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  1. #61  
    Originally posted by yaz320
    Pocket PC is going to win the war. So many people are unhappy with where Palm is going and how SLOW they are. This is just like Apple and PC. Eventually the PC (PocketPC) will catch up with Apple (Palm OS) and overtake them...

    Apple started out being easy to use, but its TOO easy. Palm OS is TOO BORING and TOO EASY, I want Macromedia Flash like they have on Pocket PC...

    Before you call me a whiner, the customer/consumer is always right...and I AM the customer, so I WILL get what I WANT.

    For all we know the next version of Pocket PC will be 400 mhz and will have a Geforce3 inside it, and people will be playing Quake 3 in the palm of their hands...and Palm OS users will be playing hardball or something like that, or maybe Pong.

    Pocket PC users will be making Powerpoint presentations on their PDA, and Palm OS users will be using Tiny Sheet to ATTEMPT to edit an Excel chat.

    'nuff said.
    Why don't you get a PocketPC already and give us all a break?

    Teh Customer is always right yes. You have the right to get PocketPC just like how the smart customers have the right to get a Palm OS device.

    If you want all the functionality of your desktop on the Go, get a laptop.

    How can something such as an Organizer be to easy to use?

    AND why the hell should I want to play Quake and make power point presentations on my Visor or Palm for that matter?

    The current crop of PocketPCs sports 200+ Mhx processors. YET, the Palm OS devices with tehir puny 33 Mhz processors are a lot easier to use and does things a lot faster...Go Figure.
  2. #62  
    Regarding HandEra:

    Yes, after reading the specs. of the HandEra, I agree that they certainly put a lot of innovations into the new unit. Compare to the new palm m500 and the Edge, I would say that the HandEra device has kudos of improvements.

    I have read from earlier post that the HandEra 330 was design with bussiness professional in mind. I agree that the unit does seem to be geared toward that particular subset of PDA buyers with emphasis on practically over multimedia flash...

    However...IMHO, I thnk that HandEra missed some important points:

    1. Size and weight does matter: One of the features that made the Palm Vx (and the Edge-hopefully) so popular is its size, weight, and shape. It's the perfect size to slip into a shirt pocket or the breast pocket of your businsess jacket. Look at the HandEra, this thing is huge compare to the Vx. Plus, with 4AAA batteries?, and supposedly metal casing? this thing is gonna be big and heavy. Basically, whoever buying this unit is gonna have an unsightly bulge and sagging clothes...which is not very attractive.

    2. Color is in: It appears that HandEra was doing everything right, they improved on the resolution, but left out the color. Color can be very important in business having color adds another level of organization to your PDA. Although very few professionals would use their PDA to play Quake 3, color screens are nice visually and improves text reading. Color with increased resolution makes everything even nicer. The grid-lines on a 160x160 resolution was very distracting and was one of the reasons that I didn't want to invest in a Prism.
    Last edited by Fat_Man; 04/22/2001 at 10:56 PM.
    Fat's
  3. Tom Munch's Avatar
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    #63  
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by bradhaak
    [B]

    Higher resolution is ALWAYS more readable. That is why we now use laser printers instead of 9 pin dot matrix printers. If you need a wider line on a higher res display, you can always double or triple the pixels. However there is no way to make a big pixel look smaller for a fine line.

    My Jornada with higher resolution is not more readable than my Prism or my Edge. The finer line is not bold enough to read as clearly. Doubling or tripling the pixels just makes for less text on the screen when the resolution is only 240. I still vote for 320 if there is a choice. Of course someday we will have 1024 or higher & this will be irrelevant.
  4. #64  
    Originally posted by zelchenko
    It just occurred to me that since the grafitti area is generated by the screen, it can be
    There is one picture of the backlit screen, including the Graffiti area, on the Handera 330. It's somewhere on this board, and on other Palm/Visor sites too.

    You're not strange; it can be useful on a nighttime plane or train ride, during a blackout... It IS nice.
  5. #65  
    Originally posted by yaz320
    Pocket PC is going to win the war.
    You're probably right that sometime in the future everybody will have and want behemoth handhelds. But the technology isn't there yet, so the current Palms and PocketPCs are serving different markets. People like you who want something fancy (and maybe more importantly, have enough $$) will gravitate towards PocketPC, and others will stick with the current Palms. Both platforms have good points and bad points and neither of the CURRENT OS's will be the final "victor" if there is one.


    This is just like Apple and PC.
    I don't think it's wise to compare completely different companies in completely different eras and markets to each other--especially without any evidence!


    Before you call me a whiner, the customer/consumer is always right...and I AM the customer, so I WILL get what I WANT.
    All of the equally vociferous Palm advocates here are customers too.

    As for me, everybody should buy just whatever the hell they want and leave everybody else alone.
  6. #66  
    Originally posted by bradhaak

    The higher res displays that are starting to show up are using external LCD controllers.
    You can probably answer a couple of nagging questions I've had, namely where to get good information about the hardware inside the Visors.

    I know some products (e.g. the Prism?) use Epson LCD controllers. But the Visor Deluxe Product Guide at the Handspring site says that the Vdx LCD controller is "integrated onto CPU."

    From what I could get off the Dragonball EZ information from Motorola, it only supports 2-bits per pixel. These 2 bits are an index into a palette of 4 colors, selected from 16 grayscale levels (hope somebody can follow that).

    This implies that the Vdx and any machine using the Dragonball LCD controller can only use 4 of the 16 grayscales at any time.

    But some programs like SplashPhoto advertise support for 4-bit grayscales for the Vdx. So is that slightly misleading advertising, or is there a way to get around the 2-bit Dragonball limitation, or can you switch palettes maybe for every display row (didn't seem likely from the docs, but the old Apple IIgs did something like that IIRC)?
  7. #67  
    Anyone else notice that the link listed in the news item ( http://www.handera.com ) asks for a login instead of going to a normal page?
    Jeff
  8. #68  
    Originally posted by Tom Munch

    My Jornada with higher resolution is not more readable than my Prism or my Edge. The finer line is not bold enough to read as clearly. Doubling or tripling the pixels just makes for less text on the screen when the resolution is only 240. I still vote for 320 if there is a choice. Of course someday we will have 1024 or higher & this will be irrelevant.
    You missed the point completely. Think of the printer comparison that I used earlier. As resolution increased from less than 100 DPI in the late eighties, to well over 1000 DPI today, text size on the printed page has remained the same. This is because for most people 10-12 point text is the most readable, general purpose, print size. Instead of trying to print the text smaller, we now have printouts that closely resemble typeset quality output.

    The same idea applies to the screen of a PDA. Except for specific applications, you won't cut the height and width of text in half just because you have doubled the resolution. Instead you will use more detailed fonts. These high resolution fonts are smoother and more detailed. Unless the fonts are badly designed they will always be more readable than corresponding low resolution fonts.

    If you are having problems reading the display on your Jornada, change the size of the fonts that it is using or download new fonts to replace the default typefaces. With the additional resolution that you have, this is a valid choice. I admit that my Jornada has the worst display of the big three, Pocket PC families, so you might need to adjust it more. My IPAQ is quite a bit better and the Casio E125 is incredible. The Casio looks better than any monitor that I have ever used.
  9. #69  
    Originally posted by dalamar70


    I know some products (e.g. the Prism?) use Epson LCD controllers. But the Visor Deluxe Product Guide at the Handspring site says that the Vdx LCD controller is "integrated onto CPU."

    From what I could get off the Dragonball EZ information from Motorola, it only supports 2-bits per pixel. These 2 bits are an index into a palette of 4 colors, selected from 16 grayscale levels (hope somebody can follow that).

    This implies that the Vdx and any machine using the Dragonball LCD controller can only use 4 of the 16 gray scales at any time.

    But some programs like SplashPhoto advertise support for 4-bit grayscales for the Vdx. So is that slightly misleading advertising, or is there a way to get around the 2-bit Dragonball limitation, or can you switch palettes maybe for every display row (didn't seem likely from the docs, but the old Apple IIgs did something like that IIRC)?
    You are correct, the Prism (as well as the IIIc and I believe the new SONY) use different Epson controllers. The VDx and the Platinum do use the controller built into the EZ processor. The original DragonBall only supported 2 bits-per-pixel (BPP). One of the mail enhancements to the DragonBall EZ is support for 4 BPP monochrome graphics. This is why the older palms like the original Palm III, only support 1 and 2 BPP graphics even if you upgrade the OS.

    So this means that the hardware in a VDx can display 16 levels of gray. The problem is that the OS doesn't support it. Apps that do support 4 BPP modes on a VDx are doing it by throwing the OS out the window and programming the hardware directly. This is perfectly legitimate. It just takes more work.

    Hopefully that is clear as mud.
  10. #70  
    Originally posted by bradhaak

    I admit that my Jornada has the worst display of the big three, Pocket PC families, so you might need to adjust it more. My IPAQ is quite a bit better and the Casio E125 is incredible. The Casio looks better than any monitor that I have ever used.

    1. Jornada
    2. Casio
    3. Ipaq
    4. #? palms

    Dude, how many handhelds DO you have?

    That was a very good explanation on resolution by the way.

    I got a few questions about these new ARM processors that everyone is talking about that will be incorporated into the next generation of Palms, how good are they? Will they be like going from a 486 to the Pentiums? Can you give an estimate of when these new processors will be available?

    Thanks
    Fat's
  11. #71  
    Originally posted by yaz320
    Apple started out being easy to use, but its TOO easy. Palm OS is TOO BORING and TOO EASY, I want Macromedia Flash like they have on Pocket PC...
    TOO EASY? Nothing could be too easy, Macs are still around mainly because they ARE easy. Isn't that why we have computers in the first place, to help find some record by typing "Find" instead of sifting through 1,000,000 documents and folders manually? Why not go back to manual "finds" because computers make this task TOO EASY?

    Not to offend anyone, but anyone that supports Dubya does not seem that intelligent to me. Be a Republican, sure, that is a philosophical position that I won't criticize on the grounds of intelligence, but Dubya is not that bright of a guy. I wouldn't take advice from anyone that is taking advice from him.

    Anyway, the Handera device seems great. If Quicksheet is running great in landscape mode, I would believe that TRG's core users would surely upgrade, as this suits the real business professional more than the ability to play Quake III. I am hoping Handspring would support Handera and implement the same technology for monochrome screens and help Palm consider doing the same. This is a real breakthrough innovation on the Palm platform, much more so than MP3 or color. If this technology can get down to the m100 and standard Visor devices, it would definitely close any usability gaps that may exist between Pocket PC and Palm OS devices.
    Once in a while you get shown
    the light....
  12. #72  
    It has a nice feature list, but that is the most ****-ugly Palm I have ever seen. Reminds me of those cheap knock-off $20 'personal organizers' some places advertise.
  13. #73  
    Originally posted by Fat_Man
    1. Size and weight does matter: One of the features that made the Palm Vx (and the Edge-hopefully) so popular is its size, weight, and shape. It's the perfect size to slip into a shirt pocket or the breast pocket of your businsess jacket. Look at the HandEra, this thing is huge compare to the Vx. Plus, with 4AAA batteries?, and supposedly metal casing? this thing is gonna be big and heavy. Basically, whoever buying this unit is gonna have an unsightly bulge and sagging clothes...which is not very attractive.
    But you're assuming that the core TRG audience "wears" their handheld instead of simply sticking it in their briefcase, as they would a day-timer. Contrary to popular belief, not everyone enjoys keeping their handheld in their pocket. I tried carrying both my old Palm III and my newer Prism in my pocket, and neither seemed comfortable. Not so much because of size and weight, but it just didn't "feel" right to carry around a $XXX piece of computer hardware in my pants pocket. So I got myself a leather case, and I carry it like a planner.

    As for being heavy, metal and huge -
    1) the last time I checked, AAA batteries weren't that heavy, so I can't imagine 2 more causing an earth-shattering increase in weight. Plus, the increased battery life (FOUR MONTHS without changing batteries!) would outweigh the potential drawback of an extra ounce.
    2) most users WANT metal cases, even if it does mean the addition of an ounce or two.
    3) as I said earlier, I owned the Palm III, and I never thought of it as "huge". In fact, I've always thought of the Palm V as "too tiny" - I like using a handheld that doesn't disappear into my palm. (No pun intended.) Plus, all the Palm III accessories will work, meaning that current TRG users won't get screwed by upgrading.

    On top of all this, though, is the fact that these seem to be the features that TRG's customers (BUSINESS customers) wanted to see added. Which brings me to your second point...

    2. Color is in: It appears that HandEra was doing everything right, they improved on the resolution, but left out the color. Color can be very important in business having color adds another level of organization to your PDA. Although very few professionals would use their PDA to play Quake 3, color screens are nice visually and improves text reading. Color with increased resolution makes everything even nicer. The grid-lines on a 160x160 resolution was very distracting and was one of the reasons that I didn't want to invest in a Prism.
    Maybe so, but color also exponentally decreases battery life. If this is being aimed at BUSINESS users, then color is not practical right now. As others have pointed out, until a screen is available that can provide the clarity of the Prism's display AND the thin dimensions of the 505's display (and do it all at a low cost), you won't see color in a unit like this. I agree that color is a great tool for aiding organization, but I don't see anyone using their PalmOS handhelds (or their PPC Handhelds, for that matter) as their sole source for something like a PowerPoint presentation - most salespeople still carry laptops and LCD projectors or TV connectors for that sort of thing.

    And as for playing Quake 3? Well, as I said, this unit is aimed at the business customer, and I think to them, having the two storage slots, a voice recorder and all the benefits of the enhanced screen were more important than playing Quake. (Again, most people carry laptops for that sort of thing anyway.)

    Color is still a niche market. Until the price comes down dramaticly, and color displays are common and cheap enough to replace monochromes, it will remain so.
  14. #74  
    Some great features, but oh so ugly!
  15. #75  
    Did you guys read the spec of interface... it was Serial!!

    Visor's USB is a bliss, why newer model still use serial
    << yes, indeed >>
  16. #76  
    Originally posted by mint
    Did you guys read the spec of interface... it was Serial!!

    Visor's USB is a bliss, why newer model still use serial
    Windows NT. This is a business machine.
  17. #77  
    Originally posted by Vertigo
    It has a nice feature list, but that is the most ****-ugly Palm I have ever seen. Reminds me of those cheap knock-off $20 'personal organizers' some places advertise.
    Thank you. I thought the same thing when I first saw it. Second and third looks didn't help any. But what a great feature set.

    I'm just not sure that I could stand looking at it to use it. Maybe the folks at CoolColors will adopt their Palm III case for this thing.
  18. Rob
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    #78  
    Hey, did TRG/HandEra ever figure out how to get an Ethernet CF card to work in the TRGPro?
    That might be an issue for some people considering the new HandEra device, since I know
    lots of folks have been asking for wired ethernet...
  19. #79  
    Originally posted by Fat_Man



    1. Jornada
    2. Casio
    3. Ipaq
    4. #? palms

    Dude, how many handhelds DO you have?

    That was a very good explanation on resolution by the way.

    I got a few questions about these new ARM processors that everyone is talking about that will be incorporated into the next generation of Palms, how good are they? Will they be like going from a 486 to the Pentiums? Can you give an estimate of when these new processors will be available?

    Thanks
    To see the current list go to What kind of Visor do you own?, and add an M500 .

    As far as the ARM processors, they are very good. A 200 MHz version in the IPAQ actually makes the PocketPC very usable. BY the time Palm is ready to ship OS5 (hopefully late Q3/early Q4 of next year), There should be chips available running at well over 500 MHz. When you look at how much more efficient the instructions set is, that is probably twenty times as fast as the Prism. Now there is nothing to say that anybody will ship superfast chips immediately since speed = shorter battery life. But even a 100 MHz StrongARM processor would provide almost a 4X speedup. That ought to be enough for native MP3 decoding.
  20. #80  
    First, hi-resolution is the one feature that will decide when I buy a new Palm PDA. It's really the only item on my hotlist.

    However, neither the Clie or the Handera, though providing higher resolution, interest me. This is because (as I understand it -- please correct me if I'm wrong) for Palm applications to display hi-res on these PDAs, they need to contain code specially written for that particular PDA.

    Which means that purchasing a Clie 2 or a Handera is betting that one or the other will dominate the PDA market to such an extent as to force Palm applications to support their PDA. Not a good bet.

    To really achieve a high-resolution app solution for a Palm PDA, one needs:

    1) A PDA with a high-res display capability
    2) The Palm OS to have API support for higher-resolution
    displays. I.e., a common set of Palm OS functions for displaying high-res, with the PDA manufacturer implementing the display code supporting the functions for their PDAs.

    That way, a Palm application that wants to support high-res only needs to write the code once. And, for the PDA purchaser, it takes the gamble out of the equation.

    So the question becomes: any Palm developers out there who attend Palm development conferences have hints as to when high-res display functionality may be included in the Palm OS? (I assume it isn't there in 4.0.)
    Jeff Meyer

    "And he died like he lived: with his mouth wide open."
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