View Poll Results: Clie N710C vs. m505

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  • Clie!!!

    35 56.45%
  • m505!!!

    13 20.97%
  • neither!!!

    14 22.58%
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  1.    #1  
    Well I guess it's inevitable that these two new handhelds will go head-to-head.

    My accessments: trying to be as unbias as I can
    Palm m505:

    Advantages:
    1. sleek and slim design, sexy form-factor
    2. Palm OS 4.0
    3. 16-bit color
    4. SD memory card support and future expansion
    5. vibrating alarm
    6. silent alarm with blinking light

    Disadvantages:
    1. questionable screen quality: reports of dimness and dull colors
    2. only 160x160 resolution
    3. distracting grid-lines still present
    4. can not adjust brightness
    5. questions of battery life secondary to back-lighting remaining on constantly because of screen dimness.

    Clie PEG-N710C:

    Advantages:
    1. 320x320 high resolution screen with brighter color screen
    2. easier text reading in high res. and no grid-lines
    3. built-in MP3 and ATRAC palyback with built-in headphones
    4. multi-media capabilities: video playback
    5. ability to access multi-media audio/video directly off memory stick
    6. supports memory stick media which is also compatible with other Sony products
    7. 4MB of Flash ROM
    8. memory stick support with future expansions
    9. hardware video accelerator to enhance screen speed

    Disadvantages:
    1. Palm OS 3.5 that has been modified by Sony
    2. only 8-bit color
    3. slightly larger than the m505, not as sleek or "pocketable"
    4. supports memory stick media which is only compatible with other Sony products
    5. cost slightly more than the m505 ($50)
    6. expensive memory sticks vs. SD cards

    Well I hope I cover the major points as impartial as possible.

    What do you think?
    Last edited by Fat_Man; 05/02/2001 at 11:57 PM.
    Fat's
  2. #2  
    The N710c surely surprised me for being even better than
    the N700c, which I thought was the one to beat. I think the
    MP3 capacity and the 320X320 screen is definitely worth the
    50 bucks. I like the look of the new Clie, but I don't want
    to be hooked by Sony to use everything has its name on it
    by commit to the MemoryStick. I like the m505's looks too,
    but the screen doesn't impress me that much compared to the
    N710c's(haven't seen either, judging from the fotos). It
    was a hard decision but I went for the N710c for it
    innovation.
  3. #3  
    thanks for the comparison! still in the decision-making process and i agree with most of your points. however, i noticed that many people blame Sony for the high cost of their memory sticks. since i didn't know too much about the prices of other memory cards, i just did a quick search on MySimon.com for a 64 MB module.

    According to MySimon you can get a 64 MB Memory Stick for $100, the cheapest Secure Digital goes for $121, Compact Flash start around $70-80 and the Smart Media are the cheapest with $60 - 70.

    So, while the memory sticks are certainly not a bargain they are also not outrageously expensive. and especially, they seem to be cheaper than SD. Not to forget that at least the Handsprings still need an adapter...
    however, i admit that i didn't do a real bargain-hunt. if anyone knows better deals, let us know.

    Apart from this, I really would like to have a 128 MB card and those are now REALLY expensive. Essentially, that's the main reason which lets me hesitate. Does anyone know how mechanically stable those memory sticks are?
  4. mr_yellow's Avatar
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    #4  
    Most buyers who are in the market for these two PDAs obviously value colour and screen quality above all else. Here's the catch.

    m505 has 16bit color but ugly 'grid'
    Clie has 320x320 screen but only 256 colours

    Which is more valuable when it comes to "image quality"

    from the Clie's POV, is 256 colours enough of a compromise for a sharper screen?

    or

    from the m505's POV, is the black grid the compromise for 16 bit colour?

    If we can figure out this question, we'd have quantified which pda is more 'worth' it. Anyone want to comment on this?
  5. #5  
    There is a pretty good thread comparing 256 to 16bit here at VisorCentral. BradHaak once again offers a very detailed and enlightning comparison. Check it out:

    256 vs. 16 BIT
    In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. JOHN 14:2
  6. Rob
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    #6  
    What I would like to see is some side-by-side pictures of the same photo on the Prism/m505 and the SC2. Unfortunately, I don't think you could show them using the same application, because the photo app bundled with the SC2 that supports high-res images probably won't look as good as SplashPhoto on the Prism/m505...
  7. #7  
    Well the screen issue is going to be very personal choice or preference. I have the unit in the charger and am I waiting for the suggested 2 hours before "using" the M505 but on first looks with the unit on - I can tell you that indoors in moderate to low lighting the screen sidelight will be on much of the time for me.

    This is not a negative in my mind until I learn how quickly the battery drain is going to be with it on. The pixelation is better than a Prism and IIIC but not the iPaq - very accepatable but some might not think so.

    I believe that the Clie will be better based upon first looks but I'll be very content with the M505 because I don't need or want MPG player.

    If you are wondering which way to go then go check out a unit in person because none of the many web pages posting pictures will be as accurate as your own eyes.
    Moose Man
    Welcome my son, welcome to the machine.
    iPhone 3G, Treo 750, 680, 650, 600 and T5, T3, T, M515, M505, Vx, V, Prizm, Visor, IIIc, IIIe, Palm Pilot Professional, Palm Pilot (ok boys and girls a whopping 128k of memory - those were the days) and former Palm Beta tester.
  8. #8  
    Apparently, there is a 64K color supporting chip inside the N700c, not sure about the N710c thou, here it is:


    MediaQ MQ1100 description:
    The MediaQ MQ-11xx controllers redefine the end-user experience on handheld appliances. They enable Web browsing and other rich multimedia applications to run smoothly at resolutions up to 320x320 with 65,536 colors on passive and active LCDs. A high-performance 64-bit 2D graphics acceleration engine, with screen-to-screen BitBLT, provides users with graphics performance normally associated with desktop computers.

    Also, the TFT screen of N700c is capable of 64K color as well...

    Some user from Taiwan Clie User Group http://clie.idv.tw/ dug it up...
  9. #9  
    I think that even more than the color of each device, the mkt. for each will be det. by size & weight. Prob. most execs. still want the lightest, thinnest -- & this is still along the "V / 5" class.
    On top of this, most execs. prob. don't care about MP3 (as HS & Palm always insist -- like only 17% of users want it, or something?).
    If thin & light & MP3 is not as crucial to you, prob. the Clie is the way to go.
    "Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds." -- Albert Einstein
  10. #10  
    You forgot the most important point (at least for the next few weeks)...

    Clie PEG-N710C: Not available

    Palm M505: In my hands

    It's very weird to be writing that the palm M505 is shipping. What's even more weird ( as a friend pointed out), is that in spite of all of our ********, Palm actually hit their announced date for the M500 and beat it by a week for the M505.
  11. mr_yellow's Avatar
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    #11  
    You know.. after giving it some more thought, between Black Grid vs. 256 Colours...

    sony's screen wins out, hands down. There's too many advantages a 320x320 screen has over the m505 screen to compare to the fact that it's only 256 colours... (ie, sharper text, more screen space, overall better experience)

    I think i've shifted my main argument (in my mind) as this:

    Is the 320x320 screen more valuable on a pda than it's physical size?

    320x320 screen vs m505's form factor. Hrmm...

    In any case, I don't have to decide anytime soon.. I can happily wait a couple months before I really consider replacing my VDX.

    Just wondering if any others have any convincing arguements for either side...
  12. Rob
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    #12  
    Originally posted by mr_yellow
    There's too many advantages a 320x320 screen has over the m505 screen to compare to the fact that it's only 256 colours... (ie, sharper text, more screen space, overall better experience)
    Actually, it's not accurate to say that 320x320 gives you more screen space, since the screen's about the same size. What it does give you is more pixels per sq. inch, so you can cram more information in the same space (and get nicer fonts, sharper photos & games, etc.) Now the HandEra 330, on the other hand, does give you more screen space by generously allowing you to hide the graffiti area. Ultimately, though, I think you are right about form factor vs. resolution being the main decision to make regarding these two devices (it will also be interesting to see in person the difference between 160x160 16-bit color and 320x320 8-bit color for games, photos, etc.)
  13. #13  
    Maybe Sony waits for PalmOS 4 to support 16bit?
    Handspring developed the 16bit API, which is included in PalmOS 4.0 now. It could be that Sony waits for the new OS and developes a N710C version that supports 16bit on the SC2.
    Perhaps they only didn't want to develop an own 16bit API when the "old" Handsprin API is included in 4.0 already.
  14. mr_yellow's Avatar
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    #14  
    Thanks to Rob for posting those awesome high rez macro shots of the m505 screen.. i'm not sure if the camera did anything to alter the real life quality of the screen, but the 'black' grid that's apparent with the prism and IIIc looks to be grey which corresponds with a comment I read onsome other forum.. the image quality was still excellent, but still blocky. fortunately, it looks like it's legible and easy of the eyes.

    Soo.. does this sway people away from 320x320????
  15.    #15  
    Originally posted by mr_yellow
    Thanks to Rob for posting those awesome high rez macro shots of the m505 screen.. i'm not sure if the camera did anything to alter the real life quality of the screen, but the 'black' grid that's apparent with the prism and IIIc looks to be grey which corresponds with a comment I read onsome other forum.. the image quality was still excellent, but still blocky. fortunately, it looks like it's legible and easy of the eyes.

    Soo.. does this sway people away from 320x320????
    I don't think that these pictures will sway a lot of people. I think these are excellent picture and I don't think they have been altered in any way. However, I do think that these were taken under the best lighting conditions. That's a pretty bright light above the m505 on most of the pictures.

    Well, I guess it's personal perference on rather one thinks that the screen dim. There's a lot of reviewers that claim that the screen is just fine, but there are many others that complained. IMHO, more of the latter than the former.

    I personal take is that I cannot justify paying $450 on a product with only an "adequate" screen at best. Although the Clie has fewer colors, at least I will be able the view the screen.
    Fat's
  16. #16  
    Fat_Man, have you ever actually looked at the m505 screen in person? I've seen it and I think it's just beautiful.
  17. #17  
    Color isn't a great advantage yet, its only good really for black on white text, and the Clie wins with the higher resolution in that. The second reason for getting color is multimedia, the Clie wins there also because it actually has sounds for movies, etc... If I were buying a new PDA right now, I'd personally buy the Clie or the m500.
    Matt Nichols
    VigoSpraxPalm@Yahoo.com
  18.    #18  
    Originally posted by b1lanceman
    Fat_Man, have you ever actually looked at the m505 screen in person? I've seen it and I think it's just beautiful.
    Honestly, I have not seen the m505 in person. There are countless reports of the screen being dim and dull. I'm fairly certain that these reports are not a figment of my imagination, and I don't think that all these people are making things up, do you?

    If you think that the screen is beautiful then you are in the minority.
    Last edited by Fat_Man; 05/06/2001 at 02:50 PM.
    Fat's
  19. mr_yellow's Avatar
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    #19  
    [i] The second reason for getting color is multimedia, the Clie wins there also because it actually has sounds for movies, etc... If I were buying a new PDA right now, I'd personally buy the Clie or the m500. [/B]
    You know... this brings up an interesting question about the Clie's audio capabilities... is the integrated mp3/atrac3 player ONLY able to play mp3/atrac3 files???? are other programs even able to use it? If not, then multimedia-wise, the clie is just as multimedia enabled as the m505 as any kind of audio from games or a movie player will be piped through to the generic pc speaker buzzer...

    ???

    mr_yellow
    Last edited by mr_yellow; 05/06/2001 at 11:12 PM.
  20.    #20  
    This is pretty cool.

    There has been reports that Palm's SD card access is reportedly based on the work that Sony developed for the Clie's memory stick. As a result, both Palm and Sony share the same VFS (virtual file system) format. Several programs that allow users to access the Sony's memory stick, like MSMount and MSFile, also worked in a m505/m500. In other words, for storage and access purposes the Clie's memory stick works just like the m500/m505's SD card.

    And...

    Many 3rd party software companies are re-writing their program to be compliant with the SD card storage (http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1855). Since Palm and Sony share the some VFS, all future programs that's compliant with the SD card will be compliant with the memory stick!!

    ...Well at least that's the logical conclusion
    Fat's
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