View Poll Results: Clie N710C vs. m505

Voters
62. You may not vote on this poll
  • Clie!!!

    35 56.45%
  • m505!!!

    13 20.97%
  • neither!!!

    14 22.58%
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  1. #21  
    Originally posted by Fat_Man
    Honestly, I have not seen the m505 in person. There are countless reports of the screen being dim and dull. I'm fairly certain that these reports are not a figment of my imagination, and I don't think that all these people are making things up, do you?
    They're not. I looked at one last week at Office Depot, and the screen was practically illegible.

    If you think that the screen is beautiful then you are in the minority.
    Well, I suppose it's _possible_ that the screen is beautiful. Without being able to see it, though...
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  2. #22  
    Originally posted by Toby
    They're not. I looked at one last week at Office Depot, and the screen was practically illegible.
    BTW, I should add that I've also had the opportunity to play with an m500 a bit also (purchased for a bigwig here to upgrade his Vx), and the screen on those is most excellent. The backlighting on my Edge is much better than on my Deluxe, but the m500 is just phenomenal. All things considered, though, I still prefer my Edge.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  3. #23  
    I also checked one out at Office Depot. I have to say I was in shock! The colors were very dim (not sure if the side lights were on) and the black grid was really overshadowing everything. There was a Palm VII next to it and the difference in legibility was really amazing. in short, the m505 sucked! I asked the store manager if this display unit might have a problem but he said that it looked like it from the beginning. okay, let's palm give some credit and assume that this unit was not representative... I can not imagine that someone would spent $450 for this.
    Later, I played with an IPAQ at Circuit City. And I hate to admit it but the screen really rocked. no comparison to the m505. however, to my "relief" I managed to crash the IPaq twice in 5 minutes
    does anyone know what retailers will distribute the Clie?

    Joerg
  4. #24  
    All kidding aside (well, never completely aside ), my m505 has the best display of any PDA I have ever used with the exception of the IPAQ.

    OK, now that I have your attention, let me explain what I mean...

    I find that in normal indoor lighting conditions, without the backlight, the screen is higher contrast than any of the monochrome PDAs that I have used (and I have used all of them). With the sidelight on there is no comparison to mono PDAs. It is acceptable color. At this point, the IIIc and Prism have a slight advantage.

    In a dim or dark room, the m505 display with the backlight on is about the brightness that I set the IIIc and Prism to anyway. This is a three way tie.

    Now let's move outside. Today at lunch, I was sitting in the bright sunlight outside of Apple's cafeteria reading "The Skies of Pern". The display almost shimmers in this environment. The contrast is extremely good with a kind of light silverish background - very readable. Also, unlike the mono units, the m505 didn't get darker after sitting in direct sunlight for a few minutes. Big m505 advantage.

    One thing that I have noticed, is that with use over the last few days, the contrast of the screen and the brightness of the backlight have increased noticeably. I thought it was just me, but my boss commented on it a little while ago (he wants one, so keeps asking to look at it ).

    The IPAQ is slightly better because of the adjustable and brighter backlight. But among Palm OS devices, the m505 has by far the most readable display over the broadest range of conditions.

    Your mileage may vary, as may your opinions, but this is how I see it (literally) and my opinions are the only ones that count (to me at least).
  5. #25  
    [i].... reason for getting color is ....[/B]
    Maps! Somehow everyone always seems to forget maps. IMHO, most of the maps I've seen (via ImageViewer, JunglePort, etc.) -- incl. subway maps -- are prac. worthless in b&w.
    And of course calendar apps are largely improved by color.
    "Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds." -- Albert Einstein
  6. #26  
    Ok ok I finally got to look at a M505 at Staples. I was lucky that they didn't sell the demo model because they all flew out the store on day one.
    Both the Prism and the M505 are selling for $449.98.

    The form factor was nice. Still the best around. But the screen didn't impress me that much. Needs to be brighter. Though it whoops the daylights outta my prism in outdoor conditions. After holding he Palm M505 for five minutes, I found myself feeling very secure with my investment in my Prism. But for how long? That Clie N710c looks like a winner.

    For now I'll stick with my Visor Prism until I see something that is really worth the upgrade. (Like a 320x320 color edge? )
    Last edited by mikedemo; 05/08/2001 at 02:37 PM.
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  7. #27  
    Well if all you want is a 256 color display with decent memory & is rechargable. Just go with a IIIc, palm has 'em used on their site for about $210.00!


    I like the M505, its sleek fast and expandable. Granted the screen won't lite up a room like the Sony but it's good enough. Saying that, I do hope people start buying the new Clie', hopefully that will lite a fire under Palm & make them issue an update for the screen.
  8. #28  
    I saw these pics of the 2 side by side

    http://www2.pdabuzz.com/Forums/showt...threadid=16743
  9.    #29  
    Wow, thanks mcmach1!! Those pictures showed a very good comparison between the two screens under different lighting conditions. It appears to me that the Clie's display is in almost every way superior to the m505. The reviewer at Pen Computing said this about the Clie:

    "In all low-light circumstances, it outshines the competition, its pixels appearing much closer to white, instead of metallic blue. In the direct sun, the m505 often looks a little more contrasty."

    Regardless of you affection for the m505, you can't deny that in terms of screen quality the Clie has the m505 beat. People may argue "The m505 a 'little more contrasty' in direct sunlight!", well unless you're a lifeguard...

    The constant complaint that the Clie only has 8-bit color is beginning to sound like desparation. If you look at the pictures, I really, honestly don't see that much of a difference in color depth between the m505 and the Clie, do you?. Maybe it's because you can hardly see the m505's display at all!! Sorry, but this is not an entirely smarta__ crack about the m505. Screen brightness does affect color depth.

    When the Clie was compared to the Prism, the Prism looked more vivid, but the Prism is also a lot brighter than the m505. IMHO, for the color depth to be fully display, you need a brighter screen like the Prism.

    Also there are reports that the Clie's 8-bit color has a richer palette. It appears the 256 colors were from a 12-bit palette which offers more colors variations than just 8-bit. I don't know how it works, just what I read.
    Fat's
  10. #30  
    Originally posted by Fat_Man
    Also there are reports that the Clie's 8-bit color has a richer palette. It appears the 256 colors were from a 12-bit palette which offers more colors variations than just 8-bit. I don't know how it works, just what I read.
    This is standard Palm OS stuff - 256 out of 4096 colors. Exactly the same as the palette on the Palm IIIc. Check out the programming docs if you don't believe this.

    Also it's significantly inferior to the PC 256 color mode that people remember from the old VGA days. This was an 18-bit palette for 256 out of 262,000 colors.

    I'm glad that you think that the new Clie is perfect for you. For me, it is still too big and clunky (relatively speaking). Especially once you bring along the headphones and various other equipment. It's too thick to be comfortable in my pocket and too small to support the kind of power use that a bright hi-res screen and audio decoding/playback will require. Since the audio playback uses a DSP with a separate set of hardware, this will be an additional power draw. Don't get too far from your charger.

    Admittedly the 320x320 display would be cool for games, but until Sony puts some better fonts in, it is going to be eyestrain city.

    Converting the Palm fonts to exactly corresponding thin one pixel wide hi-res fonts is really dumb with the resolution that they have to work with. They should have put in some nice readable fonts. As it is, I'm not sure that the screen on the Clie won't be harder to read. A few weeks ago we had a big discussion about this fact. If Sony had used fonts with an equivalent weight, the display would be much more readable than any 160x160 display. But with the cheesy faces that are in all of the published screen shots, you better be wearing bifocals (maybe trifocals).

    Like I said, if this is what you want, have fun. For now, I will stick to my m505.
  11. #31  
    Was just following a thread on another discussion board and had to realize that my previously posted prize comparison for the various memory formats is not completely fair.

    SD includes, of course, some copyright scheme and should therefore be compared to Sony's Magic Gate Memory Sticks. The equivalent to the regular Memory Sticks are, of course, MMC cards. Now just did a quick check again on MySimon and guess what I found? A 64MB MMC is $79 whereas a 64MB memory stick is... $83. Ooopsss! Appearently, the prices for the memory sticks dropped in the last days by 20%. Maybe an effort by Sony to make them more attractive for the Clie???
    Anyway, according to MySimon a 64MB SD card still sells for $122. Couldn't find an offer for a Magic Gate Memory STick on MySimon. Sony's website asks for $145 and $160 for the regular and the copyright version, respectively.
    So, as long as you restrict yourself to the non-protected memory (and why wouldn't you?) and don't buy from Sony directly, the memory prize is not decisive for the awful decision: m505 or Clie? or wait until the 128MB version are in the $70 range???
  12. #32  
    A 128MB MemoryStick for $70 could be possible. Doesn't Sony develop a new MemoryStick that is a bit smaller and faster?

    -> http://www.memorystick.org/msinfo/eng/ms/duo.html

    Sounds good, because then the "old" MemoryStick could become a bit cheaper.

    Memory Stick Duo maintains the complete compatibility with the existing Memory Stick not only in the file format and related aspects but also in physical size when you attach an adapter.
    Nice feature, but i'll prefer the standard Sticks because of the lower price.
  13. BNelson's Avatar
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    #33  
    I just got a Micro Center ad in the mail last week. They have the 64 mb Memory Stick for $70...that's fairly cheap expansion, if you ask me.
  14.    #34  
    That's something I didn't know, but according to the review on Business Week:

    "One thing is certain: To use the music player, you'll need a lot more memory than the 8 megabyte Memory Stick that comes with the CLIE. That will only give you about 15 minutes of medium-quality music, although it should allow about an hour's worth of storage using the built-in voice recorder"

    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...0/b3732044.htm

    Thanks to xstitcher for first posting the link to the article.
    Fat's
  15.    #35  
    There's a very thorough and imformative review of the m505 by Julie of the Gadgeteer. There's a lot of pictures of the m505 and comparisons to the Compaq. She mentions the screen too, I'll just let you form your opinion on that issue.

    http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/m505-review.html
    Fat's
  16. #36  
    Bad news for palm. Reviews are going against them that much. I guess they just better pray that the company doesn't die out before their next handhelds come out. The only new handheld with PalmOS worth buying is the handera if you ask me. I liked the m505 screen myself, but I wouldn't want a handheld that noone else has. I depend on user support not on tech support hotlines.
  17.    #37  


    The m505, the Clie, and the Prism (I think).

    See the Clie in action:

    http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1002.html?tag=sb#
    Last edited by Fat_Man; 05/10/2001 at 10:53 PM.
    Fat's
  18. #38  
    Originally posted by b1lanceman
    Bad news for palm. Reviews are going against them that much. I guess they just better pray that the company doesn't die out before their next handhelds come out. The only new handheld with PalmOS worth buying is the handera if you ask me. I liked the m505 screen myself, but I wouldn't want a handheld that noone else has. I depend on user support not on tech support hotlines.
    And you think the HE is going to have a larger user base? Why? If you're saying you'd buy the HE because of features, the Sony has it beat on every point except proprietary memory expansion (which only the CF slot on the HE can be considered non-proprietary right now Palm is the only show utilizing the SD slot).BTW, can you use both slots on the HE at the same time?
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  19.    #39  
    You know what I find amazing in this Clie vs. m505 debate. Well...not much on this tread, I guess visorcentral members are more civilize, but the discussions on other websites (Palmstation, PalmInfocenter), the comments are just outrageous!!
    Fat's
  20. #40  
    I finally got to play with a M505, just at a local CompUSA. It wasn't as bad as I'd heard. The screen is a bit dim under those conditions, but not terrible, particularly with the sidelight on. I wasn't moved to turn in my Prism, but I didn't hate it either.

    I guess I'm damning it with faint praise, but I agree with Fat Man - to read other forums and reviews, you'd think this thing was the biggest piece of crap to ever come down the pike. It's not that bad. If I wanted a color screen with a smaller form factor (and I didn't have a couple hundred bucks sunk into springboard already), I'd think about buying one.
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