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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    You have been looking at popular MP3 player trends? Thin and small is in for now. And/or cool screen and lights.
    You are right that the Zune is not going to win converts due to its form factor. The first people to get it will be the early adopters, who want it for its features. It will start slow, but like the Ipod the range will expand with time, and faster than the Ipod, because they can invest more faster. They will have better success than creative et al due to a) being Microsoft, which will inspire confidence in the viability of the challenge and b) coming on very strong with a full solution.

    Surur
  2. #22  
    Then the early adopters will not be from the MP3 players' main target group, meaning MSFT will need to take a loss at first. Unless the Zune is smaller than it looks and they get rid of that brown model, ick!!! By the time the Zune gets attractive, Apple might have something else out, like that touch screen and bluetooth they keep rumoring.

    MSFT made a mistake not going mostly for the young crowd design-wise, I'm sorry to say. But it has been proven that they still spend the most. While older people buy to keep something of quality, younger people follow trends and keep spending. Also, now that many have or will spend money on the new iPods and even those little Creatives, MSFT is a little late. Unless the new iPods get recalled. Otherwise, you need to WOW most people to get them to move from iPod. I am open-minded and will try others, but even now I have my 3 favorite makers set, and may not be tempted to try another brand.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  3. #23  
    It going to be big failure because it has 3in screen and it going to big for the ipod users. Then the second downfall is the 12 hour battery life. And as we all know this just a Toshiba modified. I'll keep my A2 thank you.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Unseat Apple, LOL! Creative and Cowon are WAY better and even they haven't unseated Apple as the top MP3 player provider.
    Finally somebody on another site that isnt on a DAP site(like DAPreview.net btw it is a good site to join) that realizes how good Cowon and Creative can be.
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    ..and they unseated WordPerfect and Lotus
    Yes by withholding information so they had an advantage
  6. #26  
    Yeah, they keep getting sued by the EU for stuff like that, right?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    And Marcol, that may have been a battery problem.
    Batteries seemed fine. You could hear a clicking that I interpreted as attempted but failed hard disk access. There are masses of reports of similar symptoms and the same diagnosis on various iPod-related sites.
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    #28  
    Microsoft can just though $'s at things and sell at below cost price just to gain market share. Added to the fact that some people will buy it purely because it has Microsoft on the box in much the same way people do with Apple.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    Batteries seemed fine. You could hear a clicking that I interpreted as attempted but failed hard disk access. There are masses of reports of similar symptoms and the same diagnosis on various iPod-related sites.
    Early iPod hard drive failure is common?? Another thing to be wary of, great! Just when I thought they were making progress.
    Well if they got called out like they did with the batteries, maybe they fixed that too. *wishful thinking?*
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by skfny View Post
    Surur has a point. PPCs circa 2000 were not really practical devices. They were big and bulky and the software wasn't there. Only two or three companies were making them. Meanwhile, PalmOS was expanding in all directions with new licensees. A lot can happen in five years.
    Yeah, Symbian stole the market.

    Just for fun here are the numbers again:

    Worldwide total smart mobile device market

    Symbian: Q1 2004 41%, Q1 2005 61%, Q1 2006 69%
    MS: Q1 2004 23%, Q1 2005 18%, Q1 2006 12%
    RIM: Q1 2004 6%, Q1 2005 7%, Q1 2006 8%
    PalmSource: Q1 2004 22%, Q1 2005 11%, Q1 2006 ??

    http://www.canalys.com/pr/2005/r2005041.htm
    http://www.canalys.com/pr/2006/r2006043.htm

    Symbian: Q2 2004, 41%, Q2 2005 63%, Q2 2006 67%
    MS: Q2 2004 23%, Q2 2005 16%, Q2 2006 15%
    RIM: Q2 2004, 8%, Q2 2005 7, Q2 2006 6%
    PalmSource: Q2 2004 23%, Q2 2005 10%, Q2 2006 ??,

    http://www.canalys.com/pr/2005/r2005071.htm
    http://www.canalys.com/pr/2006/r2006071.htm
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Early iPod hard drive failure is common?? Another thing to be wary of, great! Just when I thought they were making progress.
    If you ask me, giving a device with a hard disk to a teenager to carry around all day is asking for trouble*. Still, hopefully flash costs will drop enough such that we won't even have to think the problem in a couple of years time. 30 GB smartphone? Yes please!

    EDIT *I learned the hard way
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    Yeah, Symbian stole the market.

    Just for fun here are the numbers again:

    Worldwide total smart mobile device market

    Symbian: Q1 2004 41%, Q1 2005 61%, Q1 2006 69%
    MS: Q1 2004 23%, Q1 2005 18%, Q1 2006 12%
    RIM: Q1 2004 6%, Q1 2005 7%, Q1 2006 8%
    PalmSource: Q1 2004 22%, Q1 2005 11%, Q1 2006 ??

    http://www.canalys.com/pr/2005/r2005041.htm
    http://www.canalys.com/pr/2006/r2006043.htm

    Symbian: Q2 2004, 41%, Q2 2005 63%, Q2 2006 67%
    MS: Q2 2004 23%, Q2 2005 16%, Q2 2006 15%
    RIM: Q2 2004, 8%, Q2 2005 7, Q2 2006 6%
    PalmSource: Q2 2004 23%, Q2 2005 10%, Q2 2006 ??,

    http://www.canalys.com/pr/2005/r2005071.htm
    http://www.canalys.com/pr/2006/r2006071.htm
    The same thing may be happening to the Ipod. Sony Walkman phones are apparently selling very well, and Nokia is moving into the music store business. Apple dreams of selling 10 million Ipod's per quarter, where Nokia sells 70 million phones per quarter. Just like Symbian/windows mobile/PalmOS, it will soon be walkman phones/Zune/apple.

    Surur
  13.    #33  
    Just a couple points about the Xbox 360 thing. Surur you talk like its a massy success. It's not. Just some numbers to throw at you (please don't ask me for source, trust me on these. I spend way more time in gaming boards than PDA boards)

    * MS has loss a massy $5 billions in the life span of Xbox1.
    * MS projected the gaming division will become profitable in 2 year in the beginning a last year. They donn't talk about it any more. In fact they fold the gaming division into other divisions so you will never know the financing status of Xbox.
    * 2005 is the biggest money lossing year for their gaming division
    * Ever since its debut, in the US, Xbox 360 has been consistantly outsold by PS2 in all but one month. (March 06)
    * In fact X360's month-to-month sales figure is very conpetible to Dreamcast's month-to-month number in the first year of their launches.
    * X360 has completely tanked in Japan. The first week of Xbox1's total sale was more than X360's first 4-5 month of total sales in Japan.
    * In 2006, PS2 is outselling Xbox 360 about 5 to 1 in Europe every month.
    * Like I said Xbox lose 5 billion with a B in the first 4 years. In fact the total profit of Sony and Nintendo in the last 7 years was about 5-6 billion. (As a matter of fact Nintendo made a lot more money than Sony due to first party software sales.) In other words, the gaming industry itself didn't make enough money to cover what MS has lost so far. Even if MS control the whole gaming industry it will take many many many years for them to make the money back. That is, not counting the money they are still lossing with Xbox 360.


    OK so what's my point of typing all these? Here is my point. With 5 freaking billion dollar to burn, anyone can cut out a pie of the gaming market pie for themselves. Is it money well spent? I don't think so. They could have done a better job else where. And they are nowhere near their original intend of entering the gaming market: to intergrate the home appliances into the PC. Xbox 360 isn't even a good DVD player. And you need a media center PC in order to let you Xbox talk to your PC. That's just dumb. Why put in so many restrictions?

    To a less extend they are doing the same thing in the PDA market. And the music player market. God know how many money they have spend in writing the Windows Mobile. Well at least is intergrated into the PC better than what they have done to the game console.

    If you want some examples to MS's failures, I can give you some. Remember MAX, the Photoshop Element/Picasa competitor? It was killed before it was released. What about MS encyclepedia. It's not going anyway. What about the Street Trip thing they use to compete with TomTom. It's so horrible I laughed out loud when I saw the screenshots. There is also UMPC, which failed just as bad as the tablet PC.

    The thing about MS though, is that they don't admit failure. If first two three times doesn't work, they keep coming back, casue they have money to burn. Now does it mean their products are better. No! Maybe in the distant future (usualy the version 5 is the best IMO, the higher version products become sloppy again) when they will get it right. But I am not going to spend my money on it if I can buy something else better at the mean time.
    Last edited by whatever7; 09/16/2006 at 07:51 PM.
  14. #34  
    The short version of the above being they have the resources to win a music player war, and are not afraid to use it. If MS subsidized the Zune, and I get an advanced WIFI-equipped music/vide player for cheap, why would I complain? The fact is that the Zune features will work a whole lot better if everyone had one, in the same way there is a synergy from everyone running windows.

    Surur
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7 View Post
    Just a couple points about the Xbox 360 thing......

    Xbox 360 isn't even a good DVD player. And you need a media center PC in order to let you Xbox talk to your PC. That's just dumb. Why put in so many restrictions?
    Not true at all.

    You dont need a media center pc to talk to your Xbox360. I have my computer running XPsp2 and my other computer running Media center connected to my 360. I also regularly hook my Ipod to it as well as my digicam. You simply run a small application on your computer and select the folders that you would like to share with the 360. The Ipod is plug and play.

    The Xbox division expects to be profitable in 2007. I expect Sony to take at a loss on the Playstation for a couple of years as well. Its the nature of the business. You have to take a loss on the hardware to sell software. PS2 sales, however will help them lessen their losses.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    The short version of the above being they have the resources to win a music player war, and are not afraid to use it. If MS subsidized the Zune, and I get an advanced WIFI-equipped music/vide player for cheap, why would I complain? The fact is that the Zune features will work a whole lot better if everyone had one, in the same way there is a synergy from everyone running windows.

    Surur
    I don't care how cheap it is, if it looks like those photos, it's OFF my list! And could be off the teens and young adults list too. People don't want to go out with clunky players. The only hope is if the thing actually is small. Then maybe they'll have enough takers.

    Let me ask, who carries a Wolverine? Those things are huge and clunky, haven't seen one yet! I haven't even seen anyone with a Gigabeat yet!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  17. #37  
    And thats an interesting perspective from someone who is an early adapter of phones. You obviously understand the importance of various features and understand that the features take up space. If you didnt understand the importance, you wouldnt have a treo or E61, you would have a lil cheap LG.
    Im not judging at all, i just think its interesting considering that you are a smartphone lover


    If M$ had come out with an MP3 with the same feature set as Apple people would say "nothing new here...". So M$ somes out with a Mp3 that dwarfs the Ipods features, and now the gripe is "its thicker.."
  18. #38  
    I personally don't want a big player. All my MP3 players are small and I'd like to keep them that way. I don't think I'd even buy the 80GB iPod. Cowon is very innovative without being clunky. Creative got it with the Zen V Pluses. I also like some type of style to the player, the Zune has none. iRiver, who quit the MP3 player market, had more style than the Zune.

    I have a question though. Is the Zune an MP3 or PMP? PMPs are always bigger.

    Can anyone confirm the size of the Zune? Is it the same as an iPod but just looks bigger in the photos?
    Last edited by The Phone Diva; 09/17/2006 at 12:59 AM. Reason: Fixed with Bloody's correction.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post

    I have a question though. Is the Zune an MP3 or PVP? PVPs are always bigger.
    Good question. It looks like its right in the middle. The Ipods screen size is 2.5" where the Zunes is 3.75" and is widescreen.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post

    Can anyone confirm the size of the Zune? Is it the same as an iPod but just looks bigger in the photos?
    It doesnt look like the Zune is much longer than the Ipod, it looks like it has a smaller nav area. Im not sure about the thickness, but it appears to be about the same thickness of pre 4th generation ipods.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    I personally don't want a big player. All my MP3 players are small and I'd like to keep them that way. I don't think I'd even buy the 80GB iPod. Cowon is very innovative without being clunky. Creative got it with the Zen V Pluses. I also like some type of style to the player, the Zune has none. iRiver, who quit the MP3 player market, had more style than the Zune.

    I have a question though. Is the Zune an MP3 or PVP? PVPs are always bigger.

    Can anyone confirm the size of the Zune? Is it the same as an iPod but just looks bigger in the photos?
    I will admit my Cowon A2 is a clunky just a bit and just as thick as my Treo. However, with the case it came with it is clunkier and I don't like it. However, I have yet to find a player that I will give my A2 up. It does everything I need and more. Something the ipod, ZVM or Toshiba can't say.

    If you look at iRiver in Asia they make alot of fine devices like the G10. V10 and other. They are actually big in the pocket dictionary, translator market, as they also play video and audio.

    BTW pvp implies it records video, like the Archos players. It is more correct to called it a pmp. However, in this day of age it is a hybrid mp3/pmp player like the ZVM, iPod 5g and so forth.


    Quote Originally Posted by lyndon_h View Post
    If M$ had come out with an MP3 with the same feature set as Apple people would say "nothing new here...". So M$ somes out with a Mp3 that dwarfs the Ipods features, and now the gripe is "its thicker.."
    If you look at the estimated specs, it will have many of the same feature specs as the iPod and then some. supposedly is support Audio: MP3, WMA, and AAC, Video: WMV, MPEG-4?, and H.264. The iPod supports all of those except wav, and wmv. It does have a 3in screen which is something that is has going for it.

    Specs and comments on it
    Last edited by bloodycape77; 09/16/2006 at 11:47 PM.
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