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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    The lack of 3G is just HTC stratifying its product line. This is meant to be a consumer device, and their consumer devices tend to lack 3G
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    does that mean that the iPhone is not a consumer device?
    Not unless HTC is making the iPhone. Surur pointed out that it's the strategy HTC tends to follow.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 700p > Treo 700wx -> Mogul -> Touch Pro
    You may like to flash, but your phone shouldn't. LED Killer
  2. #42  
    THIS THREAD IS JUST HILARIOUS...

    In one corner, Mr. Uber iPhone rips a similar, lower price, better hardware WM6 iPhone wannabe...

    And in the other corner, Mr. Uber WM6 defends a slower, less elegant UI, harder to input data (than even the iPhone) iPhone wannabe...

    Bwahahahahaha...what entertainment! Geez guys, can't you see that you are both right. Forget the touch screen; come on over to Blackjack country and experience a real smartphone at an incredible price ($99 for two year contract).
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  3. #43  
    I can see where you coming from, but I hope I was not defending it too hard. Its a nice device, and a fun phone, but its not a work horse, and I would not claim it is either. I would not tolerate is as my only smartphone, but I carry the two extremes now - a huge powerful device for text entry, and a small device for everything else. It works for me

    Surur
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    on a 2.8" screen? eek.

    not sure which would come first: a backspace to correct or a soft reset?! as you say, those 3rd party apps can surely be a hindrance.
    FWIW, I installed the trial version of "SPB Full Screen Keyboard" on my HTC Mogul, which also has a 2.8" screen (I'm pretty sure). It actually isn't a horrible experience and, in fact, I prefer it over the Mogul's hard keyboard which is awful in many respects.

    For those that may not know, I wrote a virtual thumbboard app for the Palm OS (originally optimized around my Tapwave Zodiac). The Zodiac has/had a 3.8" 480x320 screen which is nice for many reasons and a 2.8" screen definitely feels tight for a virtual keyboard. The smaller the screen, the more typos you're going to get. But it's workable and preferable, IMO, to the poor hard keyboard that the Mogul offers. My plan, if I keep the Mogul or buy the Sprint version of the Touch, will be to try and code my own virtual thumbboard app, because the SPB app is lacking in several areas.

    I'd prefer to see a larger-screen higher-res version of the Touch (3.5" screen and iPhone form-factor would be nice), but if the CDMA version of the Touch is coming to Sprint (soon?), I may go ahead and return the Mogul and wait for that. If I'm not going to use the hard keyboard, due to its suckage, why "pay" for it with the added thickness? Also, there are too many buttons, too close together, by the D-Pad, and the Touch seems to clean that up as well.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  5. #45  
    It makes no sense why htc cant add an iphone like keyboard to this device. Like it or hate it, the iPhone has proven that a good soft keyboard can be practical and very functional.


    Surur, please dont ever mention the stylus in the same sentence as acceptable text entry.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Surur, please dont ever mention the stylus in the same sentence as acceptable text entry.
    precisely. i'd like to also point out that he forgets that all of the million treos that he points to have both stylus "and" a full qwerty keyboard. i'm sure those owners would most surely prefer to text and type with their keyboards and not a stylus. just a hunch.
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    It makes no sense why htc cant add an iphone like keyboard to this device. Like it or hate it, the iPhone has proven that a good soft keyboard can be practical and very functional.


    Surur, please dont ever mention the stylus in the same sentence as acceptable text entry.
    Ive been using PDA's to keep professional notes since 2000, and I only got a device with a keyboard in 2006. There is a difference between ideal and acceptable.

    Surur
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    I can see where you coming from, but I hope I was not defending it too hard. Its a nice device, and a fun phone, but its not a work horse, and I would not claim it is either. I would not tolerate is as my only smartphone, but I carry the two extremes now - a huge powerful device for text entry, and a small device for everything else. It works for me

    Surur
    Ah, the "P" in PDA - all too often we forget it stands for "personal" and that's what counts. My opinion really matters for squat if you have what you need and it works for you. No amount of Apple or HTC marketing can, or should, change that.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    i'm sure those owners would most surely prefer to text and type with their keyboards and not a stylus. just a hunch.
    Typing with a stylus is definitely irritaiting. OTOH, for editing, photo manipulation, etc. I actually enjoy the stylus sometimes. Something about the pin-point accuracy.

    But, as was pointed out in the Brighthand article on WM5/6 and "Photon"--the WM OS is in a huge transition phase right now: somewhere in between "old school" PDA and "new school" smartphone. So the stylus, though needed less, is still a hold over from that phase.

    "Photon" by some accounts (Engadget, Brighthand) is very different in UI orientation e.g. no (or less) menus, large icons, touch friendly, etc.

    So, in this case HTC (and Palm) are just working with what they "got" so to speak.

    Honestly, you won't see WM really compete with the iPhone in terms of simple, elegant UI till "Photon" in mid-2008. TouchFLO and Palm's tweaks though go a long way to ameliorate the current UI. Incidentally, Palm's Linux OS is also similarly orientated.

    Great article on why "things are they way they are" with current WM devices: READ (note the article is from 8/06--way before the iPhone was known)

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss View Post
    THIS THREAD IS JUST HILARIOUS...

    In one corner, Mr. Uber iPhone rips a similar, lower price, better hardware WM6 iPhone wannabe...
    just to be clear, i am not "uber iPhone" nor a apple fanboy. i do think that apple is a hecuva company from both a manufacturing and marketing standpoint and that they would be successful in their iPhone offering. i will continue to say (in case you had never read such) that the iPhone seems to meet many people's wants, that it will not replace my Blackberry for my business needs, and that many people (here on the board as well) never really needed what the Treo truly offered and are finally migrating towards newer and more modern devices. if the "other devices" forum threads don't support that (i think they do, every day there's another person saying "goodbye Palm/Treo, hello X") then look around you and tell me what you see on your own city streets. who i don't care for is Palm and their ineptitude for building better products. what makes me laugh are those who like to say "i'm going to give them another year" and if they haven't figured it out by then, then i'll make the switch. for me, the 680/755 was it.

    regards
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    I carry the two extremes now - a huge powerful device for text entry, and a small device for everything else. It works for me
    That sounds a lot like a Foleo/Treo combo.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by braj View Post
    That sounds a lot like a Foleo/Treo combo.
    lol, it does!

    Surur, you are their target audience! Admit it

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    lol, it does!

    Surur, you are their target audience! Admit it
    Nooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!

    Actually I may be, but they have done nothing to woo me. The HTC Omni may be double the price of the Folio, but it will have GPS built-in, and HSDPA also. I think people who's job critically depends on words in some way probably have enough money to buy a more attractive device. With the Omni its love at first sight, with the Folio its quite the opposite.

    Surur
  14. #54  
    Surur does deserve credit for keeping the Universal, that thing was WAY too big for my liking.

    I am very surprised HTC did not put 3G in the Touch. That whole "consumer market" argument doesn't sit with me, because the new Dash in the making has 3G, and wi-fi.

    I'd rather believe they just couldn't fit it in the frame, because the CDMA version has EV (one radio needed, unlike GSM/UMTS)
  15. #55  
    Interesting article but the "other" OS in it is Palmsource (not the current Palm Linux OS). You know the OS that couldn't?

    Whatever happened to Palmsource (Access)? Is ANYONE going to use them (Palm certainly isn't).

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Typing with a stylus is definitely irritaiting. OTOH, for editing, photo manipulation, etc. I actually enjoy the stylus sometimes. Something about the pin-point accuracy.

    But, as was pointed out in the Brighthand article on WM5/6 and "Photon"--the WM OS is in a huge transition phase right now: somewhere in between "old school" PDA and "new school" smartphone. So the stylus, though needed less, is still a hold over from that phase.

    "Photon" by some accounts (Engadget, Brighthand) is very different in UI orientation e.g. no (or less) menus, large icons, touch friendly, etc.

    So, in this case HTC (and Palm) are just working with what they "got" so to speak.

    Honestly, you won't see WM really compete with the iPhone in terms of simple, elegant UI till "Photon" in mid-2008. TouchFLO and Palm's tweaks though go a long way to ameliorate the current UI. Incidentally, Palm's Linux OS is also similarly orientated.

    Great article on why "things are they way they are" with current WM devices: READ (note the article is from 8/06--way before the iPhone was known)
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    Interesting article but the "other" OS in it is Palmsource (not the current Palm Linux OS). You know the OS that couldn't?

    Whatever happened to Palmsource (Access)? Is ANYONE going to use them (Palm certainly isn't).
    What makes you suggest that? Palm never had a deal in the works to use ALP and they were in no position to show off another company's OS

    Sure there was tons of speculation seeing as Access was making it backwards compatible, but I never saw anything firm that suggest Palm and Access were going to both use ALP; heck Palm never endorsed nor showed support when ALP was "briefly demoed" last year. I don't think that was ever the plan as Palm wanted their own OS and full control over it (as well as proprietorship).

    If you can provide evidence otherwise I'd be interested.

    The plan for Access/ALP as I always understood was for mostly low-cost Asian markets. No U.S. carriers have mentioned support and not many manufacturers either. (I believe Vodaphone expressed interest and have a deal in place...)

    Plus, you can see Palm's plan/intentions for POSII right here.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattycerts View Post
    I am very surprised HTC did not put 3G in the Touch. That whole "consumer market" argument doesn't sit with me, because the new Dash in the making has 3G, and wi-fi.
    ok, now i'm not the only one. thanks.
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
  18. #58  
    Isn't the Foleo an ALP driven product?
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattycerts View Post
    I am very surprised HTC did not put 3G in the Touch. That whole "consumer market" argument doesn't sit with me, because the new Dash in the making has 3G, and wi-fi.
    Right, the "new" Dash aka it's 2nd generation replacement. The original did not.

    Like I said, when releasing a device world-wide they were trying to get deep market penetration and Wifi is more readily available than 3g is a lot of countries. Here in the U.S. that argument doesn't fly and it's 1 market specifically for a carrier e.g. that is an order commissioned vs. HTC releasing it anyone with a SIM card. To re-phrase: if only 40% world-wide could use the 3g in the Touch, does it make sense to mass produce a device that has 3g? Maybe, maybe not.

    Also, surur hinted that HTC was also trying to get buyers to pony up for a new device, much like Apple will with a U.S. 3g iPhone.

    Either way, who cares? The U.S. version will have 3g. Yay. If AT&T/T-mobile want one here in the States, they'll commission HTC to make one.

    And no, Foleo is definitely not an ALP device. Where did you hear that? It runs a linux core with a Palm UI on top.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattycerts View Post
    That whole "consumer market" argument doesn't sit with me,
    It doesn't seem to sit with Nokia either, and judged by results (sales) they know more about the consumer smartphone market than anyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pattycerts View Post
    because the new Dash in the making has 3G, and wi-fi.
    OTOH, I don't really agree with your reasoning because I don't really think the Dash is a consumer phone (neither it seems does Peter Chou of HTC - see my posts on pages one and two of this thread).
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