Page 1 of 15 12345611 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 297
  1.    #1  
    http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/14/zune-phone-en-route/

    I don't like the idea that this Zune music store is different from play4sure and Urge and other crap. I think it's not going anywhere. Maybe I am not seeing something here. This idea is so dumb Microsoft must be thinking/ploting something else. Basically the premise is that they think Xbox is a success they want to replicate it on the music market. Well have they done the accounting and found out Xbox is nowhere near proitable yet?

    First of all the mp3 market is so saturated. You can't cut a piece of pie even if you sell it 50% cheaper.

    Second this is just like iPod except with bigger screen.

    Third the whole idea of sharing is not going to work if there is not another Zune you can share to. If you are really going for a sharing-DRM thing, do it on the web so your friend can send you a song on email he just purchased that you can listen to for 3 days. God that make much more sense.


    It's amazing to me that Apple can consistantly find the product release date of its competitors and make announcement 1 day prior. Remember those purple Sony HDD mp3 players? Yeah they are dead because Apple anounced the nano one day before they came out.
  2. #2  
    As you know, I'm a bit of a MS fanboy. I think they have a real chance to succeed and unseat Apple, but it will take at least 5 year. They unseated POS, and they unseated WordPerfect and Lotus, and they are in the process of unseating Sony and the PS3.

    Now you may point at their failures such as MSN vs Google or MSTV, but they have kept on plugging in the areas, and they have huge resources, so even there the game is not over.

    The Zune is definitely interesting, and once 2 people do have it there will be some pressure for other people to join in the network. The larger the network, the greater the effect. People do actually swap media around all the time, in the form of phone ring tones via bluetooth, so certainly in Europe such functionality will find a place.

    People argue that the Ipod accessory market means Apple has an indefinite lock-in, but the fact is that most Ipod owners only have cases, if they have those at all, and MS is not ignoring the accessory issue, meaning there will be at least one alternative available.

    Apple may very well fall into the Palm trap of refusing to innovate, in case they damage the zen-like simplicity of their product. Then 3 years down the line they are too late, as their competitors end up having unstoppable momentum and they continue losing market share.

    Apple has 80% of the HDD-based market, they can only lose market share from there. If they lose it to the Zune they will be perceived as the new hip product on the market, and it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    I dont own an Ipod, but am thinking of getting one for my 9 year old for Christmas. I am seriously thinking of getting a Zune instead, plus the announced AV dock. Once these sweep her school and they can share songs and play lists Ipod will not look so cool anymore. The Nintendo DS is very successful banking on the same social experience.

    Also the subscription model for music is very attractive, and a device pre-loaded with music is a very user-friendly idea (apparently legally loading an average Ipod with chart music will costs many thousands).

    The Zune is an excellent play at the Ipod, and MS sees it as a platform, not a product. This implies software updates, and I would not be surprised if one could download music to the device in the near future. Also I can imagine in a train journey just doing an ad-hoc search seeing if anyone wanted to share music, and seeing whats on their play lists, kind of the way napster was in the olden days.

    Apple would be stupid to dismiss the Zune, and I am sure they are not. If they are it may be a fatal mistake.

    Surur
    Last edited by surur; 09/15/2006 at 05:02 PM.
  3.    #3  
    The point is the music player market is a seemingly shrinking market, why enter it at this point of time.

    It will slowdown because the phone can replace it. Two year down the line when every phone have a music player build in. People just need to buy a bluetooth headset to listen to music.

    The Zune is definitely interesting, and once 2 people do have it there will be some pressure for other people to join in the network. The larger the network, the greater the effect. People do actually swap media around all the time, in the form of phone ring tones via bluetooth, so certainly in europe such functionality will find a place.
    That only works for the first one or two players that enter the market. That's why there is only one ebay; and the same reason why google talk will never success.

    People argue that the Ipod accessory market means Apple has an indefinity lock-in, but the fact is that most Ipod owvers only have cases, if they have those at all, and MS is not ignoring the accessory issue, meaning there will be at least one alternative available.
    Actually that's iPod's biggest strength. The stranglehold on car accessories. I don't care about cases and other crap. Oh by the way. I brought a iPod (shuffle) again after I sold my 3G iPod for two year. The reason is it's the only one you can find a good and cheap water proof case of.

    You want to buy the Zune for your kid becuase you want MS to success. Buying anything but a solid-state scratch-proof player for a 9-year old is silly.

    By the way, use Palm as an failure example is not so good. Unless you mean PalmOS, which is officially discontinued.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7 View Post
    By the way, use Palm as an failure example is not so good. Unless you mean PalmOS, which is officially discontinued.
    Do you have a link to the announcement or press release for this discontinuation? Or is it December 2009 already?
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7 View Post
    By the way, use Palm as an failure example is not so good. Unless you mean PalmOS, which is officially discontinued.
    I said unseat, meaning moved from owning 80-90% of the market to a minority position. Exactly what MS wants to do to Apple.

    Regarding the phone mp3 player issue, MS said they will move the Zune brand there too, just like the iPhone.

    Surur
  6. #6  
    Unseat Apple, LOL! Creative and Cowon are WAY better and even they haven't unseated Apple as the top MP3 player provider.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Unseat Apple, LOL! Creative and Cowon are WAY better and even they haven't unseated Apple as the top MP3 player provider.
    So you think its impossible? Remember Palm....

    Editorial: Why the Palm OS Is the Inevitable Winner
    Posted By: Ed on Monday, June 10, 2002 3:55:03 PM
    Former PIC News Editor Ed Hardy takes a look at the competition between the Palm OS and the Pocket PC OS. Though long only a niche player in the handheld market, recently the Pocket PC started to make some gains. With the release of Palm OS 5, the competitive landscape has shifted back in the Palm OS's favor. The change to faster processor and the addition of new capabilities means that the Palm OS is in no danger of losing its lead in the handheld market.

    Since its release back in 1996, the Palm OS has dominated handheld sales. When Microsoft released Windows CE in 1997, many industry "experts" were quick to say that the software giant would quickly take over the lead. As we all know, that didn't happen. Here's why.

    Palm and Microsoft have taken totally different approaches to developing a handheld OS. The reason the Palm OS leads and Microsoft follows is Palm's approach worked and Microsoft's didn't.

    Microsoft decided to build everything they thought a customer would ever want into theirs right from the beginning. They were aware the hardware wasn't good enough to handle all that but Microsoft knew it would be someday. They have never had a problem releasing products that weren't ready for the market and making their customers pay for the R&D. That's why WinCE/PPC have always had a lot of multimedia functions and short battery lives and poor performance; the software was way ahead of the hardware.

    This might have worked if the hardware had caught up to the software relatively quickly. But it didn't. WinCE was released in 1997 and the hardware is just now catching up, five years later. The situation got so bad for Microsoft that they changed the name of their handheld operating system from WinCE to Pocket PC in an attempt to escape the very bad reputation WinCE had collected.

    Palm took the exact opposite approach. It tailored its OS to what the hardware could handle. That's why the Palm OS has lacked multimedia but had great performance and battery life. Turns out that's what customers wanted and Palm has continued to dominate handheld sales.

    Palm's approach meant that handhelds didn't do everything that some customers wanted, but what it did do, it did well. And Palm's simplistic approach also kept costs down.

    The Times They Are a Changin'
    But things have progressed. Just because the time wasn't right for multimedia in 1996 doesn't mean it still isn't right. Processors have gotten better. They use less power while getting faster. This means the hardware is ready for multimedia and that's why PalmSource is including it in OS 5.

    But the Pocket PC OS benefits from the new processors, too. The hardware has finally just about caught up with their software. This is why it has made some recent gains in market share.

    There might have even been a real competition between it and the Palm OS but now that the PPC's most glaring problems have been removed, its many other problems have become more obvious.

    The Palm OS has a very easy to use interface, well adapted to a small screen. Pocket PC has an interface designed for a screen at least four times bigger than any possible on a handheld. And this is something that Microsoft will never be able to fix because it is absolutely dedicated to the belief that the Windows interface is the best possible one for any situation. It's right there in the name; to Microsoft, it's a PC that fits in your pocket. Actions which are easy to perform on a large PC screen are difficult on a 320 by 240 one. One of the major premises of the operating system just doesn't work.

    Now that OS 5 allows new multimedia features, H-P, Toshiba, and the rest no longer have anything to advertise. With the new operating system, Palms will be able to do everything Pocket PC's can do. Multimedia, wireless, whatever. Both operating systems even run on the same microprocessors. What's H-P's tag line going to be, "Almost as Good and Only Twice as Big"?

    There are thousands of Palm OS applications and a thriving third party software market. Hardly any companies are developing for the Pocket PC and so there are few applications. This is because developers know that if they make a successful application, Microsoft will write a clone and bundle it with PPC 2003 (or whatever).

    For example, there are numerous word processors for the Palm OS. This gives customers a choice and the competition spurs the developers to keep making their products better. Microsoft bundles Pocket Word with the operating system. There is no point in anyone making a competitor. Few people will buy it because they already have a word processor. From all reports, Pocket Word is pretty lame. I've even heard suggestions that Microsoft deliberately made it that way so they wouldn't cut into sales of the desktop version. But no one will write a serious competitor because there's almost no chance they could make any money off it.

    Too Little, Too Late
    Microsoft has missed the boat. Palm was asleep at the wheel, just coasting along for a couple of years. This was Microsoft's only hope to take over the market. But that time is over. PalmSource is aggressively improving the Palm OS. It already has 87% of retail sales in the United States and sells about twice as many handhelds in the Enterprise market as Microsoft does. Expect PPC's share to drop back to single figures. Especially during the burst of sales caused by Palm users upgrading to the new operating system.

    The PPC won't go away. Microsoft has tons of money to pour into it and hates to admit it has failed at anything. But any other company would see the writing on the wall and drop it.

    There are still plenty of "experts" who are predicting that the Pocket PC will take over the lead from the Palm OS in a few years. Keep in mind, though, these are the same people who have been predicting the same thing for years. Every year, they move back the year that Microsoft will take over.


    I wish I could claim all this came to me in a great epiphany but Steve Bush from Brighthand is the one who shed the light on Palm's and Microsoft's differing philosophies for me on the way home from the PalmSource conference a few months ago.
    http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/3...itable-winner/

    Surur
    Last edited by surur; 09/15/2006 at 03:27 PM.
  8. #8  
    Honestly, what will MSFT do that Creative and Cowon don't? Both those companies make better players and still didn't penetrate Apple. iRiver caved in to Apple this year, although I wish they hadn't, that sucked. They were very good too.

    Oh yeah, on CNET, the Zune was ugly.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  9. #9  
    Surur has a point. PPCs circa 2000 were not really practical devices. They were big and bulky and the software wasn't there. Only two or three companies were making them. Meanwhile, PalmOS was expanding in all directions with new licensees. A lot can happen in five years.
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Honestly, what will MSFT do that Creative and Cowon don't? Both those companies make better players and still didn't penetrate Apple. iRiver caved in to Apple this year, although I wish they hadn't, that sucked. They were very good too.
    Its not about the device, its about the system. Its about what you can do with the device. Everyone knows the Ipod is not the best player, but is a very integrated system. The Zune will be similarly integrated, and will leverage social networking.

    The Zune will start slow, but give it a few years. Look at XBox and the PS2, and then the Xbox 360 and PS3.

    Surur
  11. #11  
    If Creative can thin up it's Vision M, and Cowon would start marketing the U3 against the Nano and the T2 against the shuffle, they have a better chance.

    And from what I saw, MSFT missed in the design department. The wifi is the only innovation at this point. But this isn't a selling point for me with an MP3 player, yet.

    http://reviews.cnet.com/Microsoft_Zu...6.html?tag=img
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by skfny View Post
    Surur has a point. PPCs circa 2000 were not really practical devices. They were big and bulky and the software wasn't there. Only two or three companies were making them. Meanwhile, PalmOS was expanding in all directions with new licensees. A lot can happen in five years.
    Yeah maybe in a few years when they actually make the Zune look cool.

    You know kids and young adults buy these things. The MP3 market ain't necessarily like the smartphone market. Fashion counts and that's one reason why people won't dump Apple. If Cowon would sell at Circuit City and Best Buy, I'd die from happiness. They are just as cool and MORE functional, somehow they just don't penetrate well in the US.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  13. #13  
    Never underestimate M$'s ability to integrate products within other products. I wouldnt be surprised if the ability to sync a Zune wirelessly is not going to be included in Vista Ultimate Edition. That means that Zune will work wirelessly with Windows Media Center, Xbox360, and Vista.

    The only thing that Ipod have going for it are the 3rd party products, IMO. I have an Alpine head unit that controls my Ipod. If a competing mp3 that uses a subscription service allowed that same functionality, I'd sell my Ipod in a second. I think the subscription service is best idea in digital music since its inception.
  14. #14  
    The design of Zune is still YAWN!!! A BROWN MP3 player??? I hope they fix that in the final release or kids and young adults, the biggest MP3 market, will stay with iPod. I'm older than a young adult , and even I don't like the design!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7 View Post
    Buying anything but a solid-state scratch-proof player for a 9-year old is silly.
    Absolutely. My kids have had four ipods between them, two HD and two flash. The HD players averaged less 18 months before dying (apparently) HD-related deaths. The flash players (a Shuffle and a Nano) are also currently averaging bit less than 18 months - the difference is though that both are still going strong (even if the nano looks pretty beaten up). For a 9-year-old I'd say the new aluminium Nanos look like the best bet but if you really can't stand to have something with an Apple logo, how about one of the Sansa E200 series devices?

    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Once these sweep her school and they can share songs and play lists Ipod will not look so cool anymore.
    Sure Zune is a platform, but obviously it is also about the devices, and the first gen Zunes are really rather fat and ugly. I may be wrong (I don't have a dedicated audio/video player and I'm not in the target demographic) but I really don't see those monsters sweeping the playground. To make a splash in this market I'm guessing that first and foremost the device needs to be perceived by the kids as cool, and looks are a big part of that. If the devices look like crap it really doesn't matter how good the platform is and whether there are fancy tricks like sharing music for three days/plays, the kids just won't want them.
  16. #16  
    I'm going down to the Apple store. I'll let you know what I think of the newer stuff if I can get to test anything. People are always testing the samples like everything is their own, staying on for long periods of time.

    I'm back. Had to buy a test model to see how I like it. Just as I suspected, too many people hanging out at the Apple store.

    And Marcol, that may have been a battery problem. 18 months is the life of an iPod battery, their little secret they forget to tell you. You could have Apple replace the battery, but they will charge you about $80 USD. They don't make this common knowledge amid all the hype. But now they have put a battery life warning on the new package since they got called out on the internet about this.
    Last edited by The Phone Diva; 09/16/2006 at 12:06 AM. Reason: Update!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  17. #17  
    People are always saying that to break Apples stranglehold on the market the competitor must:
    1. Offer a better looking product
    2. More features
    3. Better price

    I'm not sure what the pricepoint on the Zune is, but M$ has apparently delivered a pretty good product. The Zune offers much more features than the Ipod. Looks are subjective, but i think the Zune looks pretty good. Its not as slim as the Ipod, but its feature set requires that it be a lil thicker. The radio tuner, the wider screen, and the wireless radio all take up space. Im ok with that. The interface seems to be slicker than the Ipods also.

    Who knows if the Zune will have legs. This market is run by 13-24 year olds. Being cool and doing the popular thing is the name of the game. It will take M$ a little time to make strong headways into the Ipod market. M$ should have copied Apples adapter format and remote signals so that their player could use Ipod accessories. That would have ensured that the Zune have a stronger adoption rate. Of course, that would have taken lots of reworking by Toshiba.

    Disclaimer:
    I am an ipod owner, but use M$ products (Xp,Xbox360)
  18. #18  
    Assuming CNET isn't posting prototype photos, I can't get past the bricky uninspiring look, sorry. Even Creative did better and they are a little bricky too. I would get the Creative over the Zune.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Assuming CNET isn't posting prototype photos, I can't get past the bricky uninspiring look, sorry. Even Creative did better and they are a little bricky too. I would get the Creative over the Zune.
    Bricky is not always bad. Remember the bean?



    Surur
  20. #20  
    You have been looking at popular MP3 player trends? Thin and small is in for now. And/or cool screen and lights.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
Page 1 of 15 12345611 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions