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  1. #21  
    I have a new Tilt, and have a problem with it freezing up. Think it is a defect, and will take it back today.
    I am not a "techie". I have not gotten confortable with the Tilt as yet.
    Thoughts of a Tilt vs. iPhone for someone that is more interested in email, and web brousing than the music, and games applications.
  2. Rusty J's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by scottymomo View Post
    ...and 3G for GSM folks...
    Seconded on the 3G.
    I wouldn't have my Tilt now if there was a 3G-capable Palm OS Treo.
    Not that I mind, much... it's an amazing device once it's sorted out.

    I'll probably end up going back to Palm OS if and when they get that sorted out.

    -Rusty
    -Rusty
    Blackjack, Tilt; Treo 90, 270-680; Palm Vx, i705, T|T3, iQue 3200; Nokia N800, E71
  3. #23  
    I've got a treo 680. treo 750v and a Blackberry Curve at the moment and I keep swapping between them. I can't decide myself which is the best o/s but one thing I have learned of late is that the device itself, and how useable it is, on a daily basis is just as important as the system. For example I sort of prefer win mob at the moment but the only device I can really tolerate it on is a the treo 750v. That and 3rd party apps too. I prefer some apps on win mob, RSS and Listpro and yet others on the palm o/s such as Snappermail. There's no point having a great and powerful o/s on a fully specced up device if that device is a pig to use. I'd like to take the best bits and apps from each o/s and stick them on the one device..most likely a treo incidentally.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by murrayalex View Post
    I've got a treo 680. treo 750v and a Blackberry Curve at the moment and I keep swapping between them. I can't decide myself which is the best o/s but one thing I have learned of late is that the device itself, and how useable it is, on a daily basis is just as important as the system. For example I sort of prefer win mob at the moment but the only device I can really tolerate it on is a the treo 750v. That and 3rd party apps too. I prefer some apps on win mob, RSS and Listpro and yet others on the palm o/s such as Snappermail. There's no point having a great and powerful o/s on a fully specced up device if that device is a pig to use. I'd like to take the best bits and apps from each o/s and stick them on the one device..most likely a treo incidentally.
    If you use enough Palm OS apps to be worth it, you can get a compatibility layer for WinMob. I don't remember what it is called but it runs 50 bucks and gives you access to all of your Palm software.
    Grant Smith
    A+, Net+, MCPx2, BSIT/VC, MIS

    eNVENT Technologies
    Use your imagination.
    --
    Sprint HTC Evo 4G

    DISCLAIMER: The views, conclusions, findings and opinions of this author are those of this author and do not necessarily reflect the views of eNVENT Technologies.
  5. #25  
    Do you have multiple data plans? What I mean is how do you get data on the treos and on the bb? Separate Sims? I use a 680, but have toyed with using the wife's discarded pearl b/c of its size. Any way to switch between them and get data etc on both.
    jb
    Blackberry Curve 8310
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbonnot03 View Post
    Do you have multiple data plans? What I mean is how do you get data on the treos and on the bb? Separate Sims? I use a 680, but have toyed with using the wife's discarded pearl b/c of its size. Any way to switch between them and get data etc on both.
    BB Connect requires the BB data service. Since he already has said service for use with his BB he didn't have to subscribe to any extra services.
    Grant Smith
    A+, Net+, MCPx2, BSIT/VC, MIS

    eNVENT Technologies
    Use your imagination.
    --
    Sprint HTC Evo 4G

    DISCLAIMER: The views, conclusions, findings and opinions of this author are those of this author and do not necessarily reflect the views of eNVENT Technologies.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by markdb77 View Post
    Palm needs WIFI. That is WinMo's only advantage.
    Don't forget about native multitasking, the ability to use HSDPA/UMTS, multiple vendors supplying different devices (Palm, HTC, Inventec, Pantech, Samsung, etc. vs. Palm OS - Palm), support for higher resolution screens (not like the majority of mfrs use them anyways), continuously updated OS...
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    Don't forget about native multitasking, the ability to use HSDPA/UMTS, multiple vendors supplying different devices (Palm, HTC, Inventec, Pantech, Samsung, etc. vs. Palm OS - Palm), support for higher resolution screens (not like the majority of mfrs use them anyways), continuously updated OS...
    And to think I was biting my tongue... ;-)
    Grant Smith
    A+, Net+, MCPx2, BSIT/VC, MIS

    eNVENT Technologies
    Use your imagination.
    --
    Sprint HTC Evo 4G

    DISCLAIMER: The views, conclusions, findings and opinions of this author are those of this author and do not necessarily reflect the views of eNVENT Technologies.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by gksmithlcw View Post
    If you use enough Palm OS apps to be worth it, you can get a compatibility layer for WinMob. I don't remember what it is called but it runs 50 bucks and gives you access to all of your Palm software.
    StyleTap
    Palm III > HS Visor > Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 750 > Treo Pro > PrePlus GSM

    "95% of all software issues are due to USER ERROR."
  10. #30  
    I can't believe you stated that activeSync is better than Palm's Hotsync. as a Treo 680 user and Treo 750v ex-user, I can say that even none of them are killer appz for syncing, Palm's Hotsync is a lot more better than Microsoft.

    have you tried to sync Notes with activeSync? can you place them in subfolders? can you have dedicated subfolder for Notes? can you sync Outlook categories? I can continue if you want. OK, Palm Desktop is ugly... so? Palm Desktop is involved only if you don't want to use Outlook. if you use Outlook, forget Palm Desktop. I want to repeat here: I think both sync applets SUCK. it's a shame there's no smart syncing app here.

    let's talk about multitasking: as a Palm OS programmer - well, I'm also a Windows programmer - I can say there's no true multitasking in Palm OS, and it's true, developers have to struggle a lot with receiving CPU attention and releasing it to the other processes, coupled with low level memory handling and the hassle of taking care of stack activity, cooperative multitasking is a dreadful pain. however, I'm here again asking when you really take advantage of true preemptive multitasking on Windows Mobile. I used it for months and I can't remember a real situation where multitasking saved me lots of time. I can only think about dreadful wait conditions here and there, waiting tons of seconds to open an excel spreadsheet, ecc. and having applications running behind gave me no goods apart of the hassle of killing them from the task manager to ensure to have more available RAM.
  11. #31  
    Thank you for this perspective. As a 680 user that started with a Visor Deluxe i have contemplated jumping ship for something a little more - modern. This is a really nice round robin - the kind of honesty that is hard to find in the world of fan-boy loyalties.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by gksmithlcw View Post
    BB Connect requires the BB data service. Since he already has said service for use with his BB he didn't have to subscribe to any extra services.
    I want to make sure I am understanding this. I have asked cs reps numerous times and they all stare at me with dumbfounded gazes.

    If I change my data to a BB plan and download the Bb connect from palm to my 680, I can then have blackberry email on either the pearl or 680? Does this require IT support and the BES?
    jb
    Blackberry Curve 8310
  13. #33  
    I've been with the 680 for almost a year now. I keep playing around with WM stuff - particularly the 8525 and now Tilt - but just can't find enough to make the switch for. They certainly can do a lot more, but the 680 does 90% of what I need it to do. It's hard to justify the cost for that last 10%. I'm just starting to play around with a Bluetooth GPS and if that works, it's one more reason to stick with the 680.

    I will say that there is NO WAY I would stick with Palm if it weren't for 3rd party stuff. Most folks don't even recognize my OS as Palm it's so altered. Looks modern and just as polished as WM 6 in my opinion. You can do a lot with ZLauncher and various backgrounds, icon sets, etc. I do resent having to do all the tweaks just to make it look (and function) like a modern OS, but at least I can. I imagine if I found out that the WM was just as customizable I'd be much more intrigued to jump. We'll see ......
  14. #34  
    I had a hard time trying to decide to switch over to WinMo... I've had a palm ever since the USRobotics days, and a Palm based smartphone ever since the Treo 300!

    For me the time came 2 years ago when Sprint started carrying the PPC 6700 (HTC Apache). I was traveling back and forth to Japan at the time, and I had some requirements---

    1. I didn't want to leave Sprint (I have a nice employee discount on service!)
    2. I needed something that would still work in other places, even if only data itself worked to check email.

    With the Apache and its built in WiFi, I was able to seek out hotspots (and there are TONS of free hotspots in Japan!) and get data, and discovered the joys of using Skype on a mobile. I did however miss to one-handedness of the Treo and eventually got a 700Wx--But I can stick a WiFi card in it and get the same thing--Unlike it's PalmOS sibling... Also the multitasking and media options now are just rediculous...

    I have Telenav, Yahoo GO, Vtap, pRSS, Opera mini that I use everyday... I even got Styletap so I could keep Kinoma and my Japanese Translation PRC I bought a long time ago...

    You know what though--even with all I can do with my Treo 700wx (and an unbranded TyTN 2 on another network!) I really am looking to see what Palm Linux will be like... Palm started it all for me, and I'd move back in a heartbeat if I could get the simplicity of Palm OS, Multitask ability of WinMo, and Multimedia prowess of Symbian in the new PalmOS (or even ALP)
  15. nerdstrap's Avatar
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    #35  
    In my opinion, Palm should convert all of their applications to OS independant apps and sell them to WM and iPhone users. The Palm OS kernel needs a major overhaul and that would take too long to make a difference in the current market...
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by matro View Post
    I can't believe you stated that activeSync is better than Palm's Hotsync. as a Treo 680 user and Treo 750v ex-user, I can say that even none of them are killer appz for syncing, Palm's Hotsync is a lot more better than Microsoft.

    have you tried to sync Notes with activeSync? can you place them in subfolders? can you have dedicated subfolder for Notes? can you sync Outlook categories? I can continue if you want. OK, Palm Desktop is ugly... so? Palm Desktop is involved only if you don't want to use Outlook. if you use Outlook, forget Palm Desktop. I want to repeat here: I think both sync applets SUCK. it's a shame there's no smart syncing app here.

    let's talk about multitasking: as a Palm OS programmer - well, I'm also a Windows programmer - I can say there's no true multitasking in Palm OS, and it's true, developers have to struggle a lot with receiving CPU attention and releasing it to the other processes, coupled with low level memory handling and the hassle of taking care of stack activity, cooperative multitasking is a dreadful pain. however, I'm here again asking when you really take advantage of true preemptive multitasking on Windows Mobile. I used it for months and I can't remember a real situation where multitasking saved me lots of time. I can only think about dreadful wait conditions here and there, waiting tons of seconds to open an excel spreadsheet, ecc. and having applications running behind gave me no goods apart of the hassle of killing them from the task manager to ensure to have more available RAM.
    I don't even sync to my computer anymore, no need for 1990 technology (since it hasn't changed....at all since then it seems). MS Exchange Activesync is where it's at for me. The best part is I don't have to do anything to my devices when I swap sim cards, it just syncs everything up as soon as it boots up and there's no need for me to worry.
  17. #37  
    The review focuses a lot on the Palm-Windows Mobile schism. Yes, the Palm OS is beyond old; it was a great PDA system at one time but today's multi-featured smart phones--and their users--are much more demanding. But Windows Mobile ain't the answer; it may do a few things better but has its own limitations and history, and the interface is every bit as ugly as today's Palm OS.

    I love the Treo's utility and flexibility. I put up with its faults and find workarounds--not so hard considering all the 3rd-party apps. I was severely disappointed to hear the new OS is a long way off. The management that delayed OS development (for what?--the Fooleo?) messed up big time and will lose me as a customer as soon as I find a suitable replacement.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Honestly, Palm multi-tasking isn't as horrible as people make it sound. Its not good, but its not horrible. [...] FontSmoother lets you use custom fonts and adds anti-aliasing to them, skinUI and PalmRevolt change the look of the OS entirely.
    I remember being a huge fan of font-smoother. I may have been a little too harsh on PamOS multitasking - my main gripe comes from the comments I made about it being "arcane." I just wish all the multitasking stuff didn't feel so "hacky."

    Quote Originally Posted by Bla1ze View Post
    While the inclusion of a Treo 680 into the round robin is understandable, I'm not really sure as to how it can really shape up, the reason I mention this is due the fact the Palm OS, at this point anyways, is no longer used, they have swayed from their beloved OS and sucked it up for the inclusion of WinMobile, while the Palm OS is still being developed (so they say lol, delays aplenty mind you)...does anybody else feel kind of weird about including the Treo 680 into the mix, because really, we don't have the next incarnation of the Palm OS (no definitive expected date either) or am I really alone on this one?...the Blackberry has 4.2 out now...with the Pearl 2 being released on November with the new 4.3 OS, updated browser, video capture etc...and WinMobile 6 while not totally BRAND new, it's still fresh.
    Well, two bits. As Antoine mentioned, we needed to pretty much stick with GSM otherwise it would have been MUCH more difficult for us to swap devices around (we're all on GSM anyway). Otherwise, well, the 680 and the Centro represent, on GSM and CDMA, the latest PalmOS has to offer. I felt we *needed* to have PalmOS in there...

    We're planning on making the round robin a yearly deal - wouldn't it me nice if Palm surprised us as got us the new PalmOS twice as quickly as they promised. *sigh*


    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7 View Post
    XP stop being supported doesn't mean its not the best option for many hardware for the next 5 years. You can make an argument for the (abandoned) PalmOS. It's one of the best option for some people for the next couple years. Until all the weird third party app get ported to other OS, some people still rather use it. Just like some print shops are still using MacOS9 for QuartExpress.
    That is an EXCELLENT point. One I am absolutely going to steal in my roundup article tomorrow (with credit, of course).

    Quote Originally Posted by B-model View Post
    I would have thought the Centro or the 755P would haqve been more appropiate. They are the most recently release and include things like IM & google maps. In the centro's case a much better form factor.
    If there had been a GSM Centro, we most definitely would have chosen it.

    Quote Originally Posted by murrayalex View Post
    There's no point having a great and powerful o/s on a fully specced up device if that device is a pig to use. I'd like to take the best bits and apps from each o/s and stick them on the one device..most likely a treo incidentally.
    Was mentioned above, but the thing you're looking for is StyleTap. I haven't used it extensively, so i can't vouch for it, but it might be worth a try!

    Quote Originally Posted by matro View Post
    I can't believe you stated that activeSync is better than Palm's Hotsync. as a Treo 680 user and Treo 750v ex-user, I can say that even none of them are killer appz for syncing, Palm's Hotsync is a lot more better than Microsoft.

    have you tried to sync Notes with activeSync? can you place them in subfolders? can you have dedicated subfolder for Notes? can you sync Outlook categories? I can continue if you want. OK, Palm Desktop is ugly... so? Palm Desktop is involved only if you don't want to use Outlook. if you use Outlook, forget Palm Desktop. I want to repeat here: I think both sync applets SUCK. it's a shame there's no smart syncing app here.
    I'm glad we agree that syncing sucks pretty much across the board. I should have been clearer - I'm just talking about straight up bugs / repeated entries in the database / etc. A big part of it might be that I'm comparing apples to oranges - palm desktop on mac to activesync on windows.

    let's talk about multitasking: as a Palm OS programmer - well, I'm also a Windows programmer - I can say there's no true multitasking in Palm OS, and it's true, developers have to struggle a lot with receiving CPU attention and releasing it to the other processes, coupled with low level memory handling and the hassle of taking care of stack activity, cooperative multitasking is a dreadful pain. however, I'm here again asking when you really take advantage of true preemptive multitasking on Windows Mobile. I used it for months and I can't remember a real situation where multitasking saved me lots of time. I can only think about dreadful wait conditions here and there, waiting tons of seconds to open an excel spreadsheet, ecc. and having applications running behind gave me no goods apart of the hassle of killing them from the task manager to ensure to have more available RAM.
    Two points there - I download a lot of apps and media directly and having to sit and wait for them to download in the browser is a HUGE PAIN for me. But you're right that multitasking isn't as important on a handheld device as it is on a desktop.. the other point is the one I made above and the one you allude to - the struggles developers have to make and how those struggles -- despite incredible efforts and generally *really* good jobs -- often translate into bugginess / instability for the end user.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerdstrap View Post
    In my opinion, Palm should convert all of their applications to OS independant apps and sell them to WM and iPhone users. The Palm OS kernel needs a major overhaul and that would take too long to make a difference in the current market...
    That is ALSO an interesting idea. I remember many people speculating that Palm would just give up on making a full platform and make PalmOS a "skin" on top of Windows Mobile. Instead they're going the Linux route - but winmo "native" versions of some palm PIM apps would be interesting. I'd definitely switch to Palm's ToDo and Calendar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geo-Treo View Post
    The review focuses a lot on the Palm-Windows Mobile schism. Yes, the Palm OS is beyond old; it was a great PDA system at one time but today's multi-featured smart phones--and their users--are much more demanding. But Windows Mobile ain't the answer; it may do a few things better but has its own limitations and history, and the interface is every bit as ugly as today's Palm OS.
    yeah, I did focus on that schism, but then again, it *is* a windows mobile site. I agree that both OS's have some legacy-looks in there that are ugly as sin. But at least WM has been making nominal efforts (especially in the past year) to update their look a bit.
  19. #39  
    I have often thought about checking out Windows mobile. The main thing that stops me is all the software for Palm OS that I have accumulated over the years. The thought of having to spend several hundreds of dollars to replace apps just does not seem worth it to me on top of the price of the phone.
  20. roams11's Avatar
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    #40  
    While I agree wholeheartedly Palm needs to multi task more completely, this might be an area where Dieter would have benefited reviewing a newer Palm offering than the 680.

    The 755p and Centro both do well running Ptunes or Sprint Mobile Messaging (AIM, YM, WM) and continuing other processes- 2 of the 3 things mentioned in the article for multi-tasking.

    As for more productive, but mundane tasks... have to wonder here if a comparison between the current phone OS's really nets a significant time benefit...I've seen WM get very boggy trying to multi-task, and BB doesn't attempt it well on the 8700.

    It is essentially agreed from the article that the PalmOS is crisper and quicker... so sending an email and then one button switching to a download page, or punching up a web page for weather, might just be more efficient. And you can be listening to music and getting texts while doing it on the newest Palms.

    I agree with the point that it is nearly unforgivable for Palm to not have addressed multi tasking with more OS-centric solutions, particularly for the Round Robin GSM offering. But compared to something that doesn't work particularly well you might prefer what nets a consistently quick result with minimal problems.
    Sprint Franken-Pre 2
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