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  1. #21  
    It does sound like the M505 is the best for you. I can understand the fact that you want to be loyal to Handspring, I do too. But in the end they don't see/live your day to day. You know what best suits you, IMHO get what meets your need. I had a Prism, but I had been yearning for form factor, higher resolution, higer ram capcity, and more multimedia. At this time the Clie satisfies my desires in a PDA.

    I am going to hold onto this baby until the ARM processor based Palms are realeased. And I hope Palm doesn't drop the ball this time because my hunger for an intuitive, multimedia rich device grows more and more. I guess thats why the iPaq is gainning ground.
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  2. #22  
    I finally got around to going to CompUSA to play with a CLIE. I can see why Mike likes it - the form factor (size) is nice, nicer than the Prism, which now seems like a brick by comparison. .

    More important, the Screen is terrific - much better than I thought it would be. I beamed a document from my Prism to the Clie, and looked at them side-by-side. The Prism was brighter, of course, but the Clie was so much sharper, I was really impressed. It would be nice to have something I could read outside.

    The jog dial was nice too.

    However - and I have to confess I'm pleasantly surprised to be able to say this - overall I was not moved to buy a CLIE. Here's why.

    1. Most important - the buttons suck. I really didn't like the hardware buttons at the bottom. I particularly hated the up-and-down rocker. I was kind of shocked at how hard they were to use. Maybe Sony felt the jog dial makes them somewhat supurflous. The seem sturdy, but they are small and have poor tactile feel. If you use your unit for games, I think this is a serious drawback.

    2. No springboard slot. I of course knew that going in, but it's still important to me. I have serious doubts as to whether the "stick" will be a suitable replacement. Not to mention the fact that I've got like 8 modules now that I wouldn't be able to use.

    3. I'm leery of the whole built-in MP3 Player. Not that I think it's a bad feature - I have a SoundsGood for my Prism. However, I find myself using it more often in the EnergyClip, outside the Prism. I don't want to take my $400+ handheld to the gym or jogging to listen to tunes.

    In short, I loved the Clie's screen and size. The rest is just OK. I guess I have to wait and hope HS comes up with a higher-res, color, smaller form factor handheld that competes with it. Sigh.
  3. #23  
    Same reasons why I didn't like it... not to mention $500 for the thing, plus another $150-240 for extra stick storage for the music! I forgot how much I didn't like the buttons, though. Thanks for reminding me about that!

    Oh, by the way, don't forget: Mediocre Mac compatibility!
  4. #24  
    Originally posted by patwoods
    Oh, by the way, don't forget: Mediocre Mac compatibility!
    Well you know Visor supports the Mac right out the box. I can't say the same for the M505 or the Clie.
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  5. #25  
    The Clie N710C is a nice little unit. I was impressed, but not enough to buy it. I hate to say this, but if you really want full high resolution color and awesome multimedia....get a PocketPC. You can pick up a Casio EM-500, which is a sweet little device, for $360 (it lists for $399). And it uses MMC cards that can also be used in Palm M500s. As Pocket PC devices start dropping in price, which they already are, they are going to steal serious market share away from Palm. Handspring and Palm had better stop f*cking around and start innovating because brand loyalty is a thing of the past, and consumers won't hold onto their Palms when there are more compelling devices on the market.
  6. #26  
    Originally posted by foo fighter
    As Pocket PC devices start dropping in price, which they already are, they are going to steal serious market share away from Palm. Handspring and Palm had better stop f*cking around and start innovating because brand loyalty is a thing of the past, and consumers won't hold onto their Palms when there are more compelling devices on the market.
    I totally agree with ya there. They better do it soon or we'll all be using PocketPCs in a year.
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  7.    #27  
    An (original?) thought occurred to me last night. These boards are filled consumer's ideas about the "perfect PDA" (P-P). There are as many P-P ideas out there as there are users. But, has anyone considred the MANUFACTURER's idea of the P-P? A manufacturer's theoretical P-P has only two criteria.
    • It meets the needs of all sectors of the pda market (business, gaming, navigation, communication, etc.), so there is only one model. A one-model product line makes then easy and cheap to produce.
    • It can be sold at a price point that delivers a dominant market share, and beefy profit margins at the same time. Simple!

    Well its not that simple. Today's technology allows all these requirements to be met, but the resulting beast would be to big, heavy and flashy for half of the PDA market sectors, and way too expensive for the other half. In a few years this will change, but today producers must choose; matching one or two sectors' reqs one unit at a time.

    Which brings me finally me to the 505. Palm has decided to create an elegantly designed unit that is optimized for business. Size for business. Expansion for business. And somewhere down their list, just enough color for business.
    That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you.
  8. #28  
    Hey good point -

    Not to mention, we here definitely are the 'lunatic fringe' of the PDA world, as I heard referenced somewhere else... so our concerns don't necessarily echo the sentiments of the general buying public.
  9. #29  
    Originally posted by foo fighter
    I hate to say this, but if you really want full high resolution color and awesome multimedia....get a PocketPC.
    For multimedia (i.e., video)... I agree (mostly). The Palm OS is not really prepared for doing full-fledged video at this time. The Clie definitely brings it a few steps closer with MP3 audio support. However: when the average consumer thinks "multimedia PDA", I suspect they think "It plays DVDs". I assume PocketPC's don't do this yet? (And I question how many average consumers want to play DVDs on their PDAs.)

    However, Palm OS PDAs should be an absolute natural for high-resolution display. The Average Palm User (i.e., not us) is using it for business and personal scheduling, and that's mostly displaying text in one format or another. Jeff Hawkins has said pointedly on a number of occasions that this is one of the next big breakthroughs for PDAs (not color) -- text that approaches print quality.

    Unfortunately, I'm not seeing anything from the big 2 in Palm OS (Palm and HandSpring) about this issue. Maybe next week?
    Last edited by bookrats; 06/21/2001 at 02:40 PM.
    Jeff Meyer

    "And he died like he lived: with his mouth wide open."
  10.    #30  
    Originally posted by patwoods
    Hey good point -

    Not to mention, we here definitely are the 'lunatic fringe' of the PDA world, as I heard referenced somewhere else... so our concerns don't necessarily echo the sentiments of the general buying public.
    Yep. If you look at the differences in the Palm product line and the H'spring product line today, It's easy to understand why Hawkins left.
    That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you.
  11.    #31  
    Here are some more observations since yesterday afternoon.

    Display
    I've started thinking of the 505 in terms of a "metallic display". Imagine there was a type of titanium that could change colors and be used as a display screen. The display would be metallic, but the colors would be there as well. Not as bright as others, but it's still cool in its own way.

    The best lighting condition so far is outside on a sunny day in a lightly shaded area. If the sun is shining directly on it, it is still very readable, but not quite as good.

    Indoors, after dark, under a reading light - with backlight off, the colors are richer, backlight on, brighter, but colors are not a deep.

    Notice that I'm going through a lot of ink to describe how this display could be considered desirable by the right person. It's an accquired taste, I'm still deciding.

    I should mention that this is my first ultra-slim pda. I had a Palm Pilot Professional, then the Visor Platinum. So I am excited about the form factor. I'm probably more forgiving of the display because of the novelty.

    Graffiti
    The recognition is better than on my VPL. I make a lot of mistakes on it if I don't use TealEcho. I've had very few mistakes using the 505 w/o TealEcho

    Buttons.
    I have always been nervous about breaking hardware buttons, or least rubbing the icons off while playing games. I just don't think that PDA buttons were designed with the stress arcade gaming in mind. The 505's buttons eliminate this problem. The audio and tactile feedback on them is excellent. It's so good that your fingers are "tricked" into thinking you've pressed hard, when you really haven't.

    I noticed the quality from day one, but the difference became really obvious when I fired up Zap! 2000. I was ripping through aliens, reeking havoc when I realized, "I'm barely pressing the buttons!" I could play this for hours, furiosly wailing away, without causing any stress on the buttons. Again, supierior audio and tactile feedback. How's that for minutia?
    Last edited by slotmachine; 06/21/2001 at 03:20 PM.
    That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you.
  12.    #32  
    Originally posted by mikedemo


    What would be great is if you can put them side by side. Then you could truly compare them. 160x160 vs 320x320, SD vs MS and so on.

    I've already fallen in love with my Clie. If you like the M505, we can still be bretheren. For example, they both use the VFS file system.

    Good luck on your testing of the M505. I think Palm recently tweaked 'em a bit. I didn't have a good experience with it when they first came out. So I got a store credit and two weeks later used it on the Sony Clie. Oh Joy!!! In the end its what you like.

    BTW:There are rumors that Palm may add Brightness control in an update for the Palm M505
    I'm not sold just yet! I'm getting addicted to this tiny form-factor though. Do you have a link for the Palm 505 brightness update?
    Last edited by slotmachine; 06/21/2001 at 04:26 PM.
    That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you.
  13. #33  
    Well I'm hearing there may never be a brightness update for the M505. I may not be possible. Though they did just come out with an update for the M500 series yesterday. Its basically gives the M505 the ability to remeber the state of the light. So if you turn on the light and turn off the device, when you turn it on again the light will be on.

    you can get the update here

    http://www.palm.com/support/m505/backlight_utility.html

    The Clie already can do this out the box
    Last edited by mikedemo; 06/21/2001 at 11:25 PM.
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  14.    #34  
    I'm drifting into the "keep-everything-about-the-505-except-the-screen" camp.
    That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you.
  15.    #35  
    Are we crazy?

    The following ZDNet article, and the two others with links at the end disturb me. All three (ZDNet, PC Mag, and Computer shopper) write about the 505 as if its the Holy Grail. I think it has a very high cool factor minus the display. But these guys must golf with Carl....
    That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you.
  16. #36  
    Originally posted by slotmachine
    But these guys must golf with Carl....
    I'm beginning to think that too.
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  17. #37  
    Originally posted by slotmachine
    ...But these guys must golf with Carl....
    It amazes me how these reviews could vary between two extremes. One report says the M505 is pitiful and can barely be classified as color. The next will describe the screen as "rich and vivid". I think these guys need to lay off the crack pipe for a while!

    One thing is for sure. If I were writing a review for the 505...it wouldn't be getting a perfect score. And I certainly wouldn't go golfing with Carl!
  18. #38  
    Read's like a press release. Not even a passing comment on the controversy over the screen? Please. I know different people have come to different conclusions about the 505's screen, but even the folks who love it seem to acknowledge it takes some getting used to.
  19.    #39  
    If the PC press had any guts they would write some stories that analyzed the polarization of opions about the m505. For example, Greg Allen, an iPAQ and Prism owner posted comments stating that he found "very little difference between the m505 and the Handspring Prism as far as color and claity is concerned". What's going on? Was there a production run of super 505's made in Madagascar that some people are using now? It would be nice to get some real journalists on this.
    That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you.
  20. #40  
    Originally posted by foo fighter


    It amazes me how these reviews could vary between two extremes. One report says the M505 is pitiful and can barely be classified as color. The next will describe the screen as "rich and vivid". I think these guys need to lay off the crack pipe for a while!

    One thing is for sure. If I were writing a review for the 505...it wouldn't be getting a perfect score. And I certainly wouldn't go golfing with Carl!
    Its all about the advertising dollars. I think they are worried that if the were very truthful about the M505 that Palm would respond by pulling its ads or something. I agree that ZDnet gave the M505 too high a rating for a device that really should be called a Palm Vxc (c=color)
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
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