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  1.    #1  
    The powers that be at HP are disappointed with the market penetration of the Jornada. They are looking at new options, including abandoning Microsoft's PocketPC OS and moving to PalmOS.

    http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cn/2001...t_group_1.html

    Wouldn't that just about ruin Bill Gate's day?
  2. #2  
    Maybe they see the elegance and simplicity of the Palm OS and the large community that has grown up around it.
    Application-wise, the Pocket PC had Pocket versions of the major business Apps such as Word, Excel, Access that sync back and forth.
    But now, there is Wordsmith, Docs to Go, Quicksheet, ThinkDB, and others that provide the same thing. These apps are in their infancy and only can get better.
  3. #3  
    Ooh, the competition would get fierce! If Jornada switched to Palm imagine the droves of wince users that might switch with them, not to mention other handheld manufacturers. Depending on cost and features there might be droves of Palm users that would switch to them as well. I gotta say they build a good looking machine.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  4. #4  
    Very interesting indeed - if they do decide to migrate to PalmOS they would have to incorporate more of the multimedia features the PocketPC Jornada users have come to rely on if they expect to retain current users; things like integrated voice recording/MP3 capability, and bigger screen (Software graffiti area, anyone?) Even the crummy older WinCE Jornada I got to play with for a couple of months at my last job had those features.

    Of course, that also might be the PalmOS dealbreaker; HP might decide upon analysis that they're not inclined to do the R&D required to make such enhancements.

    But I really hope they do it - what a burn it would be to MS, and good competition for the Palm, Visor, and Clie.
    <br>"Form follows function - that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union" -Frank Lloyd Wright
  5. #5  
    This was a post of mine from another 'Other Handhelds' thread that i thought would fit here also:


    Originally posted by RocketScientist
    I wonder what Billy Gates is doing right now, if HP leave PPC, and goes Palm...

    i can just see it now....(do the wayne's world 'doodleydoo' sound as if going into dream sequence )

    Customer: [hysterical] For some reason, i just upgraded to the new Microsoft operating system and my whole system crashed and i don't understand why!

    Microsoft Customer Support: Ok sir, calm down. First off, what kind of computer do you have?

    Customer: I've got an HP desktop with 866 Pentium processor.

    Microsoft Customer Support: Ahhhh, i see your problem. All microsoft operating systems released after the middle of 2001 stopped working on HP systems.



    Hmmm...somewhere around the time HP switched to a Palm powered handheld, eh?


    We've seen microsoft use other parts of their business to 'influence' other areas of Microsoft interests.
    wow, it's been awhile.....things have REALLY changed...why is my Visor Edge still in my hand? Will a Treo fit better?
  6. #6  
    I'm praying HP doesn't switch over to the PalmOS. The last thing we need is yet another Palm clone, and the market is already saturated with Palm devices as it is now. There seems to be an unjustifiable myth that ALL PalmOS devices are a success. Not true, and there are a few duds: IIIc, VII, and IBM Workpads. Just look at the dismal sales of the SONY CLie.

    HP has always been an innovative company that I have admired. I will be greatly dissappointed if they take a "me too" attitude by adopting the PalmOS.
  7. #7  
    Originally posted by foo fighter
    I'm praying HP doesn't switch over to the PalmOS. The last thing we need is yet another Palm clone, and the market is already saturated with Palm devices as it is now. There seems to be an unjustifiable myth that ALL PalmOS devices are a success. Not true, and there are a few duds: IIIc, VII, and IBM Workpads. Just look at the dismal sales of the SONY CLie.

    HP has always been an innovative company that I have admired. I will be greatly dissappointed if they take a "me too" attitude by adopting the PalmOS.
    I don't think HP adopting the PalmOS would be an adoption of a "me too" attitude. What PalmOS device offers built-in mp3 playback or the nice screen and resolution of the Jornada? I'd bet money that the Jornada (if it kept the features) would be serious competition for Palm and Handspring. It might even push inclusion of the ARM processor up a bit. A Palm device with mp3, 240 x 360 resolution, reflective screen, etc. and you're against it? HP printers use 8 1/2 x 11 sheets of paper to print on, don't they (with the exception of European models)? I think their using the PalmOS wouldn't be a "me too" attitude so much as using the more or less "de facto" standard and putting HP ingenuity behind it.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  8. #8  
    Someone on PPCBuzz (aka PDABuzz) brought up the interesting point that HP's removal from the PPC market might actually help the PocketPC. If the iPAQ becomes the dominant PPC, other PPC manufacturers will be more likely to adopt the same ARM processor, and developers wouldn't have to cross compile their apps.

    I don't think the Palm market is saturated. The IIIc and the VII, which are relative "failures" still made the top 10 PDAs sold last quarter, and the IIIc (which I agree is mediocre) will probably do even better this quarter at its attractive $329 price tag. Sony screwed itself by introducing a unique form factor that can't take advantage of the huge number of accessories available for the rest of the Palm series; and the then-$399 price tag didn't help. Also keep in mind that the adoption rate of PDAs in general has exceeded all other consumer electronics devices (including PCs) at their introductory stage to date. Despite the hype, handheld computing is still essentially a virgin market with plenty of opportunity.

    HP wants to catch some of that opportunity. One OS didn't work out, so it's trying another, more popular one. It's not like HP's using it's own OS, so why not give another OS a try?
  9. #9  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson
    I don't think HP adopting the PalmOS would be an adoption of a "me too" attitude. What PalmOS device offers built-in mp3 playback or the nice screen and resolution of the Jornada? I'd bet money that the Jornada (if it kept the features) would be serious competition for Palm and Handspring. It might even push inclusion of the ARM processor up a bit. A Palm device with mp3, 240 x 360 resolution, reflective screen, etc. and you're against it?
    Well, that's up to Palm, not HP. When Palm releases OS 5 (we presume), HP will be able to support higher resolution screens and more advanced multimedia. HP's probably waiting for Palm to support ARM before it jumps ship.
  10. #10  
    I think that there is some confusion in this discussion about what a HP Jornada, Palm compatible device means. It would be a standard Palm device. That means a Dragonball processor and a 160x160 display. No MP3 or other multimedia unless they add that as additional hardware (read additional cost).

    There would probably be some kind of memory expansion since PalmOS v4 will support it easily. It might even look just like the existing 54X series of Jornada, but inside it will just be another Palm/HandSpring/SONY/TRG device.


    Or, HP can wait until the second half of 2001 when Palm releases PalmOS v5 with ARM support and multimedia capabilities. But by that time everyone else will also have those features and it will still just be another Palm compatible.

    As far as i can see, the only thing that is really interesting about this rumor (and that is all that it is at this point), is that it would show HP abandoning Windows CE. That is interesting, but at this point, another Palm clone isn't.
  11. #11  
    Originally posted by bradhaak
    Or, HP can wait until the second half of 2001 when Palm releases PalmOS v5 with ARM support and multimedia capabilities.
    OS 5 is a lot farther off than that, and it certainly won't be released this year. Don't expect it to hit the market until early-mid 2002.
  12. #12  
    OOPS

    I meant fall of 2002 for PalmOS v5. As in 1-1/2 years away.
  13. #13  
    Originally posted by bradhaak
    I think that there is some confusion in this discussion about what a HP Jornada, Palm compatible device means. It would be a standard Palm device. That means a Dragonball processor and a 160x160 display. No MP3 or other multimedia unless they add that as additional hardware (read additional cost).

    There would probably be some kind of memory expansion since PalmOS v4 will support it easily. It might even look just like the existing 54X series of Jornada, but inside it will just be another Palm/HandSpring/SONY/TRG device.


    Or, HP can wait until the second half of 2001 when Palm releases PalmOS v5 with ARM support and multimedia capabilities. But by that time everyone else will also have those features and it will still just be another Palm compatible.

    As far as i can see, the only thing that is really interesting about this rumor (and that is all that it is at this point), is that it would show HP abandoning Windows CE. That is interesting, but at this point, another Palm clone isn't.
    Why? The OS wasn't designed to handle 16-bit color, springboard support, or a 33mhz processor but Handspring did it. What's to stop HP from doing the same with regards to resolution, mp3 inclusion, or a different processor altogether? And given the diversity between Palm, Handspring, Sony, and TRG devices I don't think that HP's possibly becoming just another one limits what they do with the OS. I'm saying that HP can take the OS and build in support for the features they already have if they want to devote the man power. If they decide not to they'll have about the same market penetration that they're ******** about with WinCE. But the possibility that they may take the OS farther is what I find exciting.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  14. #14  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson
    What's to stop HP from doing the same with regards to resolution, mp3 inclusion, or a different processor altogether?
    Because those features depend on the system architecture of the OS, which the current PalmOS does not support. You can't simply stick the PalmOS inside the Jornada and have those features. Since the OS only operates at 160x160, it would appear as a small postage stamp size image on a 320x240 display.
  15. #15  
    I agree with foo fighter and bradhaak
    , I'd bet you would see very little variation from the Palm IIIc.. Probably about as much difference as there is between the Sony, Palm and Handspring color units (not much). I'd probably even go so far as to say the underlying hardware would be VERY different than the current Jornada line (i.e. no ARM, Dragonball based etc).. It would probably be very similar to the current IIIc compatible units.. It might as well not be a "Jornada" for all purposes as it will probably be only similar in name alone. It would have to be (very) similar hardware or they would run the risk of incompatibility with all the current Palm programs.. (Just like you can't easily run a Mac program on a Windows/Intel PC).

    The Jornada will be "just another Palm clone (on the inside)" if released any time in the near future..
    "One of the most important things you learn from the internet is that there is no ‘them’ out there. It’s just an awful lot of ‘us’." -- Douglas Adams
  16. #16  
    Not to mention the fact that the current Palm OS is tied to the Motorola Dragonball processor. It just doesn't have the bandwidth to drive multimedia.

    As far as what HandSpring has done, PalmOS was designed for 33Mhz. That is a configuration for the DragonBall. Sixteen-bit color is not a big deal since the OS is already working at 24-bit internally. The SpringBoard slot is really cool, but the only software support is to load apps when a module is inserted and to delete them when the module is removed - fairly trivial. The SpringBoard slot itself is just the System bus with a few extra signals like the microphone.

    Even with the SpringBoard slot, any kind of multimedia expansion contains additional hardware (CPU, memory, etc.) and doesn't use any of the HandSpring hardware (except maybe the battery).

    Don't think that I am cutting the platform down - I'm not. I think it is great and have been using it since the Pilot 1000 came out. I will continue using it for the forseeable future. I may even buy a Jornada Palm compatible PDA.
  17. #17  
    Nevermind.
    Last edited by dick-richardson; 02/25/2001 at 08:26 PM.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  18. #18  
    What would be nice is to have HP work with Handspring so we can get this platform moving. Palm is obviously taking their time advancing anything. HP and HS could team up and hack the OS to allow all the added features and still run the current stuff (maybe even emulated since the ARM processors are so fast). It would become the standard if it was completed soon enough before OS 5, which shouldn't be very hard to do at this rate . Fall 2002, sigh, what do they do with themselves over at Palm?
    <A HREF="http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_69783.html"TARGET=_BLANK><IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/lenn0nhead/hvcslogo181x75.jpg"BORDER=1></A>
  19. #19  
    What about HP adopting a subset of Linux for their next PDA.
    Desktop Linux has an emulator for Windows programs.
    Why not an emulator for current Palm apps?
    I haven't used Linux nor have I written programs for the Palm platform, so my question may have no merit.
  20. #20  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson
    Nevermind.
    I did get your point..!!

    I'd also like to see PALM OS on Jornada (current) hardware, And it would be really neat if they could get it to do in Palm OS what it currently does in WinCE, but it would be the same problem as if Apple came out with an Intel version of the Mac's OS.. Real kool, not (binary) compatible with anything... I just don't see it happening for many reasons, if not for marketing reasons alone.. A non-Palm (binary) compatible , Palm OS machine.. Every palm application would have to be recompiled to be able to run on it.. it's wouldn't fly in the market place.

    Now, what I COULD see happening is a WinCE PALM OS emulator (POSE for wince), running on a WinCE Jornada ... that might happen... It would give the Jornada the option of running either WinCE applications or PalmOS based ones (however emulated and possibly a bit slower than native CE applications)..
    "One of the most important things you learn from the internet is that there is no ‘them’ out there. It’s just an awful lot of ‘us’." -- Douglas Adams
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