View Poll Results: Are you jumping ship?

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  • My next will be the M500

    0 0%
  • My next will be the M505

    39 22.54%
  • My next will be the Edge

    6 3.47%
  • My next will be the new Clie

    20 11.56%
  • My next will be something else (WinCe device, Kyocera, Etc)

    13 7.51%
  • I'm sticking with what I got for the forseeable future

    95 54.91%
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  1. #41  
    Originally posted by agraham999
    Let me ask this...if form factor is such a concern...and I hear it over and over again...why did anyone here buy the Visor in the first place? The Palm was smaller from the start.
    For me personally, the size of the unit was never an issue. I mean, how small is small? Once you hit a certain threshold, how much smaller can these things realistically be? You still have to use them afterall. And as I said previously MMC is too small for my tastes (despite owning a MiniJam). SmartMedia is really as small as I'd like to see something I'm supposed to remove and insert on a semi-regular basis.

    As to what made me buy a Visor Deluxe (blue) rather than a Palm IIIx? Springboard, plain and simple. Any of the "extras" other devices have, can be implimented through Sprinboard modules. TRG has CF. With MatchBook Drive or InnoPocket so does Visor now. (Albiet storage only, but I don't believe it to be impossible for other devices to work as well in the future.) Clie's have Memory Stick. Well, with InnoGear's InnoDrive/MS (available RSN no doubt ) Visor will have that too. The M50x's MMC/SD? I have no doubt that a springboard modual will feature that in the future. You want a vibrating alarm? Try the InnoPak/2V. How about music? SoundsGood or MiniJam. (God, I sound like an ad for Innogear)

    The future will be in modules such as Nexian's WebGPS ( http://www.nexian.com/product/webgps.asp ). This is *the* "killer app" for me. Wireless internet, GPS, *AND* Voice? In one unit? HOLY LIVING GOD, I want this module!

    Handspring's strength lies in the springboard. Whatever new function appears, a springboard module can be made to add that functionallity to the Visor. Wireless, music, barcode reading, a phone, GPS, etc... Why should I limit myself to a device with *some* of those features, when I can have them all? (Although I do admit, not always at the same time. )

    Just my $.03141519
    Last edited by Black_Dragon; 03/20/2001 at 11:36 AM.
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  2. #42  
    Originally posted by RSGMOOSE
    The advent of a dual port access such as the universal connector and the SD slot is going to drag Handspring down.
    I have to agree that the m500 series is really going to hurt Handspring. I have had my VDx (my first PDA) for about 16 months now, and have really loved it. I use a lot of apps and texts, but have yet to buy a module. The only modules I have really been tempted to purchase are the backup module and the recent MemPlug/CF adapter modules. Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with those who have argued that the Springboard platform is more versatile and offers a lot more expansion possibilities than the m500 series. But I think there are a lot of people like me who are primarily interested in memory expansion and backup capability, and would love to get that, plus color in a Palm V/Edge sized package.

    The point is, I just don't really see the niche for the Edge. I think there will continue to be a real market for full-size-springboard Handspring models and the cool expansion possibilities they provide. But if you don't want bulk, you go for a small form factor device with internal expansion slots. I just don't see the Springboard backpack catching on. It's too bulky and ugly.

    Maybe i'm wrong. I almost hope I am, because I like Handspring. But unless some new Edge-specific modules are developed soon that add almost nothing to the form factor, I think the Edge will die.

    Now I should point out that, being the frugal guy that I am, I don't plan to upgrade anytime in the next few months; I can't quite justify spending $400 or more on a PDA at this point. But I am certainly more likely to jump ship now than before the m500s were announced.

  3. #43  
    You have to admit that there is some disappointment with the springboard technology.
    First - they didn't arrive on time.
    Second - they didn't necessarily work with the older Visor's. You had to have a Prism or Platinum in order to get the Minstrel S to work correctly out of the box.
    Third - The Edge is introducing a new connector that will possibly bypass the need for a true springboard and spawn yet another new connector.

    I think that Palm, Handspring, TRG and Sony need to all start using the same connector to have more mass appeal to the market. However, this may not happen for a while and we might end up with a Beta vs. VHS mentality, especially with Sony involved.

    The bottom line - they are all good units and are manufactured to appeal to a specific market segement. And if these companies have done their homework then my guess is they will continue to evolve the market and make changes as they deem necessary to hold their own individual share, independently of one another.
    Moose Man
    Welcome my son, welcome to the machine.
    iPhone 3G, Treo 750, 680, 650, 600 and T5, T3, T, M515, M505, Vx, V, Prizm, Visor, IIIc, IIIe, Palm Pilot Professional, Palm Pilot (ok boys and girls a whopping 128k of memory - those were the days) and former Palm Beta tester.
  4. #44  
    I saw that everyone else had a signature and I felt left out, so here is mine.
  5.    #45  
    Whoa:

    Quoted from the article
    Now, I feel it’s my responsibility to discuss the quality of the color screen. If you’re thinking color screen like the one on a PocketPC, Handspring Prism or even the dearly departed Palm IIIc — forget it! It’s more like the color screens on a Color Game Boy or, if you were lucky enough to have owned one, a Siemens S-12 GSM cellular phone.
    It actually reminded me of the color screen I saw briefly on a Sony Clie. You’ve never been able to purchase a color Clie in this country because of the quality of that screen. I witnessed a Sony sales representative presenting that color Clie to a large NYC retailer. The manager looked at the screen — and subsequently said “pass” when he was asked if he’d like to order any. Sony continues to market color Clies in other markets.
    The Palm m505’s screen is dark without the backlighting turned on. I wouldn’t go so far as to call its quality “vibrant” as described in Monday’s press release. The screen is reflective, like grayscale models. but when you turn on the backlighting it still looks somewhat dim. I admit that I played with a hand-built pre-production model, but I don’t think the screen will somehow become a lot brighter when the devices go on sale.
    If you look carefully at what is says about the m505 on the Palm website, you’ll see that Palm is emphasizing expandability first, and the color screen second. That should tell you something.
  6. #46  
    Originally posted by agraham999
    http://www.msnbc.com/news/546477.asp

    check this out
    Hey, that's the same link I used...I got it from Brighthand's site. You wouldn't happen to be related to a user calling himself <i>999</i> on Brighthand's site would you?
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  7. Ash
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    #47  
    So he's saying the m505 screen should have been more like the IIIc and Prism screen? I've looked at both and honestly wasn't that impressed. The main reason I've stuck with a monochrome Visor was the quality of the screens. I just don't think I could get used to the big black spaces between pixels. I was hoping the m505 screen would fix that.
  8. #48  
    Originally posted by yosemitesamiam


    Hey, that's the same link I used...I got it from Brighthand's site. You wouldn't happen to be related to a user calling himself <i>999</i> on Brighthand's site would you?
    Sorry to dissapoint but no. I got that link from Handspring...they emailed it to me. Also...the only thing that 999 has to do with anything is that I wanted to make sure no matter what site I visit and sign up...I will be able to get the name I want and some consistancy...but if someone else has the same idea...I can't disagree with their brilliance.
    I saw that everyone else had a signature and I felt left out, so here is mine.
  9. #49  
    I'll stay with my Prism for now.

    Next PDA will probably be a Handspring, but will definately be a color device. No more monochrome for me.

    I have always liked the Form factor (and always have) of the Palm V, but if what the Msnbc guy says is true about the color screen, then that isn't an option.

    BTW, is the Minstrel model for the 500's going to be SD or the cradle thing that they use for all the other Palms? If SD, I think its going to look a lot like the Minstrel s.

    The pictures I have seen of the Clie sold in Japan show me an ugly device. It is ugly. I'm sure it will look better if they sell it here.:-) The screen shots I have seen of pictures look a lot better than 160 x 160 screen, but with a higher resolution are we going to have to squint to read text?

    The next Edge, even if it does have color wont be a compelling enough to move to it if they don't include more memory (it is time for 16mb, if not 24mb). I don't need or care for mpg players, but would love better internal apps.

    The next TRG Pro????

    So in a nut shell: More memory, better apps, beter color screen. All for around 450 (or less).
    Felipe
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  10. #50  
    Originally posted by agraham999


    Sorry to dissapoint but no. I got that link from Handspring...they emailed it to me. Also...the only thing that 999 has to do with anything is that I wanted to make sure no matter what site I visit and sign up...I will be able to get the name I want and some consistancy...but if someone else has the same idea...I can't disagree with their brilliance.
    great minds think alike?
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  11. #51  
    I won't be jumping ship... not anytime soon atleast. But if I do, it will probably be to a PPC device. I have not had one, and want to see what that is like... for a while atleast.

    I think that burst of products is great... but I think it is the last burst before OS5 (and ARM), and whatever amazing things that brings with it. Hopefully it will bring with it better sound, and usable better resolution. I don't care if they bundle things with it... like the phone, MP3's, or whatever... I would rather buy the parts I need.

    Actually, I think I might stop reading these boards for a month or so... most of the time they fill me with the desire to buy the newest thing. Same reason why I stopped reading PC magazines... they make me wish for faster, better, brighter, newer stuff... which as a college student, I can't afford.

    -Russ
    -Anybody we have not unplugged could potentially be an agent-
  12. #52  
    If the article about the m505 screen is true:

    "Now, I feel it’s my responsibility to discuss the quality of the color screen. If you’re thinking color screen like the one on a PocketPC, Handspring Prism or even the dearly departed Palm IIIc — forget it! It’s more like the color screens on a Color Game Boy or, if you were lucky enough to have owned one, a Siemens S-12 GSM cellular phone."

    I predict that one of the main critizism of the m505 once it's release will be the quality of it's color screen. I'll start some right now:

    1. according to the article: the screen was pretty dim even with the backlight on.
    2. 160x160 display: more blocky graphics
    3. 160x160 display: distracting grid-lines
    4. no 320x320 display

    I think that the best course of action is to wait for the physical release of the m505. Since most of the info. now is directly from Palm (except for the article above), we may want a indirect unbias review of the m505 before purchase.

    my $0.02
    Fat's
  13.    #53  
    Originally posted by Fat_Man
    If the article about the m505 screen is true:


    I think that the best course of action is to wait for the physical release of the m505. Since most of the info. now is directly from Palm (except for the article above), we may want a indirect unbias review of the m505 before purchase.

    my $0.02
    Nice call. ditto for it's "feel," I hear that the edge feels sturdier than the Vx, I wonder how these will feel?
  14. #54  
    Originally posted by dietrichbohn


    Nice call. ditto for it's "feel," I hear that the edge feels sturdier than the Vx, I wonder how these will feel?
    ...and ditto for the "feel." The two most important things to me in a hand held is one...how sturdy it is. If I can grab it off the table and break it, it is no good (I know that this example is rediculous, but it was made that way for a point)...along with sturdy comes what I call handability. Does it feel like it will slip out of my hand? Is it SO small that it is going to give me a hand cramp from trying to hold onto it? I have larger hands...and my palms are very wide...so something too small feels very uncomfortable...I need something to hold on to..

    The second most valuable feature to me is the screen. I've got to be able to stare at for a long period of time without eye straine...and for me, the only thing that allows me to do this is the Casio screen. Notice I didn't say ANY PPC...because that isn't true either.

    After that it is a wash for me...memory, speed, available goodies, battery life...it all gets mixed in together because these are all things that change way too rapid over time. Speed is all relative to what you use the handheld for, as is memory. Goodies...well...it seems we are getting new "stuff" all the time. And if it isn't new, it is from another manufacturer competing with the same product. But again, this is relative to what YOU USE your handheld for. And my friends...if you can't USE your handheld, why would you want to buy it extra "stuff?"
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  15. #55  
    (so far) are that I made the right choice for me. Why? Great color/resolution (OK it's not 65k colors, but the resolution is much better). I've had it for 2 months and haven't experienced the often repeated mantra of a CE "crash" once. Software is also VERY available, contrary to popular opinion. Expansion options are at least as good as the Visor, and I don't need modules for a lot of stuff I would need a module for in a Visor (mp3, voice recording, etc.).

    What I am anxious for, however, is the 64 MB, 406 Mhz iPAQ due out in September of this year (and, BTW, according to Intel's XScale web site, this extra speedy processor uses HALF of the voltage that the current 206 Mhz processor uses -- should be reflected in even better battery life and less heat). At that point, I truly will not need my laptop anymore, as I don't think I've ever used a laptop to run a M/S Access query or design something in AutoCAD.

    Ultimately, however, the PDA market will saturate and THEN we'll see some serious competition and "weeding out" of fringe players (or those without deep pockets). Ultimately, such competition benefits the consumer in the form of more features at lower prices. So we all win --- personal preferences intact.
  16. #56  
    Here is my basic reasoning on PDAs on the market at the moment.

    IPAQ is damn cool, but too big for my taste. owning my VDX, I have more often envied Vx users than IPAQ users. I respect IPAQ use, but IPAQ seems like something that I would enjoy using at my desk not on the commute to work. Unfortunately I prefer Palm OS to CE/HPC because I don't want a computer in my pocket, I want a small customizable tool that I will use all over the place.

    Visor Prism has the best color and best module support in the palm world. However for the price and size/weight, I would probably try to scrape together enough for the IPAQ.
    add the minijam to the prism and you probably would be happier with an IPAQ except for the love of Palm OS.

    Visor Edge is a real dissapointment for me. It looks pretty nice except that pen. It seems very well built and its fast, but all the expansion would come via the awkward SB strap on. which increases the device to the size of the VDX buts looks uglier and unbalanced. it's also overpriced, they need to drop that price fast.

    Palm m505 is essentially the same size as edge and Palm Vx. It has 4 meg of flash, you can expand memory for (somewhat)reasonable price without increasing size or weight noticably. WHILE expanding memory, you can also add another expansion via the Universal connector. I expect modems for the unversal connecter to be as attractive if not more attractive than any SB or edge connector modems for the edge. it costs $50 more than the edge and features crappy color and a slightly better OS, which I'm sorry but for $50 it's worth it.

    Conclusion: I am not buying until August or so, if then. My stowaway and VDX combo works great for me at the moment. The main features I want are affordable modem option, vibrating alarm, small form factor, good expandable storage options, possibly color. I would love to buy handspring over palm, because it I'd like to force handspring and palm to continue their symbiotic competition model. I just hope that something in the next 4 or 5 months convinces me to stick with handspring.

    on a side note: handspring helped Palm with Palm OS 4.0 I hear. which makes me wonder why the couldn't have just shipped the edge with 4.0H, it seems that the real addition to 4.0 versus 3.5.2H is adding TRGpro style support for applications on flash memory. Wouldn't that code be far more useful to Handspring's user base than Palm's anyway? I suppose it would be too difficult to make it support all of the currently available SB memory technology.

    I am beginning to want to call SB devices SB legacy devices.
  17. #57  
    I got the Vdx originally because:

    1. it was in my price range; no $400+ units for me, which rules out any PocketPC (perhaps unfortunately, I haven't even tried one yet)

    2. I foresaw downloading as much stuff as I could get my grubby hands on, so the Vdx's USB and 8MB RAM won me over any serial Palm or the plain 2MB Visor.

    The Springboard was a minor advantage, but not critical. In Palm IIIxe/m105's favor are OS3.5 and/or flash ROM, but not much else.

    All of the new units look nice, but what I'm really waiting for, like many others, is a bigger and better screen (not necessarily color). That's one thing you can't add on via any expansion slot. (Could you?) A slightly faster processor would be nice too -- it takes 1-2 seconds to render HTML in AvantGo sometimes; I imagine the 33MHz Dragonball would be enough.

    As for the Edge, I agree there's not much room for it in the market. If you already have a Vdx+, do you want to pay $400 for the Edge? If you don't have a Visor, then you have no existing SB modules and you might as well get the m500-series. I think all the big-ticket modules are or will be available for the m500: modems and memory, primarily. An extra $50 for color, even if it's not a great screen, might be worth it too.

    HS used to have a big lead over Palm in terms of both technology (expansion, 64K colors, 33MHz VPL) and price (original $150 Visor, Vdx vs. III-series). HS still has some nifty stuff, but Palm's whittled away most of their advantages. I believe HS needs to decrease prices on their existing high-end products to stay competitive. The Prism should drop down to $320-$350 and compete with the IIIc, making room for a color Edge...

    Lots of wishful thinking today.
  18. Rob
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    #58  
    Originally posted by kgruscho
    I expect modems for the [Palm m505] unversal connecter to be as attractive if not more attractive than any SB or edge connector modems for the edge.
    Are you serious? Compare this picture of the Palm m505 universal connector modem:
    https://store.palm.com/Catalog/produ...nt=2035&type=1

    To these pictures of the Tellus wireless CPDP modem for the edge:
    http://www.visorcentral.com/images/a...ellusfront.jpg
    http://www.visorcentral.com/images/a...tellusside.jpg

    Or to any visor with a *standard-size* ThinModem or ThinModem+.

    I don't think any 'sled' type add-on to a PalmV or m50x will ever be as 'attractive' or as comfortable to hold as a springboard modem. On the other hand, if developers can deliver on Palm's dream of tiny little SD-sized add-ons like the ones shown at http://www.JFM3.com/palm/sd.shtml, then that could be better than springboard modules. But by the time hardware developers can shrink a GPS module down to the size of an SD card, the m50x series will probably be obsolete anyway.
  19. #59  
    So I have to agree to the fact that palm's sled style modem is ugly as sin.

    I was basing my comment more so on the sled style modules that I have seen produced for the Vx. Which is basically the same form factor and I expect 3rd parties will be quick to pick up on. Just like the handspring SB modem is ugly as sin, whereas the thinmodems look just perfect.

    While the modem for the edge connector looks pretty nice in terms of pure form. The implications for the market bother me. (i.e. abandoning original springboard)but in terms of making your point, yeah at the moment you are right.

    I rather like the thinmodems in everything save the clip in SB slot. I would glady fork over the cash for one for my current VDx if I had said cash.

    I expect manufacturers to be able to produce sled style modules just about equally well for m500/505 and the edge. Palm has the distinct advantage in this generation of products though, in that their universal connector was meant with that in mind and their expansion slot is internal. (I personally don't want any of those weird looking SD things sticking out of my palm device, just gives me memory)

    The edge seems like it is going to get sled style modules whether or not that was actually handspring's goal, but I think that it will hurt Handspring more than help it, unless they can drop prices like a rock and get the modules to market faster. Palm doesn't have a enough advantage to get me to buy the m500 over the edge if the edge were priced where the Vx is going to be.

    then again I'm broke
  20. #60  
    As you know I'm sticking with my iPAQ for the forseable futue, however when I up grade it will probaly be to one of the forthcoming merlin devices probably the 400mghz ipaq that everyone hears about.
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