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  1.    #1  
    Id say its time to shed some light on the so-called "iphone killer" here

    "HTC's Touch smartphone initially looks like the Windows Mobile-powered version of Apple's iPhone.

    But underneath its Potemkin touch interface lies the same old Windows Mobile operating system, which struggles with serious usability problems if you want to operate it with your fingers alone.

    The result is that the Touch adds up to a handset that seems half-fast and ultimately unsatisfying."



    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,283112,00.html
  2. #2  
    Sorry, my HTC Touch can do a lot more than any iPhone. Its just not designed for people who do not know how to use a phone address book.

    Surur
  3.    #3  
    Here is another review...

    No 3G, uncomfortable, small keyboard, 240 x 320 resolution?

    http://www.mobilegamefaqs.com/newsstory.php?id=1079
  4.    #4  
    and another...

    http://www.mobileuserexperience.com/?p=424

    "....The idea is that most of the main functions can be accessed while holding the device in one-hand, without needing to remove the stylus. It doesn’t work.

    The problems don’t stop there either. It quickly becomes apparent that all HTC have done is put a bit of software on top of the existing Windows Mobile 6 code base to make the home screen look prettier, download local weather and provide shortcut icons with a slightly different look and feel.

    The combination of this thumb-based HTC interface layer and Microsoft’s stylus-driven OS creates a serious usability problem. Even if you manage to master the HTC TouchFlo menu system, nothing underneath it has been changed, so you find yourself moving from an environment where you navigate by thumb to one where a stylus is essential.

    For instance, to create a new SMS message from the home screen, a user would make an upwards gesture with their thumb. This brings up the HTC TouchFlo menu. A sideways thumb swipe flips the menu on to the shortcut page and the messaging icon is large and easy to select.

    At this point, you’re switched back into the standard Windows Mobile environment, where the ‘New Message’ command is hidden beneath two layers of menus, both of which require either a stylus or an incredibly tiny finger tip to select.

    This is basic, basic stuff. Why have companies with the experience of HTC and Microsoft still not woken up to simple concepts, like the fact that interface consistency is the key to moving quickly and efficiently around a mobile environment? It’s just not good enough to dump a user from a thumb-driven, large icon environment into one where they’re suddenly expected to search and select much smaller, text-based menus.

    Even if you manage to navigate the menu while still holding the device in one hand, you’ll inevitably find yourself removing the stylus to use either the virtual QWERTY keyboard or handwriting recognition to enter your message.

    My message to HTC is very simple: if you’re going to sell a new device on the basis of a thumb touch interface, you have to make sure it works consitently and correctly throughout the operating system. This means a full re-design of the interface layer across all the applications or sourcing an entirely new OS which already has this functionality built in.

    The confusion caused by TouchFlo and HTC’s inability or unwillingness to optimise Windows Mobile for use with its new interface cripple the user experience of this handset. In doing so, the company has ruined an otherwise attractively designed and well engineered product.

    I had high hopes for the Touch. I wanted to like this product. Listening to John Wang of HTC was a refreshing experience - he strikes me as a man who understands customers and knows how to translate that knowledge into mobile products. However, I can’t help feeling that corporate politics have prevented the Touch from fulfilling its potential.

    It strikes me that this vision has been derailed by a decision to rely on Windows Mobile and a knee jerk reaction to rush it to market to counter the hype of the Apple iPhone and LG Prada Phone"
    "
  5. #5  
    well rumor is the CDMA version will be 3G(not sure if it will be rev a or not).
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Sorry, my HTC Touch can do a lot more than any iPhone. Its just not designed for people who do not know how to use a phone address book.

    Surur
    http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/06...one/page4.html

    Connectivity problems, no 3G, poor camera, poor keyboard....

    The Touch has 802.11b/g Wi-Fi connectivity, incidentally, but we had real problems connecting to the internet through Reg Hardware's access point - something that's not been an issue with HTC devices before. In short, it wouldn't stay connected


    And the camera's rubbish. It may have a two-megapixel resolution, but shots are full of colour artefacts and look like they've undergone far too high a level of JPEG compression, so much so that they look like they were taken on a lower-resolution camera.




    Verdict:

    What a disappointment. HTC's Touch is undeniably a smart-looking phone, but while it's a stunner in pictures, in your hands it quickly becomes a fingerprint-plastered mess. Yes, it offers some neat touch-control improvements on the standard Windows Mobile 6 user interface, but for all the fancy visuals, it's no iPhone
  7.    #7  
    http://jkontherun.blogs.com/jkonther...ple_say_t.html


    The HTC Touch runs Windows Mobile 6 Professional, and that may be the ultimate downfall of the Touch. Don't get me wrong, I love Windows Mobile but it's no iPhone. Microsoft hasn't really designed WM 6 to take full advantage of touch-screens, because it's designed to also work on smartphones with no touch-screen. HTC has developed TouchFLO, a touch interface that looks cool and operates in a similar fashion to the iPhone, but it's really just a pretty shell sitting on the Windows Mobile engine. I fear that to fully use the Touch with its WM background you will be reaching for the stylus a lot, and that will detract from the experience. Above all else if HTC is dependent on the standard Windows Mobile on-screen keyboard for text entry then the Touch will fail miserably. That keyboard is terrible to use, and even if the iPhone keyboard isn't optimum it is way above the WM keyboard. The Touch MUST have a keyboard that can be tapped with the finger, much like that on the iPhone, or the user experience will be horrible. What the Touch cannot do is force the user to frequently reach for the stylus, that's not the way to have an enjoyable touch experience.
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Sorry, my HTC Touch can do a lot more than any iPhone. Its just not designed for people who do not know how to use a phone address book.

    Surur
    (BIG PROBLEM: SMALL LITTLE KEYBOARD... POOR SMARTPHONE FOR THOSE WHO REQUIRE A GOOD DATA INPUT SOLUTION.)


    http://reviews.cnet.com/smart-phones...tag=prod.txt.1

    Our main concern is the lack of a sizable keyboard, which is a huge drawback for messaging fanatics, and it even slows down simple tasks such as entering new contacts.


    The bottom line: The HTC Touch boasts an innovative touch screen and sleek interface, but the lack of a sizable keyboard really limits the usability of this device. And despite being impressed by the beautiful hardware, the Windows Mobile smart phone lags in performance and needs a bit more tweaking before we're ready to snatch one up.


    The bad: The Touch's tiny onscreen keyboard makes it a pain to enter any text, and the TouchFLO feature doesn't work in landscape mode. The SIM card and microSD slots are hard to access. Also, speakerphone quality was poor, and the device can be sluggish at times.
  9. #9  
    All rather irrelevant to my statement that my HTC Touch can do a lot more than any iPhone.

    Surur
  10. #10  
    Throw in the Mogul there too as its made by HTC. EVDO speeds now and Revision A later this year, Wi-Fi, good keyboard, seamless integration with Exchange Server 2003 and 2007, camera quality is very good and the list goes on.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 700p > Treo 700wx -> Mogul -> Touch Pro
    You may like to flash, but your phone shouldn't. LED Killer
  11. #11  
    To give a simple example. The Touch has these BT profiles.

    Serial Port Profile (SPP). Emulates COM-connection of devices. Used mainly for synchronization with desktop PC, coupling external Bluetooth-gadgets, like Bluetooth GPS-receiver.
    Object Push Profile (OPP). A basic profile for sending "objects" such as pictures, virtual business cards, or appointment details.
    File Transfer Profile (FTP). Provides access to the file system on another device. This includes support for getting folder listings, changing to different folders, getting files, putting files and deleting files. For the first time this profile is implemented on HTC devices basing off Microsoft’s stack.
    Hands-Free Profile (HFP). Connection of Bluetooth-headset and handsfree device.
    Human Interface Device Profile (HID). Connection of Bluetooth-keyboard.
    Advanced Audio Distribution Profile (A2DP). Sound transfer via Bluetooth.
    Audio Video Remote Control Profile (AVRCP). Music playback management via wireless headset.
    Personal Area Network Profile (PAN). Network connection via Bluetooth, use for connection of a desktop PC to Internet through the communicator, replaces Dual-Up Networking profile.
    SIM Access Profile (SAP). Allows connecting to a SIM card in a phone with Bluetooth, so the car phone itself doesn't require a separate SIM card.
    The iPhone has this profile.

    Hands-Free Profile (HFP). Connection of Bluetooth-headset and handsfree device.
    I guess beaming ring-tones via bluetooth is just too complicated for typical Apple users.

    Surur
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    All rather irrelevant to my statement that my HTC Touch can do a lot more than any iPhone.

    Surur
    All relevant to the fact that the HTC touch is NOT a great smartphone.

    2g, poor screen res, crappy camera, awful keyboard - you need a stylus, so poor one-handed usage, 64 mb ram, which isnt very much memory. The touchflo thing is reportedly flawed as well. Poor alternative for instant messaging.

    The fact is, its not a great solution.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    All relevant to the fact that the HTC touch is NOT a great smartphone.

    2g, poor screen res, crappy camera, awful keyboard - you need a stylus, so poor one-handed usage, 64 mb ram, which isnt very much memory. The touchflo thing is reportedly flawed as well. Poor alternative for instant messaging.

    The fact is, its not a great solution.
    In fact its a great device. Its really small, possibly the smallest full WM Professional device. It has great battery life. It has a SDHC slot, so it can take the new 4 GB microSD cards (I'm buying one next month for sure) and comes bundled with a 1GB card. The touchflo system is a great launcher, and is available from all the device screens.

    Is it the best smartphone ever? There is no such thing, as no device can be all things to all people. Is it the best messaging device? No again, as it lacks a hardware keyboard.

    Is it a small, light and elegant device that slips very easily in the pocket, and works well with making phone calls, playing music and syncing with your exchange server? Yes it is, and if that is your requirement then its perfectly suited.

    Surur
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    In fact its a great device. Its really small, possibly the smallest full WM Professional device. It has great battery life. It has a SDHC slot, so it can take the new 4 GB microSD cards (I'm buying one next month for sure) and comes bundled with a 1GB card. The touchflo system is a great launcher, and is available from all the device screens.

    Is it the best smartphone ever? There is no such thing, as no device can be all things to all people. Is it the best messaging device? No again, as it lacks a hardware keyboard.

    Is it a small, light and elegant device that slips very easily in the pocket, and works well with making phone calls, playing music and syncing with your exchange server? Yes it is, and if that is your requirement than its perfectly suited.

    Surur


    To each his own. Small, light, and elegant that slips easily in the pocket? That could also describe the iphone too. Works well with making phone calls, playing music and syncing with your pc? iphone also checks out.

    Is the iphone the best phone ever? No, but it has a very innovative user interface and is an excellent first step into the cellphone area for apple. As you`ve said, there is no perfect cellphone. No device will satisfy everyone, but different types of phones will meet the differing needs of different types of people. This is why the iphone will do fine.
  15. #15  
    Which brings us to the point of comparing the Touch to a device in a similar niche. Compared to the iPhone, the Touch is more capable. See only one example above.

    Surur
  16. #16  
    TouchFLO is a brave effort but I don't think the negative reviews of the consequent Frankenstein UI are really any great surprise.

    My message to HTC is very simple: if you’re going to sell a new device on the basis of a thumb touch interface, you have to make sure it works consitently and correctly throughout the operating system. This means a full re-design of the interface layer across all the applications or sourcing an entirely new OS which already has this functionality built in.
    I've said before that UIQ would be a good match for HTC. It's owned by SonyEricsson now but can be licensed and, especially the new 3.1 version, would give them a much more consumer-friendly, one-hand-operable UI.
  17. #17  
    What people do not understand is that WM to HTC is a feature. Its why their devices sell to their fans in the first place. If they were to go Symbian, they would go head to head with Nokia etc all, and basically fail. See all the others that have tried already.

    Surur
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    What people do not understand is that WM to HTC is a feature. Its why their devices sell to their fans in the first place. If they were to go Symbian, they would go head to head with Nokia etc all, and basically fail. See all the others that have tried already.
    I really don't think the last statement is true, at least not universally so. These are the Canalys figures for smart devices for Q4 2005 and Q4 2006. SonyEricsson's Symbian phones moved them back into the top five in 2006 for the first time since 2004. Their proportion of the market showed a more than eight-fold increase.

    Nokia: Q4 2005 54%, Q4 2006 50%
    RIM: Q4 2005 7%, Q4 2006 8%
    Motorola: Q4 2005 5%, Q4 2006 7%
    Palm Q4 2005 9%, Q4 2006 5%
    Sony Ericsson: Q4 2005 0.6%, Q4 2006 5%
    Others: Q4 2005 24%, Q4 2006 24%

    http://www.canalys.com/pr/2007/r2007024.htm
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    I really don't think the last statement is true, at least not universally so. These are the Canalys figures for smart devices for Q4 2005 and Q4 2006. SonyEricsson's Symbian phones moved them back into the top five in 2006 for the first time since 2004. Their proportion of the market showed a more than eight-fold increase.

    Nokia: Q4 2005 54%, Q4 2006 50%
    RIM: Q4 2005 7%, Q4 2006 8%
    Motorola: Q4 2005 5%, Q4 2006 7%
    Palm Q4 2005 9%, Q4 2006 5%
    Sony Ericsson: Q4 2005 0.6%, Q4 2006 5%
    Others: Q4 2005 24%, Q4 2006 24%

    http://www.canalys.com/pr/2007/r2007024.htm
    5%? Poor SE.

    Surur
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    5%? Poor SE.
    Thankfully, HTC don't share your hubris. As we've discussed before, they're a company faced with a collapse in share price driven by a loss of contract orders and fears that they lack of new growth drivers, but they're at least trying to address the latter with the Touch. I've posted this FT article before but it's relevant here (also the original post has been moved to a different web site now):

    HTC launches its first mass-market phone
    By Kathrin Hille in Taipei
    Published: June 6 2007 00:38 | Last updated: June 6 2007 00:38

    HTC, the global market leader for Windows-based mobile devices, has launched its first mass-market phone in an attempt to create new growth after losing contract manufacturing orders and witnessing a rise in competition in its traditional niche of high-end smart phones.

    The HTC Touch, a small, stylish smartphone that can be navigated with one hand through touch-screen technology, marks “the first time we move beyond our niche of business devices”, Peter Chou, HTC president, told the Financial Times.

    Analysts think it has the potential to help turn round a prolonged drop in HTC’s share price.

    After peaking at T$1,220 in March 2006, the company’s shares started to slide, triggered by its announcements that it would acquire Dopod, a handset vendor controlled by family members of HTC’s chairwoman, and that it would start selling its phones under its own brand.

    In March, the share price had melted to T$425, driven by the loss of contract manufacturing orders and investor fears that margins would suffer from the lack of new growth drivers.

    Investors have also expressed doubt whether the Windows niche will be big enough in the long term and whether HTC can keep ahead within this market given that Microsoft has also licensed many other handset companies.

    These concerns are being addressed with the new model, Mr Chou says. “From the HTC Touch, you can clearly see our capability to differentiate ourselves.”

    Apart from the touch-screen technology, the new device also has an easier user interface to make it more suitable for consumers, who have struggled with the complicated Windows interface.

    The new phone would be sold under the HTC brand as well as a customised model for telecommunications operators.

    T-Mobile will take it on board as part of its MDA series while Orange will sell it under the HTC Touch name.
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/ac37c500-13b...b5df10621.html

    Time will tell if the Touch will allow them to "move beyond [their] niche of business devices" but the reviews are quite poor, largely for a reason that was completely predictable (UI inconsistency).

    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    What people do not understand is that WM to HTC is a feature. Its why their devices sell to their fans in the first place.
    I don't think anyone is suggesting they should abandon WM (I certainly wasn't). If the Touch and/or other TouchFLO devices fail to give them the breakthrough in the consumer market they'll be faced with choices. I'm sure they know a fair bit about Photon and perhaps believe that will solve the problems. If that's the case then TouchFLO may just be a stop-gap that they'll happily abandon it in a year's time. Seems a bit unlikely though that they'd commit what presumably is substantial development to something and then so readily discard it. IMO, UIQ could give them a major presence in the consumer market relatively quickly. This would add to the business-market presence that their WM devices give them and provide a very substantial new growth driver.
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