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  1.    #1  
    Sony's first try at a color Clie (PEG-S500C) was a distaster. The S500C was released in Japan, it drew major criticism because of the dimness and dullness of the screen.

    Sound familiar?!?!

    Because of the vast amount criticism, the S500C never made it out of Japan, Sony mercifully killed it.

    Well, I did a little research and located some pictures of the S500 next to the new Clie PEG-N700C (Japanese version)and recent picture of the m505 next to the new Clie PEG-N710C:

    Look familiar?!?!


    PEG-S500C vs. PEG-N700C


    m505 vs. PEG-N710C

    Here's another picture of the S500C next to N700C:



    OK...What do you think?

    Yeah... I know the m505's screen IS brighter than the S500C. I am not trying to imply that the m505's is as bad as the S500C.

    The point is, Palm should have learned from Sony's mistake; that a dim screen would draw a lot of unfavorable criticism and apparently it did!!
    Last edited by Fat_Man; 05/12/2001 at 02:30 AM.
    Fat's
  2. #2  
    Another wise move was to get rid of those "guide rails?" along the sides of the original units.
    "That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you...."
  3. #3  
    Fat_Man

    The M505 is a dud like many have told me.

    Thanks a lot for those pics. I am now certain that I will not buy an M505 when that gorgeous hi-res N710C screen is soon to be released here.

    (Prism has the best color fidelity I've seen on and Palm yet)
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  4. #4  
    Originally posted by Slot_Machine
    Another wise move was to get rid of those "guide rails?" along the sides of the original units.
    Amen to that. That piece faux industrial design almost single-handedly killed any enthusiam I might have had for the original Clié.
  5. #5  
    You're looking at it all wrong.

    First off, the Palm CAN have a dim screen for one major reason:
    Reflective Display.

    Because of this, the backlight is not relied upon so heavily, and even better, in broad daylight, it looks even better than a Prism. In fact, it's the ONLY handheld I've seen that has color AND can be used in daylight!

    In dark conditions, the screen looks just fine too, it's in the half-light situations that seem to plauge Palms. Otherwise, the screen looks nice.

    SO, unlike the old CLIE, if you're not satisfied with the Palm Backlight, I'm sure there will be a clip-on light for it in the near future.

    Personally, I think people enjoy criticizing Palm.
    <b><font size=1 color=teal>"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"
  6.    #6  
    Originally posted by bblue
    You're looking at it all wrong.

    First off, the Palm CAN have a dim screen for one major reason: Reflective Display.

    Because of this, the backlight is not relied upon so heavily, and even better, in broad daylight, it looks even better than a Prism. In fact, it's the ONLY handheld I've seen that has color AND can be used in daylight!

    In dark conditions, the screen looks just fine too, it's in the half-light situations that seem to plauge Palms. Otherwise, the screen looks nice.

    SO, unlike the old CLIE, if you're not satisfied with the Palm Backlight, I'm sure there will be a clip-on light for it in the near future.

    Personally, I think people enjoy criticizing Palm.
    1. The m505 is not the only handheld that has color and can be used in daylight. Compaq Ipaq and Sony N710C. Where have you been?

    2. A reflective screen does not mean that a handheld can be dim, there are PDA's out there that have reflective screens and are pretty bright.

    3. Most of the time when people do use their handhelds are indoors situations, and many are under "half-light" conditions.

    4. Who wants to attach a clip-on light to the m505, won't that ruin the whole issue about the form factor?
    Fat's
  7. #7  
    To me, the most interesting thing about the whole m505 screen discussion is that the people who are the most critical, are the people who haven't used one. A number of people have looked at one for a couple of minutes in the store, but I'm not sure they even knew enough to turn the sidelight on.

    Very few people that have used it for any amount of time have been critical. Yeah, of course a few have, but by and large, people that have used it for a few days think that it is fine. Anybody that uses an m505 for any amount of time outside won't want to use anything else. People that use the m505 under bright flourescent office lighting don't have any complaints either.

    My suggestion to most of the posters on this thread, would be to actually use something before criticizing it. Second-hand opinions are just about as valuable as any other second-hand item.
  8. #8  
    Originally posted by bradhaak
    . . . My suggestion to most of the posters on this thread, would be to actually use something before criticizing it. Second-hand opinions are just about as valuable as any other second-hand item.

    I've seen it and held it. played with it a bit. Held it next to Prism. I find the M505 display the worst of the relective screens. The Clie N710c and the iPaq Are much brighter.

    The only good reason I think Palm made their screen too dim is because the want more battery life.
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  9. #9  
    Originally posted by mikedemo


    I've seen it and held it. played with it a bit. Held it next to Prism. I find the M505 display the worst of the relective screens. The Clie N710c and the iPaq Are much brighter.
    Did you compare it to a Prism outside? How about in a dark room? How about in a bright florescent office environment? Did you use it for a couple of days to see how it functioned in the real world? Personally, very few people are going to use it in the kind of dim lighting that is in a store. That was the point of my previous post.

    In real world use, I think that the m505 display is greatly superior to the Prism and while this is very subjective, I think that you would probably agree that since I own both and have extensively used both in a wide variety of environments, my opinion is probably slightly more informed than your own. My opinion is strong enough that since I got the m505, I have not even been tempted to take the Prism out of the cradle. It is now firmly a has-been debug machine.

    I am also curious about your statement of superiority of the Clie N710c display. How much have you used it? I agree that it is potentially very good, but pictures aren't a reasonable way to rate the screen. I have seen a lot of hi-res panels that hum, that flicker, and that shimmer. None of these show up in a photo, and possibly not even in hand assembled preproduction units. Until you hold a production unit in you hands and use it for a few days, statements of superiority just make you look gullible.



    The only good reason I think Palm made their screen too dim is because the want more battery life.
    No kidding. This has been covered by everyone that has written about the m505 (including Palm themselves).

    On this same subject, did you see the pre-production review of the Clie N710c that said that while playing music, the battery life was only a couple of hours? The unit is not big enough to have a battery that can run that bright of a display and run an entirely separate computer (in the same case) to provide audio playback.
  10. #10  
    Originally posted by mikedemo


    I've seen it and held it. played with it a bit. Held it next to Prism. I find the M505 display the worst of the relective screens. The Clie N710c and the iPaq Are much brighter.
    Did you compare it to a Prism outside? How about in a dark room? How about in a bright florescent office environment? Did you use it for a couple of days to see how it functioned in the real world? Personally, very few people are going to use it in the kind of dim lighting that is in a store. That was the point of my previous post.

    In real world use, I think that the m505 display is greatly superior to the Prism and while this is very subjective, I think that you would probably agree that since I own both and have extensively used both in a wide variety of environments, my opinion is probably slightly more informed than your own. My opinion is strong enough that since I got the m505, I have not even been tempted to take the Prism out of the cradle. It is now firmly a has-been debug machine.

    I am also curious about your statement of superiority of the Clie N710c display. How much have you used it? I agree that it is potentially very good, but pictures aren't a reasonable way to rate the screen. I have seen a lot of hi-res panels that hum, that flicker, and that shimmer. None of these show up in a photo, and possibly not even in hand assembled preproduction units. Until you hold a production unit in you hands and use it for a few days, statements of superiority just make you look gullible.



    The only good reason I think Palm made their screen too dim is because the want more battery life.
    No kidding. This has been covered by everyone that has written about the m505 (including Palm themselves).

    On this same subject, did you see the pre-production review of the Clie N710c that said that while playing music, the battery life was only a couple of hours? The unit is not big enough to have a battery that can run that bright of a display and run an entirely separate computer (in the same case) to provide audio playback.
  11. #11  
    Sorry about the double post - IE kinda freaked on me...
  12. #12  
    Good point braadhack. If you actually read the reviews, the people who actually use this from day to day have actually liked it quite well.

    Why?

    This is mostly hype. Ok, I was wrong about it being the only PDA with a reflective screen. However, after going to Staples and evaluating it, I found it perfectly acceptable. Even under florescent lighting it was dandy, if not better than my Visor Deluxe. (then again, what isn't?)

    I also got to use a friends who got his as an evaluation unit, and I got to take it out in broad daylight. Looked fine.

    It's not up to the Prism's standards, but I think this has been blown out of perspective by Palm-bashers & Prism owners. For the size of the M505, I'd say it's spectacular.... for now.

    In the overall PDA Market, it'll do the job, but I would evaluate one IRL before buying.

    And I don't go near PocketPC's anymore. Don't get me started.
    <b><font size=1 color=teal>"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"
  13. #13  
    bradhaak

    I just think that after the great invatitions from Handspring, Sony, & Handera that Palm would have made a bigger step in innovation. I still think the M505 has the best form factor. But The Sony Clie N710c 320x320 relfelective and bright screen totally dwarfs the M505. The photo above says it all. I got a color device because I wanna see graphics nice bright and vivid.

    I just expected more from Palm thats all.
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  14. #14  
    Hey bblue,

    And I don't go near PocketPC's anymore.
    I'm buying an iPaq tomorrow over a Sony Clie. For the SAME EXACT price, I get SOO much more in the iPaq.

    Whats wrong with iPaqs??? Samo will probably be happy with me.

    Let me know if you read this Samo, you haven't sent me an e-mail in a while :-)
    <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" id="all" leftmargin="10" topmargin="10" marginwidth="10" marginheight="10" link="#000000" vlink="#000000" alink="#000000">

    <img src="http://www.msnbc.com/d/v/130x100/n_bush_accept_001213.jpg">

    <br><b><font color="#0000FF" size="2">Proudly led by "Dubya"</font></b></center>

    </body>
  15. #15  
    I think you'll be pleasantly surprised Yaz320! Wait till you see how much the OS mimics the real Windows!


    --- uh oh, those scary looking guys from Microsoft are back...
    <b><font size=1 color=teal>"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"
  16.    #16  
    You've made some very good points, Brad. You are right in that you cannot really judge the m505's screen until you use it for a few days. So I guess that an in-store judge may not be entirely fair. I first saw a m505 last saturday, and truthfully the screen did not change my opionion (maybe I was bias beforehand). Under the florescence lights of Office Office, I had slight difficulty viewing the screen, it appears that to get the maximal reflective brightness, I had to angle the m505 slightly to view the screen. The backlight helped slightly.

    My second point is that I agree with Mikedemo. Palm has seriously lagged behind its licensees, namely, Handspring and Sony. The m505 and m500 was suppose to be Palm's "next generation" of Palm V's, full of improvements and innovations.

    However

    If you trace the origins of the major new features of the m500 and m505, they did not come from Palm, but they came from Palm's licensees.

    Major m505/m500 features (first developed in)

    1. 33 mhz processor (Handspring Prism/Platinum)
    2. 16-bit color (Handspring Prism)
    3. SD card slot and VFS access (Sony Clie)
    4. reflective screen (Sony Clie S500C)

    I thought that Palm should be leading in the research and development division, not sitting back and leech off its licensees.

    That would mean that Palm will always be 6-8 months late to offer any new/re-created features into their next handheld. In other word, Palm will always be late in the cutting-edge features market.

    That's a bigger disappointment than the screen.
    Fat's
  17. #17  
    Originally posted by Fat_Man
    . . . Palm has seriously lagged behind its licensees, namely, Handspring and Sony. The m505 and m500 was suppose to be Palm's "next generation" of Palm V's, full of improvements and innovations. . .

    . . . I thought that Palm should be leading in the research and development division, not sitting back and leech off its licensees. . .
    Ditto
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  18. #18  
    Originally posted by Fat_Man
    I thought that Palm should be leading in the research and development division, not sitting back and leech off its licensees.
    I think most people take Palm for granted and don't give them enough credit for innovation:

    1. Palm invented the thin PDA (V/Vx). It took HS quite a while to come out with the competing Edge product, for example.

    2. Integrating everything together is an innovation in itself. Otherwise you'd have to buy a Prism, a Clie and a Vx to get all those things you mentioned.

    3. Palm is still the only company that has a PalmOS PDA with integrated wireless connectivity, and that will be updated soon.

    4. They're doing all that ARM-based PalmOS 5 stuff.

    Of course the licensees have done a lot of great work too. But I don't see any reason why Palm should be the "main" innovator -- and if they were, then people would just turn around and complain that HS/Handera/Sony weren't leading!
  19. #19  
    Originally posted by dalamar70
    I think most people take Palm for granted and don't give them enough credit for innovation:

    1. Palm invented the thin PDA (V/Vx). It took HS quite a while to come out with the competing Edge product, for example.

    3. Palm is still the only company that has a PalmOS PDA with integrated wireless connectivity, and that will be updated soon.
    I'm not so sure that it's fair to consider these Palm's innovations since they weren't done under the leadership of the current Palm people. They were done under the leadership of _Handspring's_ current people (although the Palm VII was supposedly done under duress).
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  20. #20  
    The current Palm Chief has made some comments that make him sound like "Joe CEO" who is just doing a stint at Palm before he moves on to bigger and better things. He'd drop Palm and run a watermelon company if the price was right.
    "That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you...."
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