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  1. #41  
    Originally posted by Fat_Man
    Is it me or does the Edge look better and better with the introduction of the new handhelds.
    That's the ultimate bitter irony. Even though I can't wait for the M505, the Edge still holds a place in my heart. I fell in love with it from the moment I opened the box. It has a unique design, and it grows on you. I do agree, as others have said, that it has some "cheap" aspects to its design, but it's still quite beautiful. If Handspring offered a color unit with the same LCD screen as the M505/iPaq, I'd bypass the M505 altogether just to have the Edge's design.

    Sadly, the M505 will be the stopping point for me, at least for now. I have a new computer to buy later this summer, so I have to start saving my pennies. Looks like the Mac will get my vote after all, who would have ever thought I would become a Mac user (somewhere, someone is turning over in their grave!). And my new dog will be born next week, I will get first pick of the litter around the middle of June. I was thinking of naming him Taylor, since I named my last Doberman Zach (God, I miss him).

    I've converted soo many people into Palm/Handspring users that I should be given some sort of kickback. Now, no one can believe that I don't own a PDA! I keep saying; "Good thing's come to those who wait!". Ah, if only that were true!
    Last edited by foo fighter; 04/21/2001 at 07:16 PM.
  2. #42  
    Originally posted by Fat_Man
    The Clie is still the one to beat in my opinion.
    Yes but it also costs $100 more (supposedly) than the Handera 330. They seem to be aimed at slightly different markets; so far all the color devices are $450. The 330 should give the VE, Vpl and m500 a nice run for anybody trying to save money.
  3. #43  
    What I would really like to see is Palm get their butts in gear with the OS so we can get some real innovation. They are holding everyone else behind.

    All of these new models have some nice features...but there really isn't a nice leap forward...nothing big enough for me to switch from the Prism yet. I just saw a new article on the iPaq (a new prototype) and I have to say...it was sweet. I wouldn't own one...but I would like to see aspects of it in the Palm platform.

    It really is exciting though...to see this market start to expand. I just read that 9.1 million PDAs are expected to be sold this year...a growth of 3 million over last year...so still plenty of room for all...and if you ask me...still anybody's game.
    I saw that everyone else had a signature and I felt left out, so here is mine.
  4. #44  
    One thing not mentioned is that the Handera comes with QuickOffice. I assume this means it comes with quickOffice already optimized for the high res screen.

    I imaging myself using a $40 Landware keyboard already available for it. (every III periferal works with it, along with all the new SD stuff)

    I imaginge myself using an SD barcode scanner with an enormous database on a CF card.

    I imagine being able to access a full encyclopedia running on Palm OS.

    I imagine an infanite ammount of reference material in a form factor the size of my Visor Deluxe.

    A voice recorder while using an SD accessory, while plugged into a cell phone, and a huge database on CF... WOW

    Think about how much more useful bug me is going to be with that resolution.

    I actually USE my handheld rather than play with it. This thing is perfect!!!

    It isn't the most attractive thing in the world when you look at the internet pics of it, but I thought the edge was pretty ugly 'til I held one. I bet it makes a better impression in person.
  5. #45  
    This bigger screen is going to be a very great thing, I'd put money on it.

    sam
    Sam Kleinman

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    "Everybody don't like something and we all don't like you." -- Richard Thompson, Hard Luck Stories
  6.    #46  
    This bigger screen is going to be a very great thing, I'd put money on it.
    The thing is though they need color. For $75-100 I am sure they can add a nice color screen to it. For that price, I'm sure most people would choose it over the m505, because of the features. I'm tired of monochrome and could never buy another monochrome unit, unless it was a secondary one. My primary handheld would have to be color.
    <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" id="all" leftmargin="10" topmargin="10" marginwidth="10" marginheight="10" link="#000000" vlink="#000000" alink="#000000">

    <img src="http://www.msnbc.com/d/v/130x100/n_bush_accept_001213.jpg">

    <br><b><font color="#0000FF" size="2">Proudly led by "Dubya"</font></b></center>

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  7. #47  
    Originally posted by weberflo
    Nooooooo!!!
    Dear Handheld developers, PLEASE do not invent any own creations (like the HandEra screen now) but do such things together. The Clie 2's screen is good enough. Take this one.
    Well if all of the hardware was the same among all Palm manufacturers, it would be good for consistency but bad for each company's competitive edge. The Clie 2 itself is an independent Sony creation; programs that take advantage of the 320x320 screen will not work on other current machines. And as many others pointed out, if we all keep waiting for Palm, we might have to wait quite some time.

    Some things like screen resolution shouldn't be too hard to account for in programming -- query the OS for the screen size and adjust accordingly. Of course most existing programs may not do that...
  8. #48  
    Originally posted by yaz320


    The thing is though they need color. For $75-100 I am sure they can add a nice color screen to it.
    I'm sure that to add color, the unit would also need to be thicker. This is why the Prism is thicker than the Vdx or Platinum. Only instead of having to accomodate a springboard slot, the HandEra needs to make room for the SD and CF slots. When the technology for high clarity, thin color screens is matured, I'm sure it'll be tough to find a monochrome screen; I'm just not sure we're there yet.

    Actually, considering they are basically dealing with the old TRG Pro form factor, they have done a good job with squeezing in an SD slot, microphone and a real speaker!

    Ron
  9. #49  
    I am very surprised by how many of you are missing the point of Handera/TRG: they want business users!!! They don't care about all the people at home playing freecell in color while listening to MP3s on their palm; they want to target the businesses that will buy these units by the tens and hundreds. No one has yet mentioned that it uses a serial port, which is a direct result of the millions of NT 4.0 computers out there that don't support USB.
    What I would really like to see is Palm get their butts in gear with the OS so we can get some real innovation
    When you look at all they've done with this unit, it really is revolutionary, esp. in the business world. Everything is very logical. For legacy apps the screen can be stretched (which actually looks nice) or run in a window. Multiply the pixels by 1.5 and it works out nicely. Many developers have had the emulator for months and some apps, like BigClock, already run in 240x320 mode. They've given you the option of 4 AAAs, a requirement for the high power specs of some CF cards, or a Lithium Ion batter that can be plugged in and recharged from an adapter in the side. There is the 'old school' backlight that users have been begging for incessantly. In a remarkable departure from every other PDA manufacturer, they've keep the same form factor and connector so all current accessories work. You can see the graffiti as you write, change the silkscreen buttons, have *real* audio on a palm device, duel simultaneous expansion options, a blinking LED alarm, advanced fonts, a jog dial, faster dram; the list goes on and on and on. This seems to be the first unit where the developers actually listened to their customers, and built a product accordingly. So now, for about $50 more than a Platinum, you can have a device that does more than any other handheld on the market now. If a little company in Iowa can do so much with almost no financial backing, what's taking Handspring so long?
  10. #50  
    Originally posted by dalamar70


    Some things like screen resolution shouldn't be too hard to account for in programming -- query the OS for the screen size and adjust accordingly. Of course most existing programs may not do that...
    Actually, it's easy in some ways and hard in others. Actually writing to a higher resolution display is obviously easy. You just use bigger numbers in the coordinates.

    Making a single program run in different resolutions is more complex, especially for beginning to intermediate programmers. You have to calculate the sizes and positions of all UI elements relative to screen edges. This can't be done well by an automatic process because you may have certain controls that you want to have grow to fill the available real estate, and other controls that need to stay a specific size. This also means that all screen layouts need to be created at run time since all of the current visual development tools assume a 160x160 display. Actually it is possible that PilRC (the resource compiler used with the GNU development tools) might support higher resolution modes from a hand edited file. In that case all that you would need to provide are separate resource forms for each resolution. Currently that would include 160x160, 240x240, 240x320, and 320x320.

    Programs are going to get big. You are really going to need that memory expansion.

    Nothing insurmountable here, but I think that it is going to take a while to shake out. Until then, you probably won't see more that a handful of programs that really take advantage of the new resolutions. As time goes by, tools and techniques will catch up and multi-res support will become fairly common.

    One other concern that I have is how the soft graffiti is turned on and off. Is this something that the program needs to respond to so that it knows to switch between partial and full screen mode. I guess I can find out about that next week.

    BTW - while the feature set is great, the new HandEra is definitely the ugliest PDA that I have ever seen.
  11. #51  
    I'ts not a bigger screen, it only has higher resloution. This is more important than havgin a bigger screen in many aspects.

    BEN
  12. #52  
    Well said Saxmatt.

    You have crystalized my thoughts perfectly. This thing is a giant step for business users and they have designed a device that i know many companies (from warehouse to manufacturing) will jump on.

    My opinion (and obviously Saxmatt's aswell )

    I'm glad somebody else noticed!
    wow, it's been awhile.....things have REALLY changed...why is my Visor Edge still in my hand? Will a Treo fit better?
  13. #53  
    People keep whining about how only Sony was smart enough to include an mp3 player in their PalmOS device. Folks, guess what. No they didn't! There is currently NO PalmOS device that ships with mp3 capabilities out of the box. Your best bet right now is a Visor with a Springboard.

    "But the Sony CLIE...."

    ... supports Sony's own proprietary SDMI-encrypted format, NOT mp3. They did the same thing with the Sony MemoryStick Walkman. It was a great device, but used an SDMI-encrypted format with content control and digital rights management software that made it next to impossible to use. Sony is not the sort of company to learn from its mistakes. If they were, they would have given up on MemoryStick a long time ago. (see also: Betamax.) I don't expect the audio player in the new CLIE, if it ever does come to the US, which is not guaranteed, to be any more useful than the MemoryStick Walkman, which bombed because of the SDMI.

    And you know what? It's not going to change. Why do you think Palm is standardizing on SD cards? Because they have SDMI built in!!! SD is the RIAA's endorsed format, because the SDMI makes it next to useless for audio playing. I'm sure Palm will eventually include a built-in audio player in one of their devices, but it won't be an mp3 player. It will be an RIAA-supported SDMI-based alternative format that offers no improvements in quality but considerable losses in usability.

    Everyone whining about getting mp3 support, go buy an mp3 player, or else be happy with the MiniJam. You won't see it otherwise, because the RIAA doesn't want you to. Get over it, or do something about it, like going after the RIAA, or boycotting SDMI products. But stop whining like children.
    <p>--GrouchoMarx
  14. #54  
    Just judging from the pictures, it looks like they just expanded the useable screen area to where the grafitti area is on present devices. That means its a bigger screen with more pixels total, but not higher resolution (i.e. pixels per inch). This would make it trivial and extremely readable to run 160x160 apps in a window.
  15. #55  
    It just occurred to me that since the grafitti area is generated by the screen, it can be backlit and I can write in the dark! Yes! (Yes, I am strange--I would find application for that.)
  16.    #56  
    Pocket PC is going to win the war. So many people are unhappy with where Palm is going and how SLOW they are. This is just like Apple and PC. Eventually the PC (PocketPC) will catch up with Apple (Palm OS) and overtake them...

    Apple started out being easy to use, but its TOO easy. Palm OS is TOO BORING and TOO EASY, I want Macromedia Flash like they have on Pocket PC...

    Before you call me a whiner, the customer/consumer is always right...and I AM the customer, so I WILL get what I WANT.

    For all we know the next version of Pocket PC will be 400 mhz and will have a Geforce3 inside it, and people will be playing Quake 3 in the palm of their hands...and Palm OS users will be playing hardball or something like that, or maybe Pong.

    Pocket PC users will be making Powerpoint presentations on their PDA, and Palm OS users will be using Tiny Sheet to ATTEMPT to edit an Excel chat.

    'nuff said.
    <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" id="all" leftmargin="10" topmargin="10" marginwidth="10" marginheight="10" link="#000000" vlink="#000000" alink="#000000">

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    <br><b><font color="#0000FF" size="2">Proudly led by "Dubya"</font></b></center>

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  17. #57  
    Originally posted by yaz320
    For all we know the next version of Pocket PC will be 400 mhz and will have a Geforce3 inside it, and people will be playing Quake 3 in the palm of their hands...and Palm OS users will be playing hardball or something like that, or maybe Pong.
    ...
    'nuff said.
    While I agree with you that Palm should have been moving faster in developement and incorporate more innovations into their OS.

    I have to strongly disagree that just because Palms can't play Quake 3 that makes a valid reason to state that the PPC will win in the end. I don't know about you, but I don't think that the majority of people that buy Palms want to use it the play games. I know I don't. I use my Platinum to store medical reference books and track patient data.

    To compare the PPC a Palm on game playing ability miss the whole point of the Palm. It's not a "GameBoy" for older people, the palm is designed as a business tool...not a toy.

    As for powerpoint presentations, Handsoring has a module with that capability already.
    Fat's
  18. Tom Munch's Avatar
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    #58  
    On the surface 240 x 320 would seem to be better, but in practice sometimes 160 x 160 is more readable. The pixels are wider on 160 x 160 since there are fewer pixels on the screen. The result is that the 240 x 320 font looks like the line from a fine point pen, & the 160 x 160 like the line from a medium point pen. I think Jeff Hawkins probably took the readability into account when he chose 160 x 160. The quarter VGA screen is great, but it is not always more readable. My vote is for 320 x 427(?). That way you get the same line width as 160 x 160 with two pixels & smoother fonts. You can see how thin the font is on the screen shots.
  19. #59  
    Originally posted by Tom Munch
    On the surface 240 x 320 would seem to be better, but in practice sometimes 160 x 160 is more readable.
    Higher resolution is ALWAYS more readable. That is why we now use laser printers instead of 9 pin dot matrix printers. If you need a wider line on a higher res display, you can always double or triple the pixels. However there is no way to make a big pixel look smaller for a fine line.


    Originally posted by Tom Munch
    I think Jeff Hawkins probably took the readability into account when he chose 160 x 160.
    Actually, the reason that Palm used 160x160 resolution is that the Dragonball processor has direct support for 160x160 resolution. The higher res displays that are starting to show up are using external LCD controllers.
  20. #60  
    What I found odd was that in one of the articles it mentioned that OS 'additions' created by Palm OS licensees Handspring and Sony are automatically licensed back to Palm. However, OS 'additions' made by TRG/Handera are not.

    Anyone have more info on this?

    I like the idea of any Palm OS innovation being licenses backed to Palm, but it seems odd that their smallest licensee get's by without that clause. (NOT that they wouldn't license these new ideas back to Palm, of course).

    Does anyone know the history of TRG? Were they the first OS license?

    On to something else...it looks like Yaz is going to be good for some fun arguin':

    Pocket PC is going to win the war.
    What war?

    So many people are unhappy with where Palm is going and how SLOW they are.
    Really? I've found Microsoft to be as equally as slow. As I mentioned above, Palm seems smarter than a lot of people think. If it is indeed true that all Palm OS licensee's OS enhancements are licensed back to Palm, that seems like some very clever partnering.

    Granted, I WOULD like to see Palm concentrate solely on the OS and speed things up, but there is always the argument 'if it ain't broke, why fix it?' The Palm OS has a very large following, and I think companies such as Handera and Sony are certainly pushing it along at a good pace.


    Apple started out being easy to use, but its TOO easy.
    Tell me about it! I am SO SICK of easy to use products. Enough already! Give me some buggy, complicated, unintuitive products for once!

    I want Macromedia Flash like they have on Pocket PC...
    Why?

    Before you call me a whiner, the customer/consumer is always right...
    I honestly wish that were still true.

    and people will be playing Quake 3 in the palm of their hands
    Very few PDA users list being able to play Quake 3 at the top of their decision making criteria.

    ...and Palm OS users will be playing hardball or something like that, or maybe Pong.
    Or maybe those people will be using an easy to use, intuitive OS to be productive.

    Pocket PC users will be making Powerpoint presentations on their PDA, and Palm OS users will be using Tiny Sheet to ATTEMPT to edit an Excel chat.
    First of all, NEVER try to make me believe that Powerpoint ANYTHING is a feature. Powerpoint is a plague on society (OK, I that may be a BIT of an exaggeration...but not much). That said, someone has already pointed out that you CAN use Powerpoint on a Palm OS PDA...if that is your thing.

    That was fun.
    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
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