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  1. #41  
    Who wants to bet that Good Technology will make a version of their AudioPlayer that has an SD connector a top
    Originally posted by dietrichbohn
    Not me. More likely they'll use the universal connector. Less hassle with the connection, less likely to snap off. With the connector there, the only thing I think will use the sd slot is a modem.
    I couldn't agree more.
  2. #42  
    Originally posted by bblue
    I try and post here as often as I can, however simply because I don't have the time to provide links to 20 sites for each individual does NOT mean I cannot back up what I say.
    It doesn't mean you can either. But if you have enough time to complain about not having enough time, then you probably do have enough time to copy and paste a couple of links to keep us masses at bay.

    Originally posted by bblue
    ( I know who is gonna comment on this, and why, so don't bother.)
    Too late.

    Is it possible to make small modules for the Palm's expansion slot? Probably, but the questions are how small, when, and how much money. I just don't believe that the Palm SD/MMC can beat out the Springboard "overall" when considering these factors.
  3. #43  
    Originally posted by bblue
    2) To Toby:
    * Stop the flames, please.
    bblue, actually you are not being flamed.

    If you are being flamed, then we would just called you an ***** with no further explanation.

    But in truth you are not being flamed, because people on this tread are calling you an ***** and they are providing detailed information that contradicts almost every one of your unsupported statements and assertions.

    There's a difference!!
    Last edited by Fat_Man; 05/21/2001 at 12:18 AM.
    Fat's
  4. #44  
    This article from Fortune.com: "Has Palm Lost Its Grip?"
    http://www.fortune.com/indexw.jhtml?...&doc_id=202515

    Some highlights:
    It's ironic that a company known for helping people plan and schedule could be so ham-handed in managing its own affairs, but such is the case with Palm... . Bungled product launches, increasing competition, and a souring economy have all conspired to loosen Palm's grip on the market it helped shape. And the company's long-term obstacles are daunting. Its closest rival, Handspring, has become more innovative than Palm.
    Palm will have a tough time correcting those near-term missteps, in part because its role in the marketplace has changed from lead innovator to also-ran. In 1998, fed up with 3Com's limited vision for the handheld maker, Palm founders Jeff Hawkins and Donna Dubinsky resigned. Hawkins had been designing handheld computers since the late 1980s and was the brains behind the original Palm Pilot, the Palm V, and the wireless Palm VII. Since Hawkins' departure, Palm has yet to release a single device that hadn't been conceived by its former CEO. Even the m500 and the m505 are mere revisions of the Palm V. Within weeks of exiting Palm, Hawkins and Dubinsky founded Handspring. The company introduced its flagship Visor 14 months later and won a 21% market share in little more than a year, helping knock Palm's share down from 83% to 63%.
    In the article, it mentioned several times that Palm is lacking in innovation: "Handspring, has become more innovative than Palm." and [Palm] "has changed from lead innovator to also-ran." As matter of fact, according to the article, Palm has not done anything significant since Hawkins's and Dubinsky's departure.

    This was one of my biggest dissatisfaction with Palm. I think that they would be in a much better shape if they actually use their R&D department. Sony, HandEra, and Handspring have taken the lead in developing new ideas and applications for the Palm OS.
    Last edited by Fat_Man; 05/20/2001 at 11:27 PM.
    Fat's
  5. #45  
    I can't believe I just found this thread.

    How can there be arguing, and I am not the center? Bah.
  6. #46  
    Originally posted by timmins
    How can there be arguing, and I am not the center? Bah.
    ROTFL, Timmins. Don't worry, you'll get a piece soon enough, if I know bblue.
  7. #47  
    Originally posted by Fat_Man
    This article from Fortune.com:

    FM,

    I couldn't agree more with this article and your opinion about innovation@palm. Yankoff is not an inspired leader. He is a corporate jockey who just happens to be riding the first horse that came along. It's digusting.

    On another subject. I've been reading BBLUE's posts for about a week now and have come to the conclusion that his only real point is to stir the pot.
    "That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you...."
  8. #48  
    Originally posted by bblue
    I'll be updating the original post on this !soon! with some of the proof you guys have been requesting!
    Good. Now all you have to remember is that next time you want to start a post like this, you should provide the proof in the original message. It saves time since it reduces the amount of time that you'll have to spend defending weak points.

    I won't be posting some of the changed information in replies, to better prevent this from becoming a flame war.
    You know, if you really wanted to prevent 'flame wars', you wouldn't post things like:
    Finally, to keep things cool, can we turn down the stupidity in here?
    If you're going to accuse the opposing viewpoints of being stupid, then you deserve whatever you get in return.

    I would delete this entire thread, except that I'm sticking to my original theory.

    Oh yes, everything else can be found on the first post.
    Your original theory included at least two fabrications (which I've quoted previously), so this doesn't speak well of your argument.

    And please note,
    I try and post here as often as I can, however simply because I don't have the time to provide links to 20 sites for each individual does NOT mean I cannot back up what I say.
    Neither does it mean you can, and if you have time to post some of the drivel that you have in this thread, then you surely would have had time to provide proof for your assertions and saved everyone some time from responding to your shaky premises.

    It means I don't have time!
    Then don't post it in the first place. Simple deduction.

    It's not a hard deduction!
    It's actually an illogical deduction. You claim to have no time and hence cannot always back up your assertions. Yet, you post lots of other frivilous stuff. Hence, you really _do_ have time, but choose to spend it on things that detract from a rational discourse instead of enhance it.

    ( I know who is gonna comment on this, and why, so don't bother.)
    If you really knew who, what, and why, then you should have realized that the criticisms were deserved and hence should not have made your weak excuses. It's not a hard deduction!

    I will get them to you though, since I know that some people cannot actually find something else out on their own!
    That sound you keep hearing is the point that several have been trying to make which keeps whizzing by above your head. You make posts in which you claim to have certain bits of knowledge. You then make WAGs based on these supposed bits of knowledge. Unless you provide proof of these bits of knowledge, no one is obliged to accept your premises, and hence your argument falls like a house of cards. "You raise your voice when you should reinforce your argument." - Samuel Johnson
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  9. #49  
    My first and only response to Bblue on this thread:

    A wise man talks because he has something to say, a fool talks because he has to say something
    Last edited by Slot_Machine; 05/21/2001 at 03:28 PM.
    "That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you...."
  10. #50  
    Originally posted by Slot_Machine
    My first and only response to Bblue on this thread:

    A wise man talks becase he has something to say, a fool talks because he has to say something
    Well said, Slot_Machine!!

    IMHO, it's pretty clear that bblue is just trying to elicit responses rather he is truely clueless or trolling really does not matter. Bblue's arguments are weak and unsubstantiated. Maybe bblue and CEO Carl Y-what's-his-name are related.
    Fat's
  11. #51  
    Originally posted by acraniotes
    Besides, the Clie is still too big for my pockets(I've actually held one, so I'm not guessing here).
    -Adam [/B]
    Obviously, the older Clie. But, in my honest opinion, is a lot smaller than your iPaq you boast of. Have you seen some of these people with the dual cartridges holding a compact flash and a wireless modem? Man, are we losing the concept of Pocket in PocketPC. Don't get me wrong, I see one... I still drool, but if you're going to knock a handheld for being big... the iPaq has to be the biggest.
  12. #52  
    This is my attempt to chronical the fall of Palm.

    Anatomy of the Palm screw-up Part 1:

    I. Pinnacle: late 1990's
    Palm was at the peak of it's power and dominance. Palm not only withstood the Microsoft PocketPC challenge, but retaliated and claimed over 90% of the handheld computer market. The "Palm Pilot" became an icon.

    II. The beginning: THE MISTAKE #1-1998
    "In 1998, fed up with 3Com's limited vision for the handheld maker, Palm founders Jeff Hawkins and Donna Dubinsky resigned. Hawkins had been designing handheld computers since the late 1980s and was the brains behind the original Palm Pilot, the Palm V, and the wireless Palm VII." from Fortune.com. Later that year, Hawkins and Dubinsky founded Handspring.

    Palm evenually did split from 3Com.

    III. Mistake #2
    Palm hired Carl Yankowski, as new CEO. Yankowski apparently took that "keep it simple" philosophy to heart, set Palm on curise control and did little to spearhead his company to the forefont of R&D.

    IV. Mistake #3
    Palm decided to license its OS the other developers with the agreement that all modifications done to the OS will automatically return to Palm. The license agreement was for royaly of less than $10 per unit. This is their idea for the developement of the "Palm community". Only problem was while other licensees are making the improvements, Palm was at a standstill (see Mistake #2). As a result, licensees are producing better more innovative products that cannabolized Palm's own market shares.

    V. First Threat and lack of response: Mistake #4 1999
    Handspring, a company formed by the original developers of the Palm Pilot: Jeff Hawkins and Donna Dubinsky, released their own Palm OS handheld: the Visor Deluxe and Visor Solo. In addition to a much cheaper price-tag, the Handspring models were full of modifications: USB hotsynch, 8MB of internal memory, and most important, the SpringBoard slot.

    For the first time, the Palm handheld had the potential to be more than an electronic organizer. Handspring introduced the concept of expansion via different SpringBoard modules, the Visor can be transformed into an MP3 player, digital camera, internet surfing tool, cell-phone, pager, GPS, the possibilities are nearly endless.

    Palm failed to respond to Handspring, no price changes, no new models, no USB hotsynch. They merely began to offer the "e" palm models with 8MB of memory.(see Mistake #2)

    As a result, Handspring took 21% of Palm's market in less than a year!!

    VI: Mistake #5: still no response
    Unlike Palm, Handspring continue to improve and introduced two more models, the Visor Platinum and the Visor Prism. These models incorporated new technology and innovations, 33mhz processors and 16-bit color. Along with these new models, more and more SpringBoard modules are materalizing.

    Palm still failed to respond except to lower the price fo their color handheld model, the IIIc. No new models, no improvements to existing models.(see Mistake #2)

    VIII. Mistake #6: no awareness of the economy
    Last year the company struggled to meet demand for its gadgets. In November executives decided to solve that problem by signing a handful of long-term deals that guaranteed a steady supply of components. The contracts locked Palm into high purchase volumes that it doesn't necessarily need now. Despite another round of price cuts, Palm's inventory pileup could surpass $300 million by the end of June, which will hurt sales of new products and force the company to burn through roughly half of its available cash this quarter. Palm may also have to take a write-off.
    In other words, Palm are locked into contracts for components, so as the economy slow and the demand decrease, coupled with the new m500/m505 models, Palm had built up an inventory that it can not move. As a result, $300 million of Palm's money is on the shelf.


    IX: Mistake #7: Handspring introduced another model, the Edge: Palm finally responds, but...
    Palm not responding to Handspring's previous models, finally responds to the Edge with the announcement of their new m500 and the much anticipated color m505, but the availability date was 2 months later!! Since the m500/m505 were so similiar to the Palm V, this caused a huge back-up of the Palm V's as people stopped buying the Palm V and waited for the m500 and m505. This contributed to the $300 million inventory mentioned above.

    To be cont...(what do you think so far?)
    Last edited by Fat_Man; 05/21/2001 at 11:56 PM.
    Fat's
  13. #53  
    Originally posted by Fat_Man
    This is my attempt to chronical the fall of Palm.
    ....To be cont...(what do you think so far?)
    Great job FM. In reviewing this, its clear that Palm has had so many missed oppourtunites, you don't have to "flame out" to make a loud ringing case. Thank heavens the Hawkins crew jumped in time. Yankoff has run this company like a public utility, when he should have run it like a startup; lean, fast, and mean.

    On a brighter note, I hear there's a tract of land in Silicon Valley availible that's priced to sell....
    "That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you...."
  14. #54  
    Originally posted by bblue

    2) To Toby:
    * Stop the flames, please. Products & Companies are fair game, but people I try to stay away from. (and usually I'm just kidding)
    The same for Dicksy.

    Almost directly hypocritical
  15. #55  
    Keep up the good work Fat_Man.

    I truly think Handspring or Sony should buy Palm before Palm kills their own platform.
    Last edited by mikedemo; 05/21/2001 at 06:22 PM.
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  16. #56  
    I thionk the Visor Edge was in response to the M500 not the other way around. The M500 was unofficially announced long before Handspring came out with the Visor Edge. Overall though, a great effort.

    There is no need for Sony to by Palm. Sony Clie is just one of hundreds of products that Sony makes. As such, the Palm OS would not benefit under them. Handspring OTOH is a PDA company and they get thier bread and butter fro selling PDAs. They would be a better owner for the OS.
  17. #57  
    I have a question, do any of you think that its possible that palm could run out of operating capital and go out of business? If so, what would that do to the palmOS market. Also, FatMan, beautiful analysis of palms fall from power. But I agree that the Edge was meant to respond to m50x not the other way around. Handspring knew what was coming, and they knew it was coming soon, so they came out with a new PalmVish design as fast as possible, and they just happened to beat palm.
  18. #58  
    Oh sorry, I guess you guys are right in that the Edge was Handspring's response to the m500.

    But either way, rather it was because of picture leaks or Handspring's announcement of the Edge, Palm unwisely and prematurely announced the m500 and m505. I think everybody would agree that this move was a mistake and had severe repercussion for Palm.

    ok...Part 2 coming up...
    Fat's
  19. #59  
    Part 2 of Anatomy of the Palm screw-up

    X. Mistake #8: the m505's screen
    The highly anticipated m505 was suppose to be the end-all of the high-end Palms. The expectations on the unit border-lined on perfection:
    1. Palm V form-factor
    2. 16-bit color screen
    3. reflective screen technology that allowed viewing in both indoor and outdoor environments
    4. SD slot with expansion capability that would rival that of Handspring
    5. 33mhz processor
    6. a rechargable lithium polymer battery
    7. USB hotsych

    ...and many other hopes and wishes from increase resolution to built-in internet connectivity.

    With that much expectations embodied into the m505, you know that disappointment is inevitable. There were already rumors about the m505's screen brightness. When the m505's were release, the response from most respectable reviewers were luke-warm with main criticism directed at the m505's disappointing screen quality.

    XI. Mistake #9: m505's unadjustable screen contrast
    Palm claims that the contrast was purposely set lower to safe battery-life. Instead of letting the user decide on contrast vs. battery-life, Palm made the contrast unadjustable.

    XII. Rumors and hoax
    Soon after the release of the m505, there were rumors that that units assembled in Hungary were slightly poorer in quality than units assembled in the US. There was a hoax about a squence of actions that would increase the contrast of the m505. These rumors and hoax may serve to decrease consumer confidence in the m505 and may affect future sales. Regardless of how these rumors and hoax may affect Palm in the future, they did convey and confirm how badly the consumers are looking for a way the improve the m505's screen.

    XIII. Mistake #10: upstaged by SONY Clie and HandEra
    SONY
    SONY's previous model of the Clie PEG-S300 failed to catch much attention in the US market and their color PEG-S500 model did so bad in Japan that it didn't even make it to the US. So basically everyone forgot about the SONY Clie. The electronic giant SONY annouced the Clie PEG-N700C in Japan shortly after Handspring introduced the Edge and before Palm made the m500 and m505 announcement. The Clie N700C was stunning with color 320x320 resolution screen, and multi-media capabilities, something that everyone thought was impossible in the current Palm OS. The Clie N700C got comsumers thinking "Why didn't the m505 have that?"
    SONY released the Clie PEG-N710C in the US recently basically the same as the N700C, but with the addition of MP3 playability.

    HandEra
    The company formerly known as TRGpro, announced their all-new model the HandEra 330. If the Sony Clie was Jazz, then the HandEra is straight country music, the working man's PDA. HandEra was function over form. HandEra packed the 330 with dual SD and CF slot, increase resolution, soft graffiti area, and voice recorder/player. The HandEra 330 got consumers to again ask "Why didn't the m505 have that?"

    The more these type of questions the consumers ask, the shakier their confidence in the product.

    Conclusion:

    First of all, I know and acknownledge that the m505's screen quality is subjected to personal perference, but there are enough bad to luke-warm criticisms out that may sway public opinion. Basically, if enough people called something a duck, it will start to look like a duck.

    Palm's other criticism is basically why didn't they do more to the m500 and m505(see Mistake #2) . In light of the advancements seen in the SONY Clie and HandEra 330, the Palm m500 and m505 basically incorporated the past advancements of its licensees into the m500 and m505.

    This leads to...

    Mistake #11: Snowballing
    The lack of advancements when compared to other new handheld from HandEra and SONY, the huge $300 million inventory back-up, the shaky enconomy, the dire profit projections, the erosion of consumer confidence, the screen quality complaints of its flagship model, and the plunge of its stocks have send Palm into a period of uncertainly and crisis.

    Hard to believe that a company so strong and dominant 2 years ago can plummet to its current position.

    End...
    Last edited by Fat_Man; 05/21/2001 at 11:58 PM.
    Fat's
  20. #60  
    Combined to above
    Last edited by Fat_Man; 05/21/2001 at 11:49 PM.
    Fat's
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