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  1.    #1  


    Its all about gestures, animations and multi-touch- basically Vista for Windows Mobile, aimed to drop in 2009.

    Read the full article here (while it lasts)

    http://microsoft.blognewschannel.com...tion-gestures/

    Surur
    Last edited by surur; 01/06/2008 at 03:47 PM.
  2. #2  
    Way stinking cool.

    I just got my 750, it should lead me to a windows 7 device in a year or so...
    Palm Pilot Personal, Palm III, Palm V, Palm IIIc, Kyocera QCP-6035, Sony Clie N710C , Sony Clie N610, Palm Tungsten T3, Palm Treo 650, Palm Treo 680, Palm Treo 750, Centro (Wife's), iPhone, Blackjack, iPhone 3g, back to Blackjack, Centro (Mine), Palm PRE, iPhone 3g (again), iPhone 3gs (wife's), iPhone 4, iPad, iPad 2 (wife's), Pre Plus, HP TouchPad.

    Yes, I have a problem...
  3. #3  
    Very interesting, terrific stuff! Isn't iCompetition wonderful?

    My overall impression is extremely positive, but I have reservations about the planned dependency on camera input for various functions. As others have noted, this wouldn't work well at all in the dark and generally represent a serious power liability. There's also those folks who can't carry cameras with them in their work. The OS must be able to support camera-less devices without serious degradation in UI functionality.

    Much better would be for Microsoft to design and publish an API for the functions they want the camera sensor to supply, then provide a library which adheres to that API and which actually uses the camera for the sensor. This would allow device manufacturers to be creative. They could devise different sensor mechanisms (gyroscopes, whatever) which provide the needed input then build replacement libraries that also adhere to the same API, but which uses their new sensors.

    I was also hoping to see the end of the mandated "two button" architecture which manifests in the bar at the bottom of the screen. This is just way, way too restrictive. Why not three, four, five buttons? This is standardization for the sake of it and really detracts from the ability of device and software dudes to innovate.

    Keep going, MS... you're on the right track.
  4. #4  
    So they just rip off the iPhone interface whole sale (it wasn't that efficient an interface to begin with), and make worse implementation of it, look at the magnifying glass function.
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7 View Post
    So they just rip off the iPhone interface whole sale (it wasn't that efficient an interface to begin with), and make worse implementation of it, look at the magnifying glass function.
    Give the masses what they want.

    Surur
  6. #6  
    As I mentioned elsewhere, 2009 is too late. If this came out now, in place of WinMob 6.1, it would be competitive-to-innovative. By 2009, we may be on to iPhone 2 or 3, and maybe even Palm Linux (no, really...)

    This smacks of Zune 2, where MS raced to match features on an iPod generation which was already being outdated.

    (And how terrible, if this is legit, that the screenshots get leaked over a year in advance -- we didn't see (and competitors couldn't start to perform against) iPhone's UI until Jobs pulled it from his pocket. If Gates had pulled this out tonight, as part of CES, as a shipping device, it would be game on. As it is, it's game late).

    What MS really should do is cancel both Zune and WinMob and Media Center rebrand under an umbrella that includes Xbox (i.e., steal a worthwhile play from Apple's iPhone, iPod, iMac, iLife, etc. book) and a unified MarketPlace across all consumer devices. Top that off by wrangling a killer industrial designer (from consumer electronics, maybe even Asia) to create innovative hardware to go along with it, and then get seamless content from Media Center to Xbox to Zune to WinMob (which would link to Server/Business side as well).

    That's about the only thing that would lure me back to Microsoft -- the unmatched breadth of their (thus far completely unintegrated or so poorly integrated they may as well be) offerings.
    Editor-in-chief, iMore
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  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by rener View Post
    As I mentioned elsewhere, 2009 is too late. If this came out now, in place of WinMob 6.1, it would be competitive-to-innovative. By 2009, we may be on to iPhone 2 or 3, and maybe even Palm Linux (no, really...)

    This smacks of Zune 2, where MS raced to match features on an iPod generation which was already being outdated.

    (And how terrible, if this is legit, that the screenshots get leaked over a year in advance -- we didn't see (and competitors couldn't start to perform against) iPhone's UI until Jobs pulled it from his pocket. If Gates had pulled this out tonight, as part of CES, as a shipping device, it would be game on. As it is, it's game late).

    What MS really should do is cancel both Zune and WinMob and Media Center rebrand under an umbrella that includes Xbox (i.e., steal a worthwhile play from Apple's iPhone, iPod, iMac, iLife, etc. book) and a unified MarketPlace across all consumer devices. Top that off by wrangling a killer industrial designer (from consumer electronics, maybe even Asia) to create innovative hardware to go along with it, and then get seamless content from Media Center to Xbox to Zune to WinMob (which would link to Server/Business side as well).

    That's about the only thing that would lure me back to Microsoft -- the unmatched breadth of their (thus far completely unintegrated or so poorly integrated they may as well be) offerings.
    Software has a much higher margin than hardware.

    Apple

    Profitability
    Profit Margin (ttm): 14.56%
    Operating Margin (ttm): 18.37%

    Microsoft

    Profitability
    Profit Margin (ttm): 27.51%
    Operating Margin (ttm): 37.87%

    Sony

    Profitability
    Profit Margin (ttm): 2.66%
    Operating Margin (ttm): 2.49%

    Surur
    Last edited by surur; 01/06/2008 at 06:31 PM.
  8. PSM
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    #8  
    Anybody else find it funny that we've got far more info/pics on WM7 than we do of 6.1?
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Software has a much higher margin than hardware.

    Apple

    Profitability
    Profit Margin (ttm): 14.56%
    Operating Margin (ttm): 18.37%

    Microsoft

    Profitability
    Profit Margin (ttm): 27.51%
    Operating Margin (ttm): 37.87%

    Sony

    Profitability
    Profit Margin (ttm): 2.66%
    Operating Margin (ttm): 2.49%

    Surur
    Your point has nothing to do with his point. Either you have to agree on his point that MS make badly implemented and engineered hardware or MS should quit the hardware business (btw they should, Steve Jobs baited them into making the Zune to begin with), or you admit you just want to win a **** waving contest.
  10. #10  
    Crazy, Gates just mentioned iPhone as part of the UI revolution, and Rob made fun of Apple TV being a "hobby" and that WinMob outsells iPhone...

    Bono and Al Gore appearing in the spoof video will lead to some Fake Steve funny...

    (None of them really present well, bit the connected software promise is compelling...)
    Editor-in-chief, iMore
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  11. #11  
    synch voice control and mobile visual recognition were neat, but I thought Gates would drop a bomb for his swan song, and he didn't...
    Editor-in-chief, iMore
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  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7 View Post
    Your point has nothing to do with his point. Either you have to agree on his point that MS make badly implemented and engineered hardware or MS should quit the hardware business (btw they should, Steve Jobs baited them into making the Zune to begin with), or you admit you just want to win a **** waving contest.
    It has everything to do with his point. He s saying MS should become Sony, which seems stupid.

    Surur
  13. #13  
    Presuming this is real I suppose someone at Microsoft might get to see responses to this thread. With that in mind I have a couple of comments that can be illustrated by considering this image:



    The article says it should be 'simple, memorable and fun; consistent,'. The three screen shots show a big failure in consistency and simplicity in my view. This relates to the buttons at the bottom of the screen: in the first screen shot they're absent, in the third both the left button and the centre (circular) button appear to be Start menus; in the second screen both have these have changed. Not only is this inconsistent, it's not intuitive at all. I'm sure there aren't really two different Start menu buttons on the screen at the same time, but that's the way I read the screen on first viewing. Easy interpretation on first viewing is important IMHO. Is there a simple, consistent way of launching apps?

    Also, although I think it in general looks very pretty, I don't care for the circular central button at all - it seems to intrude into the main part of screen (a bit like sitting behind someone tall at the cinema ) and some of the screens are far too cluttered for my tastes, e.g. the media player:

  14. #14  
    no surur, they're already trying to be Sony (with perplexing historic Apple envy). They need to stop doing it even worse than Sony.

    Gates' entire keynote focused on as much: better, moe integrated and easier to use across software/devices.

    However, and Jobs has said as much, most companies can't conceptualize consumer software much less write it. (Which Gates basically confirmed at D when he said he thought aspects that Jobs involved himself with were merely engineering problems -- Jobs wanted flawless UE)

    (That Microsoft makes Zune, Xbox, peripherals fof the PC, etc makes profitability tangental to the discussion already as Whatever7 points out)
    Editor-in-chief, iMore
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    Co-host, Iterate, Debug, ZEN & TECH, Ad hoc, MacBreak Weekly
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  15. #15  
    For what it's worth, I'm one of those strange creatures that likes windows, including windows mobile. Probably because I'm more concerned with smooth integration between technologies, and wide availability of application software than I am with the "perfect" UI (as I would define it).

    None of this is meant to criticize those who see this differently -- viva la difference, I say. Just wanted to state that I'm not a MSHater or WinMobHater like some.

    When I had my PalmOS 650, there were a lot of things I hated about it, including the absolutely crapola Blaze internet browser. But you know, I loved that phone too... I'm a tech/gadget junkie.

    All that said, I agree 100% with everyone here that this is too little too late if it doesn't show until next year. If this were being released today it would be sometihng. Next year? yawn...
  16. #16  
    I use Vista daily and like it quite a bit (better than XP), and I ditched my palm for a WinMob device for much the same reason (I wanted the integration). The problem is, Windows integration is a promise, not something they've reliably delivered. The independent OSs are dodgy and they really don't (yet) work together in anything approaching a seamless way (heck, Xbox marketplace and Zune marketplace aren't even the same!)

    Now, if Microsoft could DELIVER on their integration potential, I think *that* would be the killer app. No one else has the cloud, corporate, and consumer reach to match them. (Sony struggles to do similar even in their more limited consumer space).

    Apple is doing so well because it's "i" stuff gives almost seamless integration (though they still have a ways to go and their reach is far more limited for now).
    Editor-in-chief, iMore
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    Co-host, Iterate, Debug, ZEN & TECH, Ad hoc, MacBreak Weekly
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  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by rener View Post
    I use Vista daily and like it quite a bit (better than XP), and I ditched my palm for a WinMob device for much the same reason (I wanted the integration). The problem is, Windows integration is a promise, not something they've reliably delivered. The independent OSs are dodgy and they really don't (yet) work together in anything approaching a seamless way (heck, Xbox marketplace and Zune marketplace aren't even the same!)
    I have a small suspicion that justice department oversight has played a large role in preventing MS from integrating many of their properties. Its just a small suspicion, but it makes sense. It hobbled IBM similarly in the late 70's.

    That supervision is due to end in the next few months, but the states are lobbying for it to continue even longer, so who knows. Basically MS ends up as a shackled giant while the less encumbered smaller players can gain market share, which is the intention of the punishment in the first place.

    Surur
  18. #18  
    I don't buy the anti-trust argument. That just prevented Microsoft from bundling their integrated software (which they previously did in anti-competitive ways with IE and WMP targeting Netscape and Quicktime), not developing software and offering it separately for those who chose to use it.

    As a recent example, Microsoft Live is not offered as a bundled in package (as it might have been in the old days to try and smash Google), but as a separate download for those who want it.

    That Microsoft has shipped Windows, WinMob, Xbox, Zune, etc. is proof the anti-trust doesn't stop them, only their own (thus far) poor software development (in terms of integrating their own technologies).

    One area where MS might be really hampered is Zune, where MS might have (and I've never seen any proof) contractually agreed not to make their own PlaysForSure player, thus rendering Zune incompatible with WMP DRM and content from Napster, Amazon Unbox, etc. But they did that to themselves, and will probably do to PlaysForSure partners what they did to Apple (GUI, Quicktime), IBM (OS/2), and many many others over the years anyway...

    (And we haven't even touched on WinMob 7 vs. Google Android in the vapormobileware space yet...)
    Editor-in-chief, iMore
    Executive producer, Mobile Nations
    Co-host, Iterate, Debug, ZEN & TECH, Ad hoc, MacBreak Weekly
    Cook, grappler, photon wrangler.

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  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by rener View Post
    I don't buy the anti-trust argument. That just prevented Microsoft from bundling their integrated software (which they previously did in anti-competitive ways with IE and WMP targeting Netscape and Quicktime), not developing software and offering it separately for those who chose to use it.

    As a recent example, Microsoft Live is not offered as a bundled in package (as it might have been in the old days to try and smash Google), but as a separate download for those who want it.

    That Microsoft has shipped Windows, WinMob, Xbox, Zune, etc. is proof the anti-trust doesn't stop them, only their own (thus far) poor software development (in terms of integrating their own technologies).

    One area where MS might be really hampered is Zune, where MS might have (and I've never seen any proof) contractually agreed not to make their own PlaysForSure player, thus rendering Zune incompatible with WMP DRM and content from Napster, Amazon Unbox, etc. But they did that to themselves, and will probably do to PlaysForSure partners what they did to Apple (GUI, Quicktime), IBM (OS/2), and many many others over the years anyway...

    (And we haven't even touched on WinMob 7 vs. Google Android in the vapormobileware space yet...)
    If integration has not been discouraged, why do you have to download WMDC for Vista, instead of having it built-in.

    I suspect there is a lot more going on behind the scenes than one thinks.

    Surur
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post

    Its all about gestures, animations and multi-touch- basically Vista for Windows Mobile, aimed to drop in 2009.

    Read the full article here (while it lasts)

    http://microsoft.blognewschannel.com...tion-gestures/

    Surur
    Ojeegz, that's embarrassing.
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