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  1.    #1  
    If any of you haven't noticed, PocketPC's have been steadily gaining on palms. The reasons being, faster process, better programs, games especially, better audio, and more innovation. So here's my question, why should anyone today spend 400-500 on a new color palm when they can get a Casio EM500 for 400 dollars, or a jornada 548 for 450? It just seems stupid to spend justas much money for a product that isn't as good.
  2. #2  
    I considered getting a ppc BUT there was 1 problem,

    LACK OF SOFTWARE!!!

    If you go to palmgear.com, there is hundreds of thousands of software at reasonable price.

    At all the ppc sites, I could not find more than 100 apps, and they were all unreasonably priced.

    Other than programs, i think ppc has palm os beat.
  3. #3  
    Ease of use. Battery life. Syncs very easily with my computer. Developer support.
    Last edited by dick-richardson; 05/10/2001 at 11:12 PM.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  4. #4  
    Palm devices have nothing to worry about as long as they don't try to be PPC's (CLIE). PPC and Palm are two different markets. There are more potential Palm buyers than there are PPC buyers. That $450 Jomada is so stripped down its like buying a car without the pistons.

    Given the current, I repeat CURRENT state of technology, a Palm device that tries to reach up into the PPC price range (CLIE), or a PPC device that tries to reach down into the Palm price range (Jomada 548) will flounder.

    All bets are off in 12 mos.
    "That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you...."
  5. #5  
    Originally posted by b1lanceman
    If any of you haven't noticed, PocketPC's have been steadily gaining on palms.
    Nope. Hadn't noticed. Do you have some concrete numbers to back up that claim, or are you just trolling like it seems?

    The reasons being, faster process, better programs, games especially, better audio, and more innovation.
    Reasons according to whom?

    So here's my question, why should anyone today spend 400-500 on a new color palm when they can get a Casio EM500 for 400 dollars, or a jornada 548 for 450?
    Perhaps because they find the interface and available programs for the Palm platform more compelling.

    It just seems stupid to spend justas much money for a product that isn't as good.
    Yep, that's why I wouldn't buy a PocketPC. ;~~~
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  6. #6  
    (How do I keep ending up in the same debates with Toby )

    I have to agree with Toby and Slot_Machine. Calling the PPC 'better' is just a subjective opinion.

    I find them to be quite nice, but they are not Palms. They really are two different machines.

    What I love about the Palm is that it is simple. PPCs are already way too bloated with an OS and features that seem unecessarily complicated.

    faster process,
    This will be a see-saw race. The competition always has a faster processor on the horizon.

    better programs
    Subjective.

    games especially
    I'm not sure if 'better games' is really a priority for most PDA owners.

    better audio
    This is nice, but, again, not sure if that is a high priority for PDA owners.

    and more innovation.
    I'll side with the PPC on this one...they have pushed new feaures faster than the Palm OS crowd has...partly because they've been the underdog. However, these past few months have shown an onslaught of new Palm OS innovations from Sony and Handera. Things are picking up pace in the Palm OS arena...I'll think we'll be seeing some very exciting developments in the near future.
    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  7. #7  
    Originally posted by b1lanceman
    If any of you haven't noticed, PocketPC's have been steadily gaining on palms.
    More specifically, the iPAQ has been steadily gaining on other PPCs, to the point where "Pocket PC" has become synonymous with "iPAQ." HP's head of its handhelds division mentioned the possibility of switching over to the Palm OS: true or not, it's a signal that the Jornada team is on the defensive.

    The reasons being, faster process, better programs, games especially, better audio, and more innovation. So here's my question, why should anyone today spend 400-500 on a new color palm when they can get a Casio EM500 for 400 dollars, or a jornada 548 for 450? It just seems stupid to spend justas much money for a product that isn't as good.
    Assuming against all evidence to the contrary that you aren't trolling, the main reason is that the Palms are easier to work with. Every time I've tried a Jornada or and iPAQ in a store, I've been disappointed enough by the usability to cure me of any thought of weighing features. Sure, PPCs play MP3s out of the box, but I spend most of my time entering and looking up contacts, notes, etc.; so extravant multimedia, while desireable, isn't the decisive factor. If it takes three times as long to look up a phone number, having better (and fewer) games doesn't shift the balance for me.

    I'm not against power PDAs. I've been waiting for a Symbian Quartz device to hit the streets, but that's become InnoWare, and I don't like the clamshell form factor of current Psion devices -- at least until the Series 7's price comes down to earth. So for the moment, I'm content with my Prism. But if you want to go for a PPC, Godspeed.
  8. #8  
    Originally posted by homer
    (How do I keep ending up in the same debates with Toby )
    Strong opinions about a variety of subjects?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  9. #9  
    I mostly agree with Slot Machine. Right now it seems like both PalmOS and PPC are fighting for the middle ground, with relatively expensive Palms and relatively cheap PPCs in the $400-$500 range. Does adding MP3 and high-res color make a Palm into a multimedia machine? Does B&W or 16MB stripped-down memory make a PPC into an inexpensive organizer? It's all subjective, everybody just buy whatever you like most. (Personally I don't know, since I only had enough clams to afford a Vdx... :P)
  10. #10  
    With real multimedia features, more screen space, more memory internally,and expansion slot, the iPaq is a Palm killer. Just too dam expensive. But if the price drops a bit . . . watch out Palm.
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  11. Rob
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    #11  
    Originally posted by mikedemo
    With real multimedia features, more screen space, more memory internally,and expansion slot, the iPaq is a Palm killer. Just too dam expensive. But if the price drops a bit . . . watch out Palm.
    I had an iPaq for a little while, and though I loved the screen, I returned it mostly because the PIM and built-in apps were so annoying (dialog boxes left and right, twice as many taps to get to anything, never mind actually entering information...). I don't know why MS doesn't just copy Palm's built-in app UI, it would overcome one of the PPC's biggest problems right away. Of course, battery life and form factor are also issues (iPaq isn't too bad form-factor wise as long as you stay away from those monstrous CF or PCMCIA card sleeves!)
  12. #12  
    Ugh, this is almost too boring to write...
    I've written it before, and afraid I'll still have to write it some more...
    But it's still true, so...
    Why is it that the clueless 'CE people just never seem to realize that many, if not most of us (at least on these boards) have been around the block quite a few times, weathered 'CE 1.x, 2.x, and now 3.0.
    In the PDA world this is OLD NEWS.
    "Ipaq newbies" (who seem to be the only ones naive to advance these "arguments") just can't seem to fathom that MAYBE LOTS OF US are JUST AS, if not MORE intelligent (and / or: insert your "PDA I.Q. Benchmark Test" phrase here) than you newbies ... but STILL have come down on the side of the Palm O.S. (via HS, HE, Sony or whatever).

    Stop and look in a mirror and ASK YOURSELF WHY. (And don't flatter yourself that "you're the only ones w/a clue in the universe" -- because YOU SEE HOW FAR thinking like that gets you in THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, DON'T YOU?)
    ***end of rant***
    "Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds." -- Albert Einstein
  13. #13  
    I just find the Palm OS more elegant. My 7 year old son could use it within minutes of picking it up. I still can't get a PPC to function as nicely.
    The best analogy I can come up with would be this.
    PPCs are like very expensive supercars (Ferraris, Lambos, etc. -you pick), sure they are fast, but most of the people who buy them can't use them well because their controls are not intuitive (the cars) and the driver is not up to the task (a Ferrari cannot be driven to it's limit by an untrained driver). They also break down alot and are expensive to run. They are more for show and tell than regular use.
    Palm OS PDAs are more like mid range imports (Toyotas, Nissans, Hondas -you pick), they drive well, last forever when cared for, and can be a hoot to drive by ordinary drivers. They are meant to be used everday for years, and years.

    Also, I don't see how faster processors, better color, or sound really has to do with better gameplay. What makes a game engaging is it's rules. Chess is a better game than Quake simply from the standpoint that it has proven itself over a very long time to be able to engage a much wider variety of people. Design wise I think it takes a better designer to make a playable game using the Palm OS. Too many people want too much of their existence spoonfed to them. I have Half-Life and Unreal on my PC, but I long for Robotron!

    That's it for now,
    MIchael
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  14. #14  
    Originally posted by BobbyMike
    I just find the Palm OS more elegant.
    You nailed it. Simple, elegant designs have prevailed ever since humans have been knocking sticks and rocks together.
    "That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you...."
  15. #15  
    Ok, I would first off the bat like to dispel one myth about the pocket PC: There is no software for the pocket pc, and what little there is is overpriced bloated and not as good as the palm version. Not only is the previous statement wrong, but it exists only to defend peoples reasoning for chosing a palm.

    Palm people have a wonderfull site (PalmGearHQ), on it are a large large number of programs. Some are usefull however a large percentage (40% or 50%) are not. How many dam*ed calorie checkers, stopwatches, and LogoHACKs do you realy need?

    PocketPC users don't have a single dedicated site, but there are a number of sites where alot of usefull software can be found (Handandgo, zdnet, cnet, tucows). Add this to the fact that PocketPC's ship with more programs in ROM. Real Wordprocessor, Powerfull Spreedsheet, MemoPad, PIM, email client, avantgo/web browser, Media Player, ebook reader, and some other small things like picture viwer + what ever comes with the device specificaly. And then Pocket Informant does what Datebk3/4 does. and there is HandBase just like for palm and other applcatioins that are easily aviable. And we aren't even going to go into games, because once you've played turja (www.jimmysoftware.com) you realize that PocketPC is a supireor gamming device, no contest.

    And as you might expect there are a few number of stopwatch programs and the like that are readily aviable for free. Also the nice thing about PocketPC is if you have a Visual basic developent enviroment that you can use for quickie little programs if you are so inclined.

    This isn't to say that PocketPC's are better in every respect related to software, it is very true that some medical programs just aren't aviable for the pocket pc, but for 85% of all users there should be no software issue. Now a year ago when the PPC platform first debuted then I'd have to aggree with you, however now It realy isn't an issue.
    Sam Kleinman

    PocketPCThoughts.com
    CollectiveArts
    Free-ePress
    Musings of a Teal Artist
    CollectiveArts TechMusings

    "Everybody don't like something and we all don't like you." -- Richard Thompson, Hard Luck Stories
  16. #16  
    Originally posted by BobbyMike
    . . . Also, I don't see how faster processors, better color, or sound really has to do with better gameplay. What makes a game engaging is it's rules. Chess is a better game than Quake simply from the standpoint that it has proven itself over a very long time to be able to engage a much wider variety of people. Design wise I think it takes a better designer to make a playable game using the Palm OS. Too many people want too much of their existence spoonfed to them. I have Half-Life and Unreal on my PC, but I long for Robotron!

    That's it for now,
    MIchael
    Get MAME32 and find the robotron roms.

    http://www.classicgaming.com/
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  17. #17  
    Also the nice thing about PocketPC is if you have a Visual basic developent enviroment that you can use for quickie little programs if you are so inclined.
    appforge allows you to develop in Visual Basic for the PalmOS.

    Just an FYI...
    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  18.    #18  
    For those of you who say there arent many pocket pc apps. Try going to Pocketgear.com or Pocketgamer.org. There's hundreds of apps. Can you play a super nintendo or nintendo game on your palm. How about Atari 2600 and apple II? I can even get an MS DOS emulator (although truth be told it runs slow as molasses on anything less than a pda running a 206 MHz strongarm) You can't play quake or Doom can you? Also, it has many of the apps you would need right of the box, like a word processor and spreadsheet.

    While I will admit there are some palm games i fell in love with, like SimCity, and Zap2000, the majority of pocketPC games are much much btter.

    The reason I mention games is because those are what generally pushes computers to the limit. That and multimedia.
  19. #19  
    Why are we talking so much about games? Only a very small number of PDA owners really care about Games.

    If you ARE interested in games, well, then by all means, get an iPaq. But don't say one is better than the other just because you can play games.
    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  20. #20  
    b1lanceman I agree with you in part. Multimedia is what made the PC market explode. I know many people criticize and say "wanting PDAs to do everything is crazy" don't get what most of us really want. It's not the fact that we want every thing. But we want as many features in a gadget so we carry less.

    Year and 1/2 ago I carried:
    Palm IIIx
    CD player
    Digital Camera
    Cel phone
    Blackberry pager.

    Today:
    Visor Prism with SoundsGood AudioPlayer and EyeModule
    Cel Phone with text messaging

    Though the Eyemodule isn't perfect I heard EyeModule2 is great. I can't wait for the next generation Eymodule 3!!

    The point is, most of us don't want to tote around a lot of gadgets. I want as many features in a PDA to lighten my burden and I am sure in 3 to 5 years the truly multimedia rich PDA will arrive (are you listening Apple? ). Why shouldn't I expect my $450 Palm device to play games better than a $50-$60 GameBoy Pocket, or Play much better quality video. Easier to store photos in a common exchangeable format like Jpeg? I am upset with the fact that Macromedia has the Flash player for PPC but not for the Palm (they basically said why bother).

    I will admit that the PPC community has a head start. But I am praying Palm will wake up and incorporate more multimedia capabilities (and more screen space please!!!). Palm OS is to me more stable and efficient but it is to simple when it comes to multimedia. That's why Palm fans are gravitating to Handspring, Sony, and Handera. They want these features and they want them now. If not addressed soon they will be tempted to cross over to PPC.


    Btw: I Saw the PocketGear site. Not Bad, not bad at all.
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
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