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  1.    #1  
    I think that I've been lucky with all of the phones that I've reviewed in the Smartphone Round Robin. I think there's a proper order. I began with the device furthest away in mentality to the iPhone, the BlackBerry Curve, and it was a fine device. I missed having a touchscreen, but it was a good device. Then, I got to use the Tilt for a week, and that was actually another good device -- very powerful with its touchscreen, and it has a form factor at least in parts reminiscent of the iPhone, though maybe without some of its ease of use. And last, I get to review the Treo, which is in many ways the closest of all of the phones we'll review to the iPhone. Did you know that iPhone owners were 7 times more likely to have used a Treo (or Sidekick) than any other phone?

    Read more at http://www.phonedifferent.com/2007/1..._all_over.html
  2. #2  
    It's official, this is a smartphone round robin thread.
  3. #3  
    One thing I've never understood is why people consider the Treo 680 "inferior" to other Treos, i.e. 700p, 755.

    • The user accessible memory is the same (about 64 MB), but what is that extra 64 MB of non-accessible memory used for?
    • The CPU clock speed is the same (312 MHz), but what are the real differences amongst the series of XScale chips (PXA270 vs 271 vs 272)?
    • EDGE vs EVDO is something else that is mentioned, but if you are on T-Mobile that point is irrelevant
    • Battery life is an issue with the 680, I accept that (and feel the pain every day)


    Can somebody clearly explain what these differences really mean and why the 680 is a lesser Treo than the 755 (ignoring EVDO vs EDGE)?
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by tftp View Post
    One thing I've never understood is why people consider the Treo 680 "inferior" to other Treos, i.e. 700p, 755.
    The real question is what makes any of these phones better than the Centro?
    Last edited by Geo-Treo; 11/22/2007 at 09:55 AM.
  5. #5  
    Mike's observation on the similarities between the Treo and iPhone are interesting. And I'm just as he describes: a Treo 650 user who has seen no compelling reason to upgrade in the Treo line and is just waiting for the next version of the iTreo, err, I mean iPhone.

    What I don't understand is the comment about the cluttered home screen. I just make up categories for frequently used apps (main, utilities, games, etc.) and go to that screen if I don't already have a button assigned. This was one of the first things I did when getting the phone.
  6. JayC3's Avatar
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    #6  
    Great article Mike !

    I think a lot of former Treo users (like myself) migrated to the iPhone because, the OS X for the iphone is what Palm OS II should have been now.

    I am excited about Palm OS II, but given the mobile OS space is getting a little bit crowded, I'm not too sure on Palm's OS future. I am seeing another deja vu of PalmSource happening again. Remember the time that they also stopped support for Garnet to focus on Palm OS on linux (now ALP)? After that, they just ran out of cash and got bought out.

    The new elevation deal seems that Palm received an influx of cash, but take note that they also borrowed a lot of money to pay the shareholders. I do hope Mr. Rubinstein has a trick up his sleeve.
  7. #7  
    Seriously just waiting for the Linux Palm OS. I'll probably have another 3-4 phones before we see it though...
  8. roams11's Avatar
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    #8  
    Mike makes some great observations in this article- it's a good read.
    Also, the comparison screen shots of similarities between the iPhone and the Treo are revealing. It's a forceful, logical article.
    Sprint Franken-Pre 2
  9. #9  
    Another great article, Mike! Great insights, and good stuff to think about. It sure seems like the Palm community is just trying to figure out what to do in the "interim" time, doesn't it? Lots have bailed to the iPhone. Lots have bailed to WM (me included ... maybe). It'll be interesting to see if they'll come back in a year or two or three whenever the new stuff emerges. Palm's fate probably depends on that.
  10. #10  
    Great article. I like many others like the comparisons with the Iphone. Keep up the good work.
    jb
    Blackberry Curve 8310
  11. #11  
    thanks for the article Mike...

    I disagree with most of the things you say about the Palm OS needing more tweaking. I think that devices such as the Blackberry and Iphone have raised the standards on their respective strong suits (Email and Media) that in that respect they have dwarfed the Palm OS' ease of use in everything.

    A device has to fit your lifestyle.

    Iphone's are for people who have the time to enjoy the multimedia capabilities.

    Crackberries are for people who need their email fast and with very little troubleshooting and need to communicate with other crackberry addicts.

    For those of us in between, there are Treo's.

    If I had time to watch a video through a tiny screen, I would probably be with the evil orange and blue and own a Stevephone.

    If I checked 500+ emails a day such as some of you and all my friends (who I actually communicate with daily) owned a crackberry, I'd probably have a crackberry.

    I still think that a Treo is a more complete device than all of its competitors. They just don't have the cold-hard cash and name recognition that the Blackberry and Iphone enjoy.


    and for the record...as far as Operating Systems go...nowadays they take a while to get released...think about the gap between Windows XP (rel. 2001) and Windows Vista (rel. 2006-2007) Palm could have gone out half-cocked and released what they have now, full of bugs (and we know the current Garnet has got many already) and end up just like Microsoft ended up with three OS within three years, ME, 2000 and XP.

    As buggy as Garnet is, I prefer a devil I know.
  12. #12  
    Mike, aside from asthetic aspects, and the wifi that you mentioned, were there any other areas on the 680 that you just found wanting compared to you iPhone? It seems like they are pretty much similar for you, hence my question.
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.
  13. #13  
    While I'm not really a fan of Palm devices, I am a fan of Linux, I'm waiting patiently to see the mobile version that Palm comes up with at this point, it's been a long time coming...so it better be good lol...I expect it to be better then Mokka.
  14. roams11's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by tftp View Post
    One thing I've never understood is why people consider the Treo 680 "inferior" to other Treos, i.e. 700p, 755.


    Can somebody clearly explain what these differences really mean and why the 680 is a lesser Treo than the 755 (ignoring EVDO vs EDGE)?
    Not sure if I will clearly explain, since as you mention, much of the hardware is essentially equal. The differences in hardware are a more powerful original battery, a better camera (.3 vs 1.3), and mini SD slot. But there is more than just hardware.

    Key in comparison is the connection of EvDO being about 6 times faster than Edge- not a factor for you, but huge if you are comparing devices and want to stream music and make use of all the software.The hardware differences there are tilt toward the 755p, but probably not so drastically that it would be worth the cost when you already own a 680.

    Also important is included software. The 755p offers more, meaning you have to purchase less from third parties...off the top of my head, it includes a later version of p-tunes for streaming, docs to go 10, plus a free instant messaging program for YIM AIM and MS. It also addressed quality issues regarding memory lag.

    The differences are clearly incremental. With the exception of EvDO and the camera, everything (including battery life) can be equal or better on the 680 with third party applications. It's a small evolutionary gap to the newer 755p making it incrementally better than the 680...not so important when considering you can get the 680 for free with a contract right now.

    If it could've been managed, the 755p (or Centro) was better suited for comparison in the Round Robin because of the speed advantage, and less necessity to tweak for optimum use, but that's just my feeling.
    Sprint Franken-Pre 2
  15. #15  
    Oh man, I was just looking at the Nokia N810 which runs on Linux as well, now if PalmOS looks half as good as this when they launch it, Palm may win back alot of people...sorry I know this directly does not pertain to the article but..it may be giving us a heads up on what to expect from Palm in the future...Have a look here
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by nitido357 View Post
    I still think that a Treo is a more complete device than all of its competitors. They just don't have the cold-hard cash and name recognition that the Blackberry and Iphone enjoy.
    The Treo sure doesn't seem complete sometimes with its lack of GPS and wi-fi among other things. I look at it as a versatile platform beyond its prime. We mostly get by well enough with the Treo but can't help but watch the new kids on the block strut their stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by nitido357 View Post
    As buggy as Garnet is, I prefer a devil I know.
    Familiarity is what it boils down to. The Palm OS is comfortable and it still works well enough for most uses. In another year it will be that much farther behind, though.
  17. #17  
    Didn't Palm originate at Apple? Did it not succeed the Newton? If so, it seems that a lot of the same goals and strategies are at work at Apple today as they were back when they came up with the palm pilot in the first place.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by dairyfree View Post
    Didn't Palm originate at Apple? Did it not succeed the Newton? If so, it seems that a lot of the same goals and strategies are at work at Apple today as they were back when they came up with the palm pilot in the first place.
    Ha! The Newton (1993-1998) was interesting page in Apple's history but I don't believe there was any connection with the PalmPilot (1996+) other than that one Palm founder was coincidentally an employee of Apple in the 1980's. The Newton was a PDA before that term existed. I remember handling one the year they came out and thinking it was pretty neat but rather large and awfully expensive.

    Palm took the basic idea of the Newton and other early PDA attempts and greatly improved the concept with the PalmPilot. Over a decade later the heritage of today's Palm OS is clear and undoubtedly a reason some of us treat the Treo like an old friend even though it disappoints in some ways. Even brand new devices like the iPhone can't help but have some similarities to the original Palm.

    It's interesting that handwriting recognition which was the basis of the Pilot (and the Newton before it) has never really caught on, so now we deal with laughably small physical keyboards or "soft" keyboards.
  19. roams11's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Geo-Treo View Post
    Ha! The Newton (1993-1998) was interesting page in Apple's history but I don't believe there was any connection with the PalmPilot (1996+) other than that one Palm founder was coincidentally an employee of Apple in the 1980's. The Newton was a PDA before that term existed. I remember handling one the year they came out and thinking it was pretty neat but rather large and awfully expensive.
    ...
    It's interesting that handwriting recognition which was the basis of the Pilot (and the Newton before it) has never really caught on, so now we deal with laughably small physical keyboards or "soft" keyboards.
    Yes, Palm was a Silicone Valley startup with very little capital and no connection to Apple. A good read on the history of Palm from a few yrs ago is Piloting Palm, worth the time to read if interested in the period.

    The marketplace pretty much demanded the keyboard as it is quicker and more accurate for most people. You can still get versions of Graffiti on todays phones through places like inkmarksoftware, but no one is demanding it still be bundled; kind of sad in a way.

    I envision a truly next generation Treo losing its edges, moving the home buttons off to the sides and expanding to a 480x320 screen while keeping a keyboard.
    Sprint Franken-Pre 2
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by roams11 View Post
    I envision a truly next generation Treo ...expanding to a 480x320 screen while keeping a keyboard.
    I'll be first in line for that one! We can only dream............
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