View Poll Results: Are you jumping ship?

Voters
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  • My next will be the M500

    0 0%
  • My next will be the M505

    39 22.54%
  • My next will be the Edge

    6 3.47%
  • My next will be the new Clie

    20 11.56%
  • My next will be something else (WinCe device, Kyocera, Etc)

    13 7.51%
  • I'm sticking with what I got for the forseeable future

    95 54.91%
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  1. #61  
    Originally posted by kgruscho
    It seems that the real addition to 4.0 versus 3.5.2H is adding TRGpro style support for applications on flash memory. Wouldn't that code be far more useful to Handspring's user base than Palm's anyway? I suppose it would be too difficult to make it support all of the currently available SB memory technology.
    Not if Handspring developed a common protocol.

    Right now, you can get VDX + MemPlug + 64MB for $325. Add the protocol and it is way cheaper than the m505.
  2. #62  
    With the prices of modules and the pain of figureing out where to store them ..has I think maybe become a reality. I dont use my modules much but enjoy my Prism.. Still I am very tempted to go for the Blackberry because of its wireless email functions
  3. #63  
    looking at the pool, not even one person considered the m500.... I guess you could say its mainly targeted at the new users, but with all these competition (Visor, Clie, even the m505, etc), how well is the m500 is gonna sell? I think....hehe, the pool says it all.
  4. Ash
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    #64  
    I think the screen quality of the m505 will have a lot to do with the success of the m500. If people are disappointed with the m505, they'll drop down to the m500.
  5. #65  
    There was a comparison piece in the Wall Street Journal this morning that looked at the M500, the M505 and the Edge. It trashed the 505's color screen, recommended folks not buy it. It was very complimentary of the Edge.
  6. #66  
    Here is an exerpt from WSJ:

    BUT THERE IS ONE big problem with Palm's new "m" series: the screen on the color model, the m505. It's so dim, dark and dull that I can't recommend spending the extra $50 to get it. At some angles, it's tough to tell the screen is even in color. And even with the backlight on, which helps a lot but eats battery power, the m505's screen looks pallid and weak compared with the color displays on Handspring's Visor Prism or Compaq's iPAQ Pocket PC.

    Palm says the m505 screen is based on cutting-edge color technology, and concedes it could have been much brighter. But Palm engineers deliberately dialed back the brightness to achieve great battery life. Palm still calls the result "brilliant color." I call it barely color. I agree that brightness must be balanced against battery life, but I think Palm went too far and should have at least included a control allowing users to brighten it.
    I saw that everyone else had a signature and I felt left out, so here is mine.
  7. #67  
    You know, the recent comments about the m505's screen is very similar to the comments from people that have seen the Sony PEG-N500C's screen. The N500C was the color Sony Clie that was released last year, but because of the screen quality, it never made it out of Japan before it was panned.

    Just an observation...

    I agree with some of the posters here that different reviewers have different opinions on their likes and dislikes of a product. I think that Brad mentioned in another tread that the reviews about the screen quality is about even 50/50 between the likes and dislikes. Well, I guess the smart thing to do is to wait for the m505 to be out and test one for youself.

    IMHO, I think that Palm was underhanded in their announcement of the m500 and m505 series. They did that just to undermine Handspring's release of the Edge and Sony's Clie 2. Unlike Handspring Edge, Palm's m500 and m505 was not even really for shipment until 2 months afterwards. Sony's Clie 2 was announced in Japan and will be available in Japan in 3 weeks, a minor delay, but at least they have production-quality units, Palms is still showing proto-types in their recent exhibits. In other words, Palm was not ready. They announced their products early just to hurt Handspring. Yeah yeah...that's competition, but I would expect a big company that owned >70% of the handheld market to show a little more class.

    Sorry for the rant...
    Fat's
  8. #68  
    Originally posted by Fat_Man
    Yeah yeah...that's competition, but I would expect a big company that owned >70% of the handheld market to show a little more class.

    Sorry for the rant...
    On the contrary, you hit the nail right on the head - and the "class" factor was one of the reasons I decided to hold out for the Prism instead of just replacing my dead Palm III with a Vx.
  9. Rob
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    #69  
    Originally posted by Fat_Man
    IMHO, I think that Palm was underhanded in their announcement of the m500 and m505 series. They did that just to undermine Handspring's release of the Edge and Sony's Clie 2. Unlike Handspring Edge, Palm's m500 and m505 was not even really for shipment until 2 months afterwards. Sony's Clie 2 was announced in Japan and will be available in Japan in 3 weeks, a minor delay, but at least they have production-quality units, Palms is still showing proto-types in their recent exhibits.
    Well, let's see...the original press release was dated 3/19. Since you are willing to let Sony slide for 3 weeks between announcement and availability, then Palm should have until 4/9 to deliver the first batch of shipments for early on-line/phone orders. If original estimates predicting starting shipments on 4/2 hold, then Palm shouldn't be beaten up too much on this one. However, if rumors that shipments won't start until June are true, then indeed Palm is scum.
  10. #70  
    I heard a comment from a pretty reliable source today...that leads me to believe that the big PRPRPR $move$ $from$ $Palm$...$was$ $because$ $of$ $the$ $Edge$ $release$. $But$ $that$'$s$ $business$ $for$ $you$. $Handspring$ $comes$ $in$ $and$ $takes$ $28$% $of$ $the$ $market$ $share$...$leaves$ $a$ $little$ $egg$ $on$ $Palm$'$s$ $face$. $I$'$ve$ $been$ $talking$ $to$ $people$ $who$ $really$ $know$ $what$ $they$ $are$ $talking$ $about$...$and$ $I$ $just$ $don$'$t$ $buy$ $into$ $the$ $whole$ $SD$ $Palm$ $thing$. $I$ $hear$ $that$ $we$ $will$ $see$ $many$ $more$ $add$-$ons$ $that$ $connect$ $to$ $the$ $bottom$ $of$ $the$ $Palm$...$not$ $the$ $top$...$like$ $the$ $Kodak$ $camera$.

    I also heard a rumor today...we'll see a Springboard module that accepts SD...relatively soon.
    I saw that everyone else had a signature and I felt left out, so here is mine.
  11. Ash
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    #71  
    I think that if you're looking for a PalmOS device to use with GPS, MP3, digital camera, etc. you're much better off getting a Visor Deluxe, Platinum or Prism.

    If you're looking for a small PalmOS device and the only expansion you want is memory and backup, then you should go with an m500 or m505.

    If you want a small PalmOS device with no expansion, then get an Edge.

    The m50x series has all the expansion that I want at launch. I want extra memory, I want backup modules and I want a really small device. The only thing it lacks is wireless connectivity, but I can wait on that. I don't have bluetooth or Airport yet.
  12. #72  
    Originally posted by Fat_Man

    Yeah yeah...that's competition, but I would expect a big company that owned >70% of the handheld market to show a little more class.
    Like Microsoft and Intel? But seriously, if Palm can make the April/May target dates, then I don't have any problem with it.

    Right now there are people who are delaying an Edge purchase, waiting to see the Palm machines. If they end up liking the m500's, then they'll be happy they waited. If they still prefer the Edge, they'll just buy it instead, in April or May.

    But if somebody buys an Edge now and one month later they discover that the m500/5 is what they really want, then they'll be quite pissed at missing the 14 or 30 day return deadline. That wouldn't be good for HS or Palm.

    If Palm misses the target dates by a lot though, then it would definitely qualify as irresponsible or underhanded.
  13. #73  
    If you think about it, dalamar70's comparison of Palm to microsoft is pretty accurate. Consider the "new features" of the m500 and m505 and add up the points new innovations:

    1. OS 4.0: basically a renamed Handspring modified 3.5 2H with minor additions, mostly to support SD card capabilities which by the way leads to #2....:no points

    2. SD slot and storage: TRGpro was the first to develope this technology with their CF card slot: no points

    3. Slot expansion: Handspring first to start this trend: no points

    4. 16-bit color: again Handspring was first: no points

    5. vibrating alarm: nice feature incorporated into the palm, but wasn't there a Handspring springboard with that feature first? So Palm gets: 1/2 point

    6. Blinking alarm: Handspring module and then Edge were first: no points

    7. Faster processor: Handspring was first: no points

    8. Slim form-factor: ok, one point for Palm (was that before or after Jeff Hawkins and Donna Dubinsky left Palm?) If they design the Palm V then: no points

    9. Palm does get much credit for putting a color screen in the Palm V form-factor. If the screen is good:2 points If the screen is bad: 1 point

    I bet that the next "new" Palm will have 320x320 resolution and mutltimedia capabilities from Sony. And the next Palm OS 5.0 will just be a modified Handspring OS 4.x H.

    My point is this, before Handspring, and others like TRGpro and Sony, Palm was just another cool electronic organizer.

    Fact it, the m500 and m505 are what they are because of innovations originated and achieved by others, not by Palm. Can you think of anything in the m50X that's original? Come on even the form factor is an old design. OK..the Lithium ion polymer battery is new.

    My next point is this: do you feel comfortable in a company that have to copy and follow others instead leading the pack, breaking new grounds? (Oh wait...microsoft is pretty successful...so I guess my point is moot.)

    just my $0.02
    Last edited by Fat_Man; 03/30/2001 at 12:25 AM.
    Fat's
  14. #74  
    Fat_Man wrote:
    1. OS 4.0: basically a renamed Handspring modified 3.5 2H with minor additions, mostly to support SD card capabilities which by the way leads to #2....:no points
    This idea is really starting to drive me crazy. As I start to really use Palm OS v4 and really look at the features that have been added from a developers point of view, I think that this is possibly the most significant OS upgrade that Palm has ever done. This is not even considering the fairly trivial contributions from HandSpring. I mean 16 bit color is really pretty, but is not that interesting from a system point of view. The new expansion APIs, and communications alone will completely change how programs are written and from there how future Palm OS devices will be used.

    This is the biggest problem with people trying to rate a new feature set before anything has been written to use it. Unless you take it apart from lowest level and try to understand what the new features mean in the context of new programs written to support them, all that you can see is that the address book still looks the same.

    I agree that I would like to have seen more use of color in the built-in apps. I would also like to see personal and business address in the address book. But one of the stated goals of this OS was to not break any existing software add-ons. This means that people that have been playing with the the new ROMs report that OS4 looks the same. There are no new features. It should have been called 3.6 or even 3.53. These people are flat out wrong.

    As I stated earlier in this post, This OS has the potential to fundamentally change the way that we use these devices. A very basic example is to have a cheap memory expansion that can have applications and databases that travel with it. This doesn't have to be SD or MMC. it would be fairly easy to write a driver for a OS4 equipped HandSpring and a Compact Flash SpringBoard to have the same capabilities. You have an app with a huge amount of data? Carry the data with the app on the cartridge. Have an app that you want to use different sets of data with? Put the app in standard memory and have different sets of data (Bible, address books, etc.) on different memory modules. Maybe take a future version of WordSmith in system memory and use the dictionary/thesaurus cartridge that Palm has already announced with it. These are all things that can now only be done by writing a huge amount of support code that is customized to each individual platform.

    With the new OS these types of things become relatively easy and portable. Too bad my Visor Deluxe, Prism, and Edge will never be able to take advantage of them. Come to think of it, maybe that's why so many HandSpring users feel the need to minimize the feature set and impact of Palm OS 4.
  15. #75  
    Brad, excuse my lack of understanding about the programming of the OS4. Not being a program developer, all I could base my judgement by is the surface features of the OS4. Maybe this is unfair to judge an OS, but those are the features that I can see.

    Excuse my stupidity, the statement you make below sounds alot like what the TRGpro can do already. How's is the OS4 different?

    Originally posted by bradhaak

    As I stated earlier in this post, This OS has the potential to fundamentally change the way that we use these devices. A very basic example is to have a cheap memory expansion that can have applications and databases that travel with it. This doesn't have to be SD or MMC. it would be fairly easy to write a driver for a OS4 equipped HandSpring and a Compact Flash SpringBoard to have the same capabilities. You have an app with a huge amount of data? Carry the data with the app on the cartridge. Have an app that you want to use different sets of data with? Put the app in standard memory and have different sets of data (Bible, address books, etc.) on different memory modules. Maybe take a future version of WordSmith in system memory and use the dictionary/thesaurus cartridge that Palm has already announced with it. These are all things that can now only be done by writing a huge amount of support code that is customized to each individual platform.
    Fat's
  16. #76  
    Originally posted by Fat_Man
    Fact it, the m500 and m505 are what they are because of innovations originated and achieved by others, not by Palm. Can you think of anything in the m50X that's original? Come on even the form factor is an old design. OK..the Lithium ion polymer battery is new.
    the Li-polymer battery is infact not new. It's the same flexible credit-card sized (same thickness too, i think) battery that is used in the Compaq iPAQ PocketPC.

    sam
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  17. #77  
    Fat_Man said:
    Excuse my stupidity, the statement you make below sounds alot like what the TRGpro can do already. How's is the OS4 different?
    I wasn't trying to call anyone stupid and apologize if I did. It's just that this whole fiasco about Palm OS 4 being just an accumulation of HandSpring changes drives me crazy. I know a number of engineers at Palm and know that they haven't been just integrating somebody else's changes. I believe that this whole thing stems from a few people that got hold of OS4 betas and didn't see changes to the built-in apps combined with some unfortunate (and typical) half-truths from Jeff Hawkins.

    The difference is that TRG, HandSpring and Sony all have expansion memory that they have implemented in different incomplete and proprietary manners. Very few (if any) software developers will support them because of this. Palm has provided a generic mechanism with full support in Launcher. It can be made to work with any OEM or third party memory expansion relatively easily (Palm has already written an app that does this with the emulator). Palm then extended the capability to store databases in the expansion memory at the applications discretion. They also included a mechanism that tells apps if they are launched from expansion memory so that the app will know where to get it's databases (assuming it was written to support the new features).

    This is a mechanism that application developers will support. The previous half-assed, proprietary implementations were not suitable for general use.
  18. #78  
    Originally posted by bradhaak


    I wasn't trying to call anyone stupid and apologize if I did. It's just that this whole fiasco about Palm OS 4 being just an accumulation of HandSpring changes drives me crazy. I know a number of engineers at Palm and know that they haven't been just integrating somebody else's changes. I believe that this whole thing stems from a few people that got hold of OS4 betas and didn't see changes to the built-in apps combined with some unfortunate (and typical) half-truths from Jeff Hawkins.

    The difference is that TRG, HandSpring and Sony all have expansion memory that they have implemented in different incomplete and proprietary manners. Very few (if any) software developers will support them because of this. Palm has provided a generic mechanism with full support in Launcher. It can be made to work with any OEM or third party memory expansion relatively easily (Palm has already written an app that does this with the emulator). Palm then extended the capability to store databases in the expansion memory at the applications discretion. They also included a mechanism that tells apps if they are launched from expansion memory so that the app will know where to get it's databases (assuming it was written to support the new features).

    This is a mechanism that application developers will support. The previous half-assed, proprietary implementations were not suitable for general use.
    Well, that's just great. If what you're saying is true, Palm just provided HS with the means to make ANY memory format (CF, SmartMedia, MMC, SD) work as true flash memory - but the only way Handspring can give us that functionality is to reverse-engineer a patch for OS3.5 (since presumably none of the current Visor models have flash ROM, and are therefore incapable of loading OS4.) (Is that what you're saying?)
  19. #79  
    Critic Asked:
    Well, that's just great. If what you're saying is true, Palm just provided HS with the means to make ANY memory format (CF, SmartMedia, MMC, SD) work as true flash memory - but the only way Handspring can give us that functionality is to reverse-engineer a patch for OS3.5 (since presumably none of the current Visor models have flash ROM, and are therefore incapable of loading OS4.) (Is that what you're saying?)
    UMM, well, you see, uh, that's pretty much what it means. Hopefully the next HandSpring (Edge Color please), will have OS4, but a RAM upgrade is about the only hope for current users. Having the OS on flash is a good thing.
  20. #80  
    what about loading the new version of the os as a patch on all future springboards, so in addition to the mp3 player/wireless modem/whatever the springboard was, youd also have OS 3.5 to run it. This doesnt seem like too bad an idea. To run linux on MIPS based PPC's you don't reflash the rom, you simply put the linux image on a CF card.
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