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  1. #21  
    Originally posted by Fat_Man
    OK, checking this out. According to some testing by new Clie owners, the Clie battery life is much better than reported. The Sony site reported a 3 hour battery life while playing MP3 and having the Clie on with the brightness set at 100%.

    However, the main power comsumption is apparently the sidelight, not the MP3 player. alocke ran the Clie with continous MP3 playback and brightness at minumum, the result was a whopping 10 hours!!
    Yeah, I'm glad to see that the battery life is better than expected also since I bought one. But I don't think that it is the fault of the just backlight, the MP3 hardware, or the main Palm component. I believe that it is a case of doing too much with the battery at once. Batteries have the property of losing power more quickly based on the rate that power that is drawn from them (how's that for stating the obvious). The problem comes in when you start drawing more power than the battery is rated for. At this point the drain rate is greatly accelerated. I think that this is what was happening when playing MP3s with maximum backlight. If you turned the volume up all of the way, battery life would probably drop even more.

    This is undoubtedly why Sony also put in the ability to turn off the display and backlight altogether. I haven't tried it, but I'll bet the battery would last 15-18 hours at a reasonable volume.
  2. #22  
    Where are these guys getting the new Clies already? I thought it wasn't in US yet.
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  3. #23  
    Originally posted by mikedemo
    Where are these guys getting the new Clies already? I thought it wasn't in US yet.
    Some of the Fry's Electronics stores in Southern California started selling them on 05/24/01-05/25/01.
  4. #24  
    Yeah, California was the first the have the Clie's in retail. I guess that's the first port that shipments from Japan comes in. So I expect that the Clie's are making their way across the US. Hope SONY made enough causing the units are selling like hot cakes in Cal.

    There's a sighting of the Clie in a Best Buy in Atlanta, so I would expect the Clie to show up in other major cities soon.
    Fat's
  5. #25  
    Originally posted by mikedemo
    Where are these guys getting the new Clies already? I thought it wasn't in US yet.
    Yep, I got mine at Fry's in San Jose last Friday. It looks like Sony did the same thing as Palm and filled the retail channel before shipping preorders.

    BTW - Somebody on one of the other boards said that he got one at a Bet Buy this morning, so maybe they will start showing up outside of California.
  6. #26  
    Originally posted by bradhaak


    Yep, I got mine at Fry's in San Jose last Friday. It looks like Sony did the same thing as Palm and filled the retail channel before shipping preorders.

    BTW - Somebody on one of the other boards said that he got one at a Bet Buy this morning, so maybe they will start showing up outside of California.
    I played with one for about 20 mins at one of the Best Buy stores in Atlanta. I won't parrot what others have posted, but I agree with most of the positve comments. I have three minor concerns.

    1) The power button doesn't feel as sturdy as the one on my visot plat.
    2) the word "Power" appears to be decalled on the button, and could possibly wear off.
    3) The metal case is coated in something that might show scratces easily.

    My screen quality rankings for some non active-matrix screens:

    1 - iPaq
    2 - CLIE
    3 - Jomada
    4 - 505 (distant 4th)
    "That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you...."
  7. #27  
    Check this out:

    Sony utilizes the MediaQ (MQ-1100) chip as the graphics controller for the Clie.

    This site has taken the Clie apart and you can see the chip.

    http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconVa...ebunkai04.html

    Here's some infomation on the chip:

    MQ-1100TM is the industry's first device to combine a 64-bit 2D graphics engine, LCD display interface, and USB device controller into a single device designed for handheld platforms that require long-battery life.

    The MediaQ MQ-11xx controllers redefine the end-user experience on handheld appliances. They enable Web browsing and other rich multimedia applications to run smoothly at resolutions up to 320x320 with 65,536 colors on passive and active LCDs. A high-performance 64-bit 2D graphics acceleration engine, with screen-to-screen BitBLT, provides users with graphics performance normally associated with desktop computers.
    http://www.thecubicle.com/mix_mingle...jan/mediaq.htm

    Notice that the chip has the capability for 320x320 resolution and 65,536 colors!! Therefore, maybe the reason that the Clie only has 8-bit colors is a limitation of the Palm OS 3.5, not a hardware limitation. Well... at least the graphic controller chip supports 16-bit color, maybe the actually screen do not.

    But this does raise the possibility that IF SONY could provide an upgrade to Palm OS 4.0, the Clie can have 16-bit color.

    I'm not very techno. inclined. Heck I don't even know if the there's is such a thing as a "graphic control chip", but whatever the MediaQ chip is called... it certainly raised some interesting possibilties.

    Maybe Brad can enlighten us...
    Last edited by Fat_Man; 05/30/2001 at 10:54 PM.
    Fat's
  8. #28  
    Originally posted by Fat_Man
    Check this out:

    Sony utilizes the MediaQ (MQ-1100) chip as the graphics controller for the Clie.
    This is very cool and yes calling it a graphics controller is perfectly appropriate. I was reading up on the chip the other day and there are a number of really interesting things about it (at least interesting to a nerd like me.)

    First of all is the obvious feature of the resolution and color depth. The chip is capable of 320x320 resolution and either 256 or 65,536 colors. The 256 color mode is paletted. In this case, the total number of colors that you can choose from is 18 bits or 262,144 colors. Compare that to the 12 bits (4096 colors) available for the Palm IIIc. This means that pictures that use less than 256 colors will actually look better than they would on a 64K color mode. Of course if the picture has more than 256 colors, all bets are off.

    The 320x320 resolution is very cool. This is what people have been talking about for a hi-res mode for a number of years. It makes much more sense than the 240x240 (240x320) mode of the HandEra. This is because at 320x320, legacy apps that run at 160x160 can be doubled to exactly fill the screen. This provides complete compatibility with existing apps. In addition, the Sony implementation makes it possible to display the hi-res fonts in low-res legacy apps. Even though I am not terribly fond of the actual typefaces provided by Sony, this still a great bonus.

    Before any of us saw the N710C, there was a lot of speculation about graphics performance. I made a number of comments concerning my expectations of slowness. This was based on the theory that they would just use a dumb framebuffer controller like the current Palms and Visors. In this case, there would have been twice as much memory for one screen of data as there is on the Prism. This means that in general, it would take twice as long to draw the screen. And since all of the work is done by the CPU, programs are also slower.

    Happily, the MQ1100 is not just a graphics controller, it is a 2D graphics accelerator. Large amounts of actual screen drawing can be done by the MQ1100. It has a commands for line drawing, rectangular bit-blt, raster ops, and mono to color conversion. This means that for many routine operations, the OS will make a single call to the graphics chip and it will go off and draw something without the CPU having to be bogged down. For instance to draw a line, the OS just has to say draw a line from coordinate A to coordinate B. It doesn't care about the actual pixels, the MQ1100 takes care of it. The same thing goes for displaying rectangular blocks of memory. This could be a bitmap or icon, but is much more likely to be text. When the OS tells the MQ1100 to draw a character, the traditional way would be to copy the pixels byte-by-byte from an image of the character in the ROM to the screen. The destination location for each pixel has to be calculated. The accelerated way is to specify the destination rectangle and then just copy all of the data to a fixed location in memory. The MQ1100 will take care of getting it to the right place. What all of this means is that instead of being slower than the Prism, graphics actually feel faster, despite the higher resolution.

    Additional features of interest are the hardware cursor and the integrated framebuffer memory. In all previous Palm OS devices, the screenbuffer has been part of system memory. In the N710C, the MQ1100 has 256 KB of memory on the chip. This memory is very fast and optimized to provide maximum performance for screen-to-screen operations.

    The hardware cursor is a 64x64 pixel sprite. It is intended to represent the mouse pointer on systems with a mouse. This doesn't currently do us a whole lot of good, but it could be very cool for game makers.

    Now for the big question. Why the N710C only uses 256 color mode when the MQ1100 supports 64K color mode. The answer is that except for HandSpring who did the development work on 16-bit (64K) color mode, it is only available in Palm OS v4. When Sony committed to production, the OEM version of 4.0 was not done. Actually for all I know, Palm has released the code to Sony, but Sony will have quite a bit of work to integrate it and adapt it to fit their hardware. There has not been any statements from Sony saying that they will or will not support 16-bit color in future OS versions, but it is at least reasonable that they could. Also, since the OS is on flash, it is upgradeable.

    That's about all for now. If I wasn't clear or missed anything let me know. Also if I am wrong about any details, I am sure that everyone will tell me.
  9. #29  
    Originally posted by bradhaak
    This is very cool and yes calling it a graphics controller is perfectly appropriate...
    This has already been posted before. Jeez! Try a search before you post.

    j/k Thanks for the clarification. So, as far as you can tell, the 710 should be able to support 16-bit color with an optimized OS, right?
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  10. #30  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson

    This has already been posted before. Jeez! Try a search before you post.
    huh? I don't get it? If I'm asking stuff that's being discussed before...sorry...tell me, and I'll do a search.

    Anyway, thanks for the info. and explaination Brad!! You're a great help.

    So... like D-R said above... you think that the Clie can support 16-bit color once/if SONY release their modified Palm OS 4.0?

    What about the screen? Do you think that the current screen of the Clie can support the increase colors?

    Speaking of speed, in you opinion, how does the Clie compare to the m505 or the Platinum (what I have right now).

    Brad, you have alway been objective, what do you think of the Clie now that you have had it for a while.

    Thanks!!!
    Fat's
  11. #31  
    Originally posted by bradhaak

    First of all is the obvious feature of the resolution and color depth. The chip is capable of 320x320 resolution and either 256 or 65,536 colors. The 256 color mode is paletted. In this case, the total number of colors that you can choose from is 18 bits or 262,144 colors. Compare that to the 12 bits (4096 colors) available for the Palm IIIc. This means that pictures that use less than 256 colors will actually look better than they would on a 64K color mode. Of course if the picture has more than 256 colors, all bets are off.
    Brad, FM,

    Great tag-teaming on this issue. Brad, could a game developer bypass the OS APIs and directly program the hardware? Or maybe use the DirectX approach to get to the graphics controller? I bet you know where I'm going with this....
    "That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you...."
  12. #32  
    Hey Slot_Machine, mind telling me which Best Buy you were in when you saw the Clie? I am also here in Georgia and thought I might go and check it out.

    Thanks.
    In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. JOHN 14:2
  13. #33  
    Originally posted by GSR13
    Hey Slot_Machine, mind telling me which Best Buy you were in when you saw the Clie? I am also here in Georgia and thought I might go and check it out.

    Thanks.
    The Perimeter Best Buy has a display out. I think I read somewhere else that Alpharetta has at least a display also. BB has put in a new PDA display that allows you to turn on the units without a salesperson there. However you can't hold the unit, or manipulate any controls along the sides. Aggrevating, but I have a pretty good idea of the form factor thanks to all the CLIE posts out there.

    BB Perimeter Mall - new shipment Sunday
    BB Stone Mountain - new shipment Sunday
    BB Pleasant Hill - new shipment Friday or Sunday
    BB Alpharetta - don't know

    Good Luck!
    "That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you...."
  14. #34  
    This device is awesome

    But still not available in Europe.

    Hey you guys at Sony, we Europeans do also want the Clie. Don't let us wait so long!!!
  15. #35  
    I take it back - the Prism's speaker is not necessarly louder. The Clie has a slightly deeper sound and some alarms are not as loud, but a few are a bit louder than the Prism. (I use GeekSounds for my alarms.)
  16. #36  
    Originally posted by narnia_77
    I take it back - the Prism's speaker is not necessarly louder. The Clie has a slightly deeper sound and some alarms are not as loud, but a few are a bit louder than the Prism. (I use GeekSounds for my alarms.)
    Have you tried playing video yet on the 710. Does it include audio? If so, can it play the audio through the headphones as well?
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  17. #37  
    Check out this: http://www.memorystick.org/e-index.html

    Very informative about the memory sticks, especially:

    1. the Memory Stick Duo: they are smaller than SD cards

    2. the list of the companies that supports the memory sticks: there are currently 157 companies that supports or will support the memory stick technology.

    3. they mentioned a 1GB memory stick

    4. the memory sick consist of the flash memory and a controller that does these things:
    1. Controls the several flash memories.
    2. Absorbs the characteristic deviations of various flash memories.
    3. Correct errors in the accordance to the error characteristics of various flash memories.
    4. Translate information between parallel data and serial data.
    5. Check out the examples of expansion modules!!! There's

    1. GPS module
    2. Camera module
    3. Bluetooth module
    4. Microphone module
    5. Fingerprint recognition module
    6. and in developement: a TV tuner module, modem, and LAN module.

    Combine with the news that the new Motorola ARM-chip will have built-in memory stick support.
    http://discussion.visorcentral.com/v...threadid=15274

    The memory stick certainly looks more appealing.
    Fat's
  18. #38  
    Originally posted by mikedemo
    Have you tried playing video yet on the 710. Does it include audio? If so, can it play the audio through the headphones as well?
    I played the gMovie demo movies (actually clips from music videos) and a few TealMovie ones that I already had. I couldn't hear the GM clips without the headphones , but with them, they sounded great. The TM ones sounded better without the headphones - they sounded kinda "spotty" with the headphones . With the headphones plugged in, all the alarms and game sounds go through them. (I don't know if any of these are settings somewhere that can be changed - I haven't read any manuals yet.
  19. #39  
    Originally posted by Fat_Man


    huh? I don't get it? If I'm asking stuff that's being discussed before...sorry...tell me, and I'll do a search....
    j/k = just kidding
    It seemed rather humorous at the time to imply that his post - which was quite technical - was common knowledge. It's not nearly as humorous after a night's sleep. Nevermind.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  20. #40  
    Slot_Machine:

    Thanks for the info. I am only minutes from the Best Buy in Alpharetta (I work on Windward). I may head over in a bit and see if they have any on display.

    ****-Richardson:

    Actually, I thought it was kinda funny as well. Of course, I actually saw the "j/k" and got what you were referring to.

    Unfortunately, there seems to be a cut throat attitude on Boards lately that rip people up for any little thing. You almost have to type on eggshells to keep from upsetting some people. Very sad, considering I get some of the most useful information straight off the Boards.

    **I know I have less than a 100 posts, but please PUT THE STONES DOWN. I WILL NEVER GET OUT OF LINE AGAIN...**
    In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. JOHN 14:2
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