Books
    Cel Phone
    A bulky Day Planner/organizer
    Print outs of e-mails
    handheld electronic chess game


    up to a month ago
    Visor Prism
    SoundsGood AudioPlayer
    8 Megabyte FlashModule
    headphones
    Cel Phone



    And today:
    Clie with 64MB MS inserted
    Headphones
    Cel phone

    I dunno about you but I am tryng to lighten my burden on my daily commute. So 500 bucks is worth it to me. Ofcourse I have higher expectations out of a pda than most others.

    I use the hell out of these devices so I am getting my moneys worth out of them. oops did I just start another thread
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  16. #16  
    Originally posted by Gameboy70


    Call me cynical, but what motivation does Handspring have to update the VDX with an newer OS? Seriously, I have trouble believing that the company would rather you buy a new unit every three years than, say, every 18 months -- especially given the current overstock of inventory.
    I didn't think handspring was overstocked.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  17. #17  
    Originally posted by mikedemo

    And today:
    Clie with 64MB MS inserted
    Headphones
    Cel phone
    EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really can't wait until Blue tooth enabled phones hit the market!!!
  18. #18  
    How's this for simple...

    If you are concerned about updating existing hardware to the latest OS versions then flash is wonderful. If you don't care about upgrading or want to buy the latest hardware and are getting rid of the old PDA, flash sucks.

    Personally (you knew this was coming), I prefer flashable units for a number of reasons. I tend to buy the latest hardware (Edge, m500, m505 and N710C so far this year), but I also keep the old PDAs. Seeing the deficiencies in older versions of the OS is an eye-opener that I would never notice if I just got rid of them when updating.

    As a developer, my feelings about flash are similar. We are currently working on a large turn-based strategy game that is similar to the old PC game Empire. Supporting Palm OS 3.1 is a real pain in the ****, and may not make it into the final version. The only reason that we are even looking at it is for all of the stupid, non-upgradeable Visor Deluxes and Palm IIIEs.

    I guess that HandSpring is happy about this since the only choice is for people to upgrade. Some percentage will get pissed off and won't buy a HandSpring again, but any that do, are sales that they might not have gotten otherwise.
  19. #19  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson
    I didn't think handspring was overstocked.
    Alright, only a theory, which I've inferred from the Edge "trade-in" program and the Prism price reduction.
  20. #20  
    Originally posted by Gameboy70


    Alright, only a theory, which I've inferred from the Edge "trade-in" program and the Prism price reduction.
    Entirely possible. I just figured they were making room price-wise for new releases.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
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