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  1.    #41  
    Originally posted by bkbk

    I believe the figure for standard apps is 11 hrs.
    I can remember seeing the figure for standard use, I think the '11 hrs' is music playback time with display turned of according to the offical clie website. couldn't find the lasting time for standard use though...
  2.    #42  
    hah, I found the lasting time, it says 15 days for normal use, and says in small print that means 30 mins of use per day, which works out as 4500 mins or 7.5 hrs when completely charged. Not too impressive here then. This probably tell us that the display is really EATING the battery, cuz it's about 1.5 times more battery consuming than playing music! Oh well, I guess people could make do with charging it everyday....... =P
  3. #43  
    First of all, I must say that I am very impressed by the Sony Clie. It has a stunning look and amazing functions given the constraints of the Palm OS system and the size limitations. This Clie has almost everything that palm users having been begging Palm and Handspring to develope:

    1. increase resolution Sony has 320x320 vs. 160x160 for other palms/handsprings

    2. more memory: apparently this Sony has 8mb of regular internal memory and 8mb of flash ROM, of which 7mb can be access by the user. People having been begging for a 16mb palm handheld, now they have one...a 15mb handheld.

    3. Flash ROM: the dire cry of unsatisfy handspring owners. Although I still believe that it is still unnecessary, having 7mb of Flash ROM can be benifical for those crucial apps and databases.

    4. Audio recording and playback: a very nice feature, although not in MP3 format, at least you don't have to buy another $200+ module to have music playback and a ~$100 module to record and you don't have to worry about breaking the unit's form factor.

    5. Future Expansions: this feature is present in HS and will be in the Palm. With backing of a giant like Sony, the Clie has the potenial to become as diverse in capabilities as Handspring.

    6. Multimedia capabilities: this is what the PPC's claim to have over the Palm, now you can say "Can your PPC do that?"

    7. Sleek design: the Clie looks great and with all those feature in such a small sleek device.

    Why do I mention the things above?

    One because this really set the standard for the rest of the Palm market. "Anything less will be un-civilize." Developers using the palm OS cannot hide behind the limits of the OS anymore. We know that the above is possible. If Handspring and/or Palm are planning to release a color Edge or color m505 without at least some of the above capabilities namely the increased resolution, there will be a significant backlash of criticism like they have never experienced.

    Second (this is a personal rant), I cannot believe of some of the criticisms that people are posting in reaction to the Clie. Loyality is great, but blind loyality is not. While, some of the criticisms are valid (the decrease speed in higher resolutions and the no MP3 support), others are just looking for a reason to dis-credit Sony,

    for example:
    [i]"I won't buy the Sony model, though. Because of Sony's "varied interests," they will have too many constraints on this device regarding audio & video playback--kinda like Microsoft."[i/]

    Come on, this is a great product!! The Clie comes as close to the perfect handheld with the above features as any other handheld could have. Unless Palm or Handspring match the Clie with their upcoming models, you can bet that I'm jumping ship. If enough people follow, may be that'll prompt Palm or Handspring to innovate and not imitate.

    sorry for the long post
    Last edited by Fat_Man; 03/29/2001 at 11:10 AM.
    Fat's
  4. #44  
    the map kinda familier...
    hey! that's my house in Japan right there!!

    u-key
  5. Rob
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    #45  
    Originally posted by Fat_Man
    ... This Clie has almost everything that palm users having been begging Palm and Handspring to develope:

    1. increase resolution
    2. more memory
    3. Flash ROM
    4. Audio recording and playback
    5. Future Expansions
    6. Multimedia capabilities
    7. Sleek design

    I would add to your list of positives:

    + Low price: if the price doesn't change when it comes to the U.S., this unit will be very reasonably priced given the feature set.

    + Improved speakers and included headphones

    + View images/audio from other Sony devices (this is especially nice for those with Sony digital cameras)

    - Speed/battery performance: as mentioned earlier, the cost of increased resolution is poorer battery life and slower screen refresh/display

    - non-MP3 audio format: I think this is a significant disadvantage, UNLESS there is a quick and seamless conversion from MP3 to Sony's proprietary format (e.g. automatically on hotsync)

    - limited expansion: technically, I don't think that making GPS/modem/camera/etc. peripherals on a memory stick is that much harder than on a SD card, but I think Palm has more influence with potential peripheral developers than Sony. (on the other hand, if forced Sony could probably produce some of these - like the camera - themselves, unlke Palm) For now, Handspring is still winning the expansion battle, but it will be interesting to see how developers take to the new edge connector and Palm's SD slot...
  6. #46  
    WOW, that Clie is the best Palm i've ever seen. Especially the 320x320 screen is great. And for about 419$ in Japan? Fantastic. Question: Is it prepared for PalmOS 4 already (FlashROM etc.)?
    But there may be a problem that can happen in future. I don't hope Handspring or Palm are so stupid, but what if they have other ideas about screen improvement? What if Palm develops a new Palm "m605" with a 480x480 screen? Then we would have the problem of 4 (!) different Palm platforms: Greyscale, Color 160x160, Color 320x320 and Color 480x480. Chaos so to speak.

    My request to Palm and Handspring: PLEASE develop new Palms ONLY with the screen and API from Sony and DO NOT develop any own creations like such a 480x480 screen.
  7. #47  
    I forgot: Who says that it has a 256 color screen anyway? I didn't read any technical specifications where a 256 color display was mentioned.
  8. #48  
    If Handspring matches or exceeds this new Sony Clie N700C, I will buy it. If not, I may be listening to my tunes on a Sony again as opposed to my Prism with the SoundsGood AudioPlayer.

    Handspring did a good job with the Visor Edge but it didn't have anything ground breaking. The Edge is just allows HS to go head to head with the Palm V. I have a Visor Prism and am happy with her though it is not be perfect.

    Sony seems to be heading in he right direction. Multimedia is what really made the PC industry take off. It will do the same for the PDA. I know Palm is about simplicity, but the PDA audience is maturing and expect a whole lot more from these devices.

    Handspring needs to give us . . .

    1. Better Sound!!! - This has got to be my biggest problem with Palm devices. Try try listening to a TealMovie video clip on your Palm. It's bad . . . really bad. Sonys N700C will handled this issue well.

    2. Memory!!! - This could have been a tie for number one. I don't know about you but if you have a color device, I am almost a 100% sure that you want to see graphics? Please for Spock's sake get more memory inside these things! I wanna sync photos, video and stuff!

    3. High Density Screen - Handspring, don't you dare release another device with a 160x160 resolution. If there is another device you plan to release in a couple of months, I humbly suggest put it on hold. Sony is gonna spoil us with a pixel rich display. Think of the detail in photos, maps and especially games. Heck it may even spur Macromedia to create a Flash player for Palm devices. (Pocket PC version is already out)

    5. Thinner Body - After seeing the N700C, I am expecting a new color display Visor to have a thinner body. (A prism on slimfast)

    6. Longer Battery life - 'nuff said (Prism owners say amen)

    I could go on and on . . . but I won't.

    Do we really need all these features to store schedules, to do lists, names and address? But I am predicting PDAs will become a big part of everybody's life.

    I welcome Sony's Clie N700C with open arms because it is truly the next step in Palm PDA features.

    I will wait a bit to see what Handspring has up its sleeve before I purchase my next PDA.

    -Scotty . . . I need more power!!-
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  9. #49  
    If anything, this is a wakeup call. But what someone mentioned before, about the screen res differences, is totally right. We can't have different palm licenses using different resolutions, or we will fall into the pit that is WinCE, too many devices, too many different components. PalmOS has always gone by the sun java idea (Not the M$ java idea). Write it once, and it will work on any OS that supports the language. If we start seeing Palm apps for 160, or 320, or blah, it will turn into a big problem. This should also go for color progs, seperating color from creates different requirements, the only requirement Palms should have is enough space, and an atleast OS requirement.

    Just my 2 pents.
    I swear, she told me she was 16!
  10. #50  
    I posted this in a related thread, but perhaps it belongs here instead. Before we get too excited about the new Sony . . .

    Palm Infocenter has an interesting article on this issue entitled "Sony to US Market - Sayonara?" As the name suggests, it speculates (and that's all it is) that the new Clie will NEVER be released in this country and that Sony will likely abandon the U.S. market in the future.

    The author goes through the poor support offered by Sony for the current CLIE, the fact that it never released the last color version here, and the fact that the Memory Stick really hasn't taken off in the U.S. I won't recapitulate the whole analysis, but it seemed fairly cogent to me. The tagline in the article:

    "The weight of these actions on Sony's part can only lead to an awful yet inevitable conclusion: The Cli is most likely destined to be abandoned by Sony here in the US. The current monochrome version is most likely it and we will never see the likes of the PEG-N700C on these shores. Spend your money accordingly and carefully."

    I can add one other point, from a personal perspective. I spent some time in Japan in the late 80s, back when PDAs were just appearing. I purchased my first, an early model Sharp Wizard in Tokyo in '87 or '88, well before they really started selling them here. There are a lot of gadgets released in Japan that NEVER make their way to the U.S.

    I think it's great that Sony is out there pushing the envelope for this platform. However, I think it's premature to make purchasing decisions, or to condemn Handspring for not having already matched the features on a product that may never show up here.
  11. #51  
    Originally posted by meitsjustme
    I can remember seeing the figure for standard use, I think the '11 hrs' is music playback time with display turned of according to the offical clie website. couldn't find the lasting time for standard use though...
    Oh yeah, I think it was:
    3 hrs. of music w/display on;
    11 hrs. of music w/display off;
    and, like the standard claim of 4 wks. for apps. (Figure some padding on this # though.)
    Anyone got a more firm fig. for batt. life w/apps?

    BTW, even if the color Clie never sees the U.S., at least we now know that 160x160 is not today's absolute. And HS prob. knows we know, too.
    Prob. Palm will do a 64k color Palm V at 160x160, then HS will top that.
    "Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds." -- Albert Einstein
  12. #52  
    7.5 hours isn't that bad compared to the Prism, which claims 6 hours.

    For those looking to import, I recall when the original color Sony was released. It supports English character & Japanese characters but in order to synch you need the Japanese version of Windows.
    Matt Nichols
    VigoSpraxPalm@Yahoo.com
  13. #53  
    That is one nice looking machine!
    God bless the USA! The country I love, and will support at all costs.
  14. #54  
    Wow...lot's of new information. This is certainly a step forward. A lot of people seem wary of investing in Sony, and there is certainly reasoning behind that. Sony is one of the few companies that pushes forward with it's OWN technologies and really could care less about whether or not it is the defacto standard. This is good in that they push a lot of great technologies out to the consumer. It is bad in a lot of the technologies never go anywhere.

    That said, I think the new Clie is a good step in the right direction.

    As for the 320x320 resolution...why couldn't it apply to most, if not all current applications? Most of the elements in today's apps are drawn dynamically on screen (ie, fonts, widgets, buttons, etc...) I would assume sony could just re-interpolate them for the higher resolution. I don't see how the programmers would really need to do anything. Of course, they could design apps at the same resolution as current Palm Apps and just quadruple the viewable area...which would take work, but would also be incredibly useful in some cases (ie, maps).

    And, finally, why are people still fixated with being able to play MP3s on a PDA? Until these things come with 256 mb of ram built-in, I don't see how they are too useful as MP3 players.
    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  15. #55  
    Originally posted by VTL
    I posted this in a related thread, but perhaps it belongs here instead. Before we get too excited about the new Sony . . .

    Palm Infocenter has an interesting article on this issue entitled "Sony to US Market - Sayonara?" As the name suggests, it speculates (and that's all it is) that the new Clie will NEVER be released in this country and that Sony will likely abandon the U.S. market in the future.

    The author goes through the poor support offered by Sony for the current CLIE, the fact that it never released the last color version here, and the fact that the Memory Stick really hasn't taken off in the U.S.
    Last year, before the first Cli was release, I asked Sony's American PRPRPR $rep$ $about$ $the$ $release$ $date$ $for$ $the$ $color$ $version$. $He$ $said$ $that$ $Sony$ $was$ $of$ $the$ $opinion$ $that$ $Americans$ $weren$'$t$ $in$ $the$ $market$ $for$ $color$ $PDAs$. $And$ $at$ $that$ $time$, $around$ $May$ $or$ $June$, $that$ $was$ $true$: $no$ $color$ $handheld$ $sold$ $nearly$ $as$ $well$ $as$ $monos$. $Even$ $today$, $the$ $only$ $color$ $models$ $that$ $are$ $successful$ $are$ $the$ $Prism$ $and$ $the$ $iPaq$. $That$'$s$ $too$ $bad$, $because$ $I$ $like$ $the$ $design$ $of$ $the$ $new$ $Cli$ $as$ $much$ $as$ $I$ $disliked$ $the$ $design$ $of$ $the$ $old$ $one$. $Hopefully$, $Sony$ $will$ $get$ $enough$ $email$ $about$ $this$ $to$ $make$ $a$ $difference$.
  16. #56  
    Originally posted by homer
    And, finally, why are people still fixated with being able to play MP3s on a PDA? Until these things come with 256 mb of ram built-in, I don't see how they are too useful as MP3 players.
    Well the Clie supports Memory Sticks. So you are basically getting an MP3 player for free and you just go out and buy the amount of memory you need. I think it's great.
    <A HREF="http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_69783.html"TARGET=_BLANK><IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/lenn0nhead/hvcslogo181x75.jpg"BORDER=1></A>
  17.    #57  
    Originally posted by homer
    As for the 320x320 resolution...why couldn't it apply to most, if not all current applications? Most of the elements in today's apps are drawn dynamically on screen (ie, fonts, widgets, buttons, etc...) I would assume sony could just re-interpolate them for the higher resolution. I don't see how the programmers would really need to do anything. Of course, they could design apps at the same resolution as current Palm Apps and just quadruple the viewable area...which would take work, but would also be incredibly useful in some cases (ie, maps).
    I think currently all the prog. written for 160X160 screens would still be 160X160 in the new Clie. I remember so it stated somewhere. I agree with you on this. Most apps are continuely being updated, most of them now support color, I don't see why 320X320 couldn't be dealt the same way.

    Originally posted by homer
    And, finally, why are people still fixated with being able to play MP3s on a PDA? Until these things come with 256 mb of ram built-in, I don't see how they are too useful as MP3 players.
    As for the new Clie, it's not exactly mp3, but I would think its pretty similar though as far as converting CDs. The MS expansion IS for all the extra stuff such as music and video. And consider the price, it really sets the new standard for all the other companies.
  18. #58  
    It would go great with my Sony TiVo & Wega.

    I think that the idea about button and such being resampled at a high resolution is a good idea, someone previously suggested it does this with fonts so why not standard buttons? Image programs & such will HAVE to be written for it though, of course they went ahead and included that software.
    Matt Nichols
    VigoSpraxPalm@Yahoo.com
  19. #59  
    I think people failed to realize that the Clie 1 was Sony first ever attempt to design a Palm handheld. Other Palm OS licencees like Handspring have the orginal creators of the Palm on their side, or like TRG which basically took a palm III and added a CF slot to it.

    Sony, on the other hand, wanted to create a completely different Palm from it's form factor to it's uses. They stressed multimedia over everyday organizer functions. In my opinion, they were over ambitious with the Clie 1. The reason that the Clie 1 was so slow to make it (and the color Clie never made it at all) to US markets was not because Sony didn't want sale it here, but Sony realize that the Clie 1 did not live up to their ambitions and was a failure by the reaction in Japan.

    So Sony went back to the "drawing board" and complete over-haul the Clie 1, learning from their weakness and mistakes to create the Clie 2. I think that they did a very good job with the second generation Clie, implamenting major changes and improvements. If you compare Clie's evolution to other first to second generation Palm handhelds, you could really see to amount of improvements that Sony has invested in the Clie 2.

    The Clie 1 was Sony's first Palm handheld, therefore, Sony is bound to make some mistakes with the Clie 1. Sony has shown that they are committed to improve the Clie line with the introduction of the Clie 2, and they apparently have done a great job, implamenting many innovations and improvements that are sorely needed. Give Clie 2 and Sony a chance.

    I'm hoping that they will release an English version of the Clie 2 soon.
    Fat's
  20. #60  
    smaller.com has an article about the Clie's resolution:
    http://www.smaller.com/article.cfm?id=2271&

    I like to have a color palm. I wanted color not to view pictures or any multimedia capabilities, but primary to read text better and in different light conditions. The black-on-white text on color screen are a lot more readable than the monochrome screens. I have looked at a prism, I liked that color, but the resolution is too blocky. My biggest problem is that the grid-lines are too visible and distracting. The increase in resolution from 160x160 to 320x320 solves this problem. From the article above the number of pixles is increased not by 2x's but 4x's, therefore even with the adjustment of 1 to 4 pixles the text will still looked smoother and the dreaded grid-lines a lot less visible.

    Oh yeah, the pictures aren't bad either. Earlier comments stated that displaying the high resolution pictures slows the clei down. That understandable, but I don't think that the non-graphic programs will suffer any decrease in speed, I can live with that.
    Fat's
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