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  1.    #1  
    http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/...e_Launched.php

    Looks like it could be ok. Pretty iPhone-like transitions (but very un-iPhone stylus dependence).

    I currently use an S60 device and, imo, the absence of a touch screen and the limitations this imposes are its biggest problems. That said, and this news notwithstanding, I'll still be getting an iPhone come Nov 9.
  2.    #2  
    Bit more. Tactile feedback sounds interesting. I wonder what this means. Vibration?
  3. #3  
    Are you getting an iPhone as your only mobile device? Thats pretty limiting, especially on O2 with its 200 MB/month cap.

    Surur
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Are you getting an iPhone as your only mobile device? Thats pretty limiting, especially on O2 with its 200 MB/month cap.
    That's the plan. Like I said before, I have Wifi at home and work and the whole centre of the city in which I live has free Wifi. Add to that my local pub has Cloud Wifi (access included in the O2 package) and even Carrow Road (where I watch the increasingly depressing spectacle of Norwich City attempting to play football) has free Wifi, and I'm pretty sure I'll be fine with the 200 MB fair usage policy. In fact, given that it will be (at best) EDGE speeds, I suspect it will be more than enough. Might not work out, but we'll see. At least I really will be back to carrying one device again (currently I carry the E61 and an iPod Nano).
    Last edited by marcol; 10/16/2007 at 08:58 AM.
  5. #5  
    Anyone of you loyal subjects familiar with the High Wycombe area? Any way to know if free WiFi is available?
    .....Life is But Such Sweet Sorrow.....
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Merovingian View Post
    Anyone of you loyal subjects familiar with the High Wycombe area? Any way to know if free WiFi is available?
    This suggests there are a few, and all McDonald's will soon have completely free WIFI in UK.
    http://www.myhotspots.co.uk/results....High%20Wycombe

    Surur
  7.    #7  
    Here's another directory:

    http://wifi.lycos.co.uk/hotspot/search

    List for High Wycombe is a bit different but not a whole lot rosier I'm afraid.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/...e_Launched.php

    Looks like it could be ok. Pretty iPhone-like transitions (but very un-iPhone stylus dependence).

    I currently use an S60 device and, imo, the absence of a touch screen and the limitations this imposes are its biggest problems. That said, and this news notwithstanding, I'll still be getting an iPhone come Nov 9.
    It does look good, but the use of the styli disturbs me a bit because I think that Nokia could have taken a page out of their use of Mameo and done something a bit better.

    Haptic feedback is great.

    Give me US3G on an N81 8GB sided device with this touchscreen tech and I'd leave my Treo for good.
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.
  9. #9  
    Maybe they are forced into having stylus support by actually having advanced configurable devices with a lot of options.

    If you have only one option (send by e-mail) for a picture you can obviously afford one big button.

    If your menu includes Send by e-mail, send by MMS, send by bluetooth, set as wallpaper etc then finger-type menus get pretty crowded.

    Its funny how kids paint with their fingers and then get taught to use pencils and brushes...

    Surur
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Maybe they are forced into having stylus support by actually having advanced configurable devices with a lot of options.

    If you have only one option (send by e-mail) for a picture you can obviously afford one big button.

    If your menu includes Send by e-mail, send by MMS, send by bluetooth, set as wallpaper etc then finger-type menus get pretty crowded.

    Its funny how kids paint with their fingers and then get taught to use pencils and brushes...
    Your last line is an interesting one. In terms of user interface, the fact that one has to learn to use a stylus does say a lot. Same can be said for keyboards. Instinct is to point and touch. I wonder if Apple, Nokia, et all are really looking to de-evolve input methods to that more or less instinctful state. Would be neat to say the least.
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.
  11. #11  
    "When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things."

    Children also wet their pants. Moving towards a childish interface is anything but progress.

    Surur
    Last edited by surur; 10/17/2007 at 12:02 PM.
  12. #12  
    According to that Apple must then really have folks running in the wrong direction ;-)

    Apps that utilize simple user flows and schemes are anything but simple when done right (Palm OS UI for instance).

    Love the Scripture quote though. I would have quoted another, but it was that bickering over what gift was best that made what you quoted...interesting.
    Last edited by Antoine of MMM; 10/18/2007 at 07:25 AM.
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Maybe they are forced into having stylus support by actually having advanced configurable devices with a lot of options.

    If you have only one option (send by e-mail) for a picture you can obviously afford one big button.

    If your menu includes Send by e-mail, send by MMS, send by bluetooth, set as wallpaper etc then finger-type menus get pretty crowded.
    I see what you're saying but the limit is obviously much more than one button per screen. Examples of multiple options on a single screen for a finger-based UI:






    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Its funny how kids paint with their fingers and then get taught to use pencils and brushes...
    You might like these:



  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Antoine of MMM View Post
    It does look good, but the use of the styli disturbs me a bit because I think that Nokia could have taken a page out of their use of Mameo and done something a bit better.
    Also, stylus = no capacitive screen (I think). That's bad (for durability and viewability at least).
  15. #15  
    Capacitive screen also means no stylus, or gloves, or long nails, or pens, which is worse.

    Surur
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    I see what you're saying but the limit is obviously much more than one button per screen. Examples of multiple options on a single screen for a finger-based UI:
    ...
    iPhone's interface is a perfect example of you can't put alot of control/power on a finger based GUI. Have you used the iPhone for more than a couple days? You can't switch shuffle on and off easily. It's a hell lot harder to get to than the traditional iPods.

    And its very hard to switch to a different playlist/particular song from a different album. For example, if you are listening to a podcast/song and want to jump to a different podcast/song, you have to physically make the phone vertical (usually with a little bit of shake, otherwise the vertical-ness won't register), that's the only screen you can access the "album" or "podcast" button, and then you have to press it, which still keep the phone vertical, because it will go back to "cover flow" whenever you "lay down" the phone, go to the album and then go to the song. Do you see how much more work is there? I can do this almost without looking with the older iPod and the Treo. In fact I can trigger stop, play, next and fast forward while my Treo is in my pocket. You can't do that with the iPhone because without taking it out and looking at it you can't unlock it.

    Nokia knew touching is a fad, that's why they are the last to support it. How ever they can't afford to not getting on the bandwagon. Heh.
  17.    #17  
    Never used an iPhone so I can't really comment on the specifics (of course that will all change on November 9th when it's released in the UK ) but my understanding is that pause, play and skip can be controlled with the headphones. Currently I use V-Moda Vibes for out-and-about listening and there's precisely no chance of my switching to the stock buds, but V-Moda now make Vibes with the same control buttons so I can always splash even more cash if that becomes an issue. Not trying to downplay the rest of what you said. The reorientation thing sounds pretty bad and if I have the same problems you did, I can't see me taking to the iPhone at all. The music is a major part of the attraction. Having said that, I've been reading posts over at MacRumors for a while and I don't recall hearing of the problem you report - doesn't mean no one has mentioned it (I haven't read everything posted) but it doesn't seem to be a common gripe at least. I also haven't seen it in those 'X reasons you shouldn't buy an iPhone' articles the catchpenny media seem to favour (there was a particularly bad one at Times on-line today).

    Anyway, my main point was a general one in response to Surur's comment that 'If you have only one option (send by e-mail) for a picture you can obviously afford one big button'. Just pointing out that even with a finger-based UI you can have many buttons on a screen.

    With respect to Treos I'll say this: I've used three for music (two 600s and a 650) - they all sounded like crap.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7 View Post
    iPhone's interface is a perfect example of you can't put alot of control/power on a finger based GUI. Have you used the iPhone for more than a couple days? You can't switch shuffle on and off easily. It's a hell lot harder to get to than the traditional iPods.

    And its very hard to switch to a different playlist/particular song from a different album. For example, if you are listening to a podcast/song and want to jump to a different podcast/song, you have to physically make the phone vertical (usually with a little bit of shake, otherwise the vertical-ness won't register), that's the only screen you can access the "album" or "podcast" button, and then you have to press it, which still keep the phone vertical, because it will go back to "cover flow" whenever you "lay down" the phone, go to the album and then go to the song. Do you see how much more work is there? I can do this almost without looking with the older iPod and the Treo. In fact I can trigger stop, play, next and fast forward while my Treo is in my pocket. You can't do that with the iPhone because without taking it out and looking at it you can't unlock it.

    Nokia knew touching is a fad, that's why they are the last to support it. How ever they can't afford to not getting on the bandwagon. Heh.
    What you describe isn't why touchscreen support isn't good, you are making the case for better thinking on the part of *making the interface work efficiently.* Those are different.

    Haptic feedback will help the muscle memory aspect of things, considerably even. Given though the issues S60 has with its UI as it is, I don't think it will be much differnt than remmebering your way through a maze.

    Exposing functionaliy in layers should be the point of any UI, and there are many ways to do this. When you add that element of a touchscreen, you cannot just take conventions that work for stylus or button driven environments and go from there, you have to rethink and redo EVERYTHING. If you don't you end up with a 1/2 effort (Palm) or a 4/5 effort (Apple). If in Nokia's UI they expose parts that work from a touch, but on the same layer parts that work with a stylus, then it lacks in fluidity, and we all end up complaining on a broken UX. My argument that interfaces should be more childlike speaks towards not wanting that brokeness, but as one develops comfort, then this can be exposed. If you call it a touchscreen but I have to make the extra step of pulling out a stylus to do something as simple as sending a message, then I am not in that childlike metaphor, but that of an athlete with a broken ACL -- a stick only holding me as fast as it can hit the ground.
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.

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