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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by ohbw View Post
    Flaming follows idiocy, which is rampant here, e.g. your idle comment about polls. Do you have alternative poll data, or are you just blabbering? Is the one opinion you pulled out of your shorts worth more than that poll data?

    Offered elsewhere, and reaffirmed here: I'll put $100,000 in escrow along with your $100,000. If Apple stock isn't 500% higher in five years because they've gobbled market share in cell phones, it's your money. Want another bet? Palm in bankruptcy, non-existent, or acquired for its tax value as a huge loss within five years. Want another bet? Relative market share of OSX vs. Windows in five years.

    Email me if you have some money and something other than hot air coming from both ends. Otherwise, continue among yourselves: "Look, I can simulate racing a F1 car on my 2" screen! Incredible!"

    A poll of 200 ppl doesn't give a true reflection of over 700,00 owners - the same claim that 100 posts by surur doesn't represent 700,00 iPhone owners. Neither are really valid - you couldn't base any research on that kind of projection which is why it appeared in a newspaper and not say a peer-reviewed journal. Due to the small sample size it's practically useless in judging how many of those 700,00 owners are actually happy - much like your inane childish posting...and it seems you're interested in what's in my shorts, but I'm not that kind of guy..I'm heterosexual and happily married (so keep your dirty comments in your mind please).

    The same for your childish betting - I'm sure it doesn't impress many ppl on here and I can bet on that - like you're at a playground in kindergarten! I don't see anyone on here trying to bet money with ppl on the internet except you - escrow? Are you Nigerian or something (disclaimer: no offense if I've insulted Nigerians by comparing them to this clown).

    And as I implied before there are plenty relevant iPhone threads already open this could've been put in, but you seem to be the attention-seeking kind and hence the readiness to resort to personal insults. Moron. If only more money meant more sense the world would be a better place.
    Last edited by bruckwine; 07/13/2007 at 08:31 PM.
  2. #42  
    OK. I'm a new Treo user, but a palm addict. I'm sure the iPhone is great, but the palm holds everything that makes my life simple. From what I can tell of the iPhone, it's a nifty entertainment device, much like my iPod.

    I use my palm devices or Treo for more than that, I use Spashid for codes and passwords, I use DocsToGo for carrying and editing work products (Word, excell, powerpoint,etc). It's my organizer and calendar. Thanks to 3rd party apps it has my audio and digital books as well as internet music. Thus, it's an entertainment device that links to the internet to download new books and listen to music.

    Admittedly, I don't use it often for TV. I use orb and quickly push record if I forgot to turn on the recorder. Other than that, I connect my Treo to my UX180 or T250 (laptops) and watch internet TV on a larger screen. However, I still like the flexibility of being able to watch TV if I chose to and of not having to use space on my device for music and videos that are already on my desktop.
    Of course there's numerous other things that I do with my Treo, but the most useful is carrying one device instead of a phone, an iPod, and a pda.

    Although I have TomTom on my Treo, I haven't been able to give up the crutch of the TomTom in the car. What if someone wants to call while I'm navigating someplace? Thus, technically it's replaced four devices, but we all have our peccadilloes.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by slingbox View Post
    This would make the iphone a toy?
    or productive tool that you can be made a toy with 3rd party app ?
    The iphone is for the user without a clue in my opinion
    I wouldn't go that far to call people clueless. Owners of smartphones have gotten them too. Sure it's a toy! It's a good multi-media tool, not necessarily good for business if you're away from the office a lot. It has it's place.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by ohbw View Post
    I have the same pushmail on my iPhone I had on my Treo, nimrod: emailtreo. And I have pushmail via Yahoo as well. It just works faster than it did on my Treo.

    We all know the incredible software gifts MS has given to the world. Spare me. What are you, running DARPA? You're watching "Girls Gone Wild" in the bathroom.

    Does it push domain based email? Or do you have to forward everything to emailtreo, Gmail or Yahoo(and others like that)?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by AnteL0pe View Post
    the thing about the battery is that the majority of us never used a second battery on our treo either. The only reason to remove the battery cover was to do a reset
    What do you do if the first one goes bad then? I ALWAYS get a back-up battery just in case.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  6. #46  
    A majority of use never use a second battery...sure Lope, whatever helps you explain away Apples gaffe.

    Sure, a minority of people swap batteries each day (like myself), but a larget number have had to either replace their battery, or carry a spare for occasional use.
  7. #47  
    What exactly is wrong with Girls Gone Wild?
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec View Post
    A majority of use never use a second battery...sure Lope, whatever helps you explain away Apples greed at making people pay $85 for a battery replacement, just like they got away with doing for the iPod..

    Sure, a minority of people swap batteries each day (like myself), but a larget number have had to either replace their battery, or carry a spare for occasional use.
    Fixed.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    and why is that Sling?

    what about those who may have owned many different devices in the past, or use it alongside some other device? how about the user who might simply prefer it to a Treo? or how about the owner whose needs are met by what the iPhone offers?

    i would love to hear why it is that you think the iPhone is for "the user without a clue." i'm sure others would love to read your reason as well.
    we're still waiting....especially us "clueless" folk.
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
  10. #50  
    Although I'm new to Treo, I have a second battery. However I haven't had to use it. I bought it because I did and still believe the Treo doesn't have good battery life. Being a previous Clie UX50 user, I bought the extended battery for it and thought I'd do the same for the Treo. If I use the Treo for media, video or audio, I guess I'll have to use it if I'm away from my car home or office.

    However, I recently went to Europe and used the Treo constantly for reading and interpreting (audio phrasebook). I never had to use the second battery. I was surprised and it's made me not baby the Treo as much.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by bruckwine View Post
    A poll of 200 ppl doesn't give a true reflection of over 700,00 owners
    According to this:

    http://www.publicagenda.org/polling/polling_error.cfm

    the margin of error for a sample size of 200 is 7% (with a confidence interval of 95%).

    On that basis, 83 - 97% of iPhone users are "extremely" or "very" satisfied with their phone (CI = 95%).
  12. #52  
    Originally posted by marcol:
    According to this:

    http://www.publicagenda.org/polling/polling_error.cfm

    the margin of error for a sample size of 200 is 7% (with a confidence interval of 95%).

    On that basis, 83 - 97% of iPhone users are "extremely" or "very" satisfied with their phone (CI = 95%).
    Thank you for posting the stats, I knew it was a good sample, but I just wasn't willing to check the margin of error.

    This is a Treo forum, but we're spending a lot of time talking about the iPhone, it's the new competitor and we can't seem to stop.

    I believe the iPhone is great for non-power pda users or as a second device. I think anyone who doesn't have an iPod, but was thinking about it, should jump on the iPhone. The iPhone costs a little more than the iPod, but you don't have to buy all the accessories just to listen to it. Thus, it's an iPod and a phone. You replace two devices. Similar to those of us who went from a stand-alone pda to a Treo.

    Although Treo owners have replaced three or four devices with our Treo, how many of us have really given up the other devices? In fact, I think I'll start a thread with that question.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    According to this:

    http://www.publicagenda.org/polling/polling_error.cfm

    the margin of error for a sample size of 200 is 7% (with a confidence interval of 95%).

    On that basis, 83 - 97% of iPhone users are "extremely" or "very" satisfied with their phone (CI = 95%).
    Still a high error pecentage - imo polling at least 10% of a population is better - 4% error they say - not sure where they get these facts either. Forgive me for being pedantic but I'm a researcher and as such like to see references to research articles when ppl argue numbers - that site you linked to may be totally correct..or talking crap . W/o references how can you tell? In my line of work it can mean the difference between publication and the trash bin. Also as that article itself points out numbers alone doesn't make it representative the real question is who did the USA Today poll, not just how many:

    Of course, in both general samples and oversamples, who is asked is as important as how many are asked.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by bruckwine View Post
    Still a high error pecentage - imo polling at least 10% of a population is better - 4% error they say - not sure where they get these facts either. Forgive me for being pedantic but I'm a researcher and as such like to see references to research articles when ppl argue numbers - that site you linked to may be totally correct..or talking crap . W/o references how can you tell? In my line of work it can mean the difference between publication and the trash bin.
    Here's some maths for you:

    http://www.researchsolutions.co.nz/sample_sizes.htm

    And here's a nice, digestible article from the American Statistical Association that supports the numbers on both pages I've linked (pdf):

    http://www.surveygigantic.com/Manuals/surveyerror.pdf

    Unless you can provide good reason not to, I'm going to regard your original assertion that "A poll of 200 ppl doesn't give a true reflection of over 700,00 owners" as completely groundless.
  15. #55  
    Marcol,

    Your premise assumes the sample selection was done properly.

    They may claim is was, but in narorow, skewed opinion polls, you are sort of rigging the answer.

    The iPhone was hyped a ton, and the buyers were already presdisposed to liking the iPhone, sight unseen.

    It's not like they took a new device with no hype, gave it to 700K random people, let them use it for a week, and then polled them on their experience.

    The more you skewed the controls and population parameters, the more you skew the results.

    Before you start quoting the science of the stats (ex. a small sample size results and be extrapolated to a larger population), you need to look at the context.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    Here's some maths for you:

    http://www.researchsolutions.co.nz/sample_sizes.htm

    And here's a nice, digestible article from the American Statistical Association that supports the numbers on both pages I've linked (pdf):

    http://www.surveygigantic.com/Manuals/surveyerror.pdf

    Unless you can provide good reason not to, I'm going to regard your original assertion that "A poll of 200 ppl doesn't give a true reflection of over 700,00 owners" as completely groundless.
    Well you 1st article linked says the same as the first post you made on the topic i.e. you get about 7% error within 95% CI - still does not make it reliable as 7% is a wider margin than 3% (if you used a sample size of 800) AND says nothing about the composition of the sample. Reading the original USA Today article they polled 1000 cellphone owners - so this was a subset of that group. Imo it would've been better and more reliable to actually aim for 1000 iPhone owners and to have such a survey well after the launch.

    Of course I'm looking from a scientific viewpoint where an error range of 7% is borderline and as I said before I consider 5% or less more acceptable. I hope this link works (from googlebooks):

    http://books.google.com/books?id=hwd...dvcXu59Y_k6i_k

    Another factor,a s pointed out by your 2nd article, is what was the nonsampling error like? Also as i asked before how stratified was the sampling?

    Some things that help assess nonsampling uncertainties, when available, include the percentage of respondents who answer "don't know" or "undecided."
    Be wary when these quantities are not given. Almost always there are people who have not made up their mind. How these cases are handled can make a big difference. Simply splitting them in proportion to the views of those who
    gave an opinion can be misleading in some settings.
    Finally from the 2nd article
    Until media organizations get their reporting practices in line with actual variation in results across political polls, a rule of thumb is to multiply
    the currently reported margin of error by 1.7 to obtain a more accurate estimate of the margin of error for the lead of one candidate over another.
    Imho at least to run a survey less than a month after ppl buy a new media-exposed "hyped" device asking for consumer satisfaction (which can change within a year - e.g. battery problems, warranty issues etc) is a bit premature, and has SOME inkling of politics. Given that assumption multiply that 7% error by 1.7 and you have an error of 11.9%.

    What may be groundless is trusting a poll in the media that gives no real details on how it was conducted (as stated can be skewed simply by how you do it rather than how many times) - as we've both shown sample size alone is not the end all, but it does count.
  17. #57  
    LOL Apple/Steve Jobs always bring out the craziest posters.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Public Agenda Site
    Public opinion researchers liken it to making a big pot of soup to taste-test the soup, you don't have to eat the whole pot, or even a whole bowl's worth. You only have to try a bite.
    So, if I take a taste of a carrot out of a bowl of "something," how do I know if it's chicken soup, beef stew, or bouillabaisse? The method of extrapolation described at that site only works for homogeneous populations (homogeneous regarding the question(s) at hand). You will either need a bigger sample size or a more carefully constructed population selection to have something better than an "O'Reilly Factor Poll."
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec View Post
    Marcol,

    Your premise assumes the sample selection was done properly.
    Not really. I was taking issue with and providing some information relevant bruckwine's assertion that ""A poll of 200 ppl doesn't give a true reflection of over 700,00 owners". I did take it a bit further and say "On that basis, 83 - 97% of iPhone users are "extremely" or "very" satisfied with their phone (CI = 95%)", but note the prefacing clause.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikec View Post
    They may claim is was, but in narorow, skewed opinion polls, you are sort of rigging the answer.

    The iPhone was hyped a ton, and the buyers were already presdisposed to liking the iPhone, sight unseen.

    It's not like they took a new device with no hype, gave it to 700K random people, let them use it for a week, and then polled them on their experience.
    Neither I, USA Today nor Interpret (who did the poll) have said anything about why they like it. There may may be an element of what you say but I have no way of quantifying that and I don't think you do either. That said, if the user experience was truly awful I expect that to come through in the poll (whatever predisposition the hype may or may not have been imposed). You guys seem so defensive. Why not just take it for what it is - a snap shot of how those who bought the iPhone early feel about it in the first few days of ownership?
  20. #60  
    Original post by marcol:
    You guys seem so defensive. Why not just take it for what it is - a snap shot of how those who bought the iPhone early feel about it in the first few days of ownership?
    I'm not a guy and I get your point. However, you are posting on a Treo forum, not an iPhone forum. There's a different forum out there for you if you want to hear nice things about the iPhone.

    Someone who disagrees with you is not defensive, they're simply aggressively stating their point of view. So make your point, take your hits, and quit whining or post on your own forum.
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