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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by treofun
    I feel bad for all the people that are still hangin' on to Palm OS in this day and age. Sure its "simple" to use, but for me, thats just where it goes wrong. It's too simple, almost dumbed down version of an OS.

    True that WM5 phones aren't as "one handed" like the treo's but I think they'll get there soon. Like the new Treo's that'll be out soon, Treo form factor but with WM5! But its too bad Palm lost my interest already.
    I wouldnt feel sorry for anyone if what they have works for them.

    I feel sorry for you because you feel sorry.
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by treofun
    I feel bad for all the people that are still hangin' on to Palm OS in this day and age. Sure its "simple" to use, but for me, thats just where it goes wrong. It's too simple, almost dumbed down version of an OS.

    True that WM5 phones aren't as "one handed" like the treo's but I think they'll get there soon. Like the new Treo's that'll be out soon, Treo form factor but with WM5! But its too bad Palm lost my interest already.
    Ummmm.....The 700w has the Treo form factor and WM5 and it's been out since January.....all the trades said "best WM5 phone ever....but pales next to the 650". I gott agree.

    I was at a hockey game and sat in front of a couple and she had a 700w.....we both enjoying a home team winning and each holding a drink (hers beer, mine soda). We are both snapping pictures and e-mailing them to our kids....she notices that I am doing this one handed in half the time it takes her to do it two handed after repeatedly handing her beer to her sweetie.

    In the 2nd intermission she starts asking me how I was doing that so easy.....I gave her the 650....after a few minutes she said "Glad I ran into you, I have a day left on my free trial....this thing going back tomorrow morning"....that was the end of April.....I suggested she wait for the 700p

    A device that uses WM needs to have 2 - 4 times the RAM of the Palm OS equivalent....twice for the "Joe Executive" and 4 fo trhe "Joe Technogeek". If you solve that problem.....the next question to ask is "Do you drive and often need to use the phone ?"....or.....do you need to use the phone / PDA one handed more than once or twice a week.....if the answer is yes, slide out KB's gonna be a PITA.

    I think the 700w and the 6700 are excellent devices if you are a NYC resident and your travel take splace on a bus or in a taxi. In LA or in da suburbs...or if ya attend sports events and / or drink ber, one handed usage is a must !

    Look at it this way .....how many "Editors Choice" awards has the 6700 / 700w gotten ? ... I ahven't seen any. How many has the 650/700p gotten ? .... I'd say 30-40. For me, I wanna minimize the fluff ....I wanna minimize the "wow look at that" stuff....to me it's all about "hitting the buzzer".....do the task, get it done and slap the buzzer. Kinda like Windows Vista.....all the pretty stuff may be good for impressing ya friends but it slows the machine down, makes you slow down as they eyes / brain need more time to filter it and is counterproductive.
  3. Haggar's Avatar
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    Ummmm.....The 700w has the Treo form factor and WM5 and it's been out since January.....all the trades said "best WM5 phone ever....but pales next to the 650". I gott agree.

    I was at a hockey game and sat in front of a couple and she had a 700w.....we both enjoying a home team winning and each holding a drink (hers beer, mine soda). We are both snapping pictures and e-mailing them to our kids....she notices that I am doing this one handed in half the time it takes her to do it two handed after repeatedly handing her beer to her sweetie.
    Jack - you painted a very vivid picture there. Seriously, this would be an awesome commerical to run on TV, wouldn't it?

    You see the mom trying so hard to snap all these pics and mail them off...and she's just in PAIN that she can't do it fast enough. All the while that guy in the back row is smiling...shooting off pics left and right...jumping up to cheer his team on...and talking to everyone around. Snap snap snap. And mom's just sitting there staring at the screen and tap-tap-tapping with bigger and bigger frowns.

    Unfortunately with a $400 device you can't have a Mean Joe Greene moment where the guy hands her his Treo and all is better...but I can still see this being a VERY effective commerical...it illustrates the total frustration I feel when using my 6700.
    Luminary? You've got to be kidding!
  4. #24  
    Hey you pitch it and I'll cut ya in for 15%
  5. jlczl's Avatar
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    #25  
    I challenge you to take ME on! Too bad we don't live in the same town, we could compare which device coupled with which owner would be faster. It would be a much fairer challenge. No doubt that lady wasn't very adept at using her phone (can't blame her since she's only had it a couple of weeks at most since she was still in her "trial period").
    Last edited by jlczl; 07/19/2006 at 12:35 PM.
    Palm VII-Palm Vx-Palm M125-Clie T615-Sony NZ90-Sony NX80-Toshiba E800-Sony NZ90 (again)-Treo 600-HP 6315-Treo 650-Moto MPX220-SX66-Treo 650 (again)-QTek 9100-HP6515-Cingular 8125-Moto Q (10 days)-Cingular 8125 (again)-Nokia 9300-Cingular 2125 & Nokia E62-ETen M600+-Cingular 3125-Treo 750 & Samsung Blackjack-Cingular 8525-iPhone-Moto Q9-at&t Tilt-iPhone3G-Nokia E71-HTC Diamond-Blackberry Bold-at&t Fuze-SE Xperia X1a-Treo Pro.

    Be very, very quiet. I'm gonna catch me a rhinoceros.
  6. #26  
    Well ya could look at any of the published Treo 700w reviews which inevitably conclude with one or more of the following:

    "....it still takes more taps w/ WM5".
    "....best WM5 device out there but still pales in in one handed usage compared to the 650"
    "....suffers from poor one handed integration"
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    Well ya could look at any of the published Treo 700w reviews which inevitably conclude with one or more of the following:

    "....it still takes more taps w/ WM5".
    "....best WM5 device out there but still pales in in one handed usage compared to the 650"
    "....suffers from poor one handed integration"
    who is the sample? seriously now, i've had the 600, 650, and the 700w. i used them all with one-handed fashion. never once did i think it suffered from "poor one handed integration."

    it really isn't that hard.
  8. Haggar's Avatar
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez
    who is the sample? seriously now, i've had the 600, 650, and the 700w. i used them all with one-handed fashion. never once did i think it suffered from "poor one handed integration."

    it really isn't that hard.
    I don't think anyone is saying its "hard" -- just cumbersome. The 700w is a bit of an exception when it comes to comparing WM5 to POS because Palm has done some tinkering with a portion of the interface to make it work better with one hand. Unfortunately, they didn't write the OS so unless you're using "treofied" software, WM5 becomes tedious and cumbersome.

    I think I want to write a little WM5 ap that simply displays a big red target on the screen with the words "smash forehead here" under the target. Anybody got a catchy name for this ap?
    Luminary? You've got to be kidding!
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez
    who is the sample? seriously now, i've had the 600, 650, and the 700w. i used them all with one-handed fashion. never once did i think it suffered from "poor one handed integration."

    it really isn't that hard.
    I don't find driving a car w/o power steering "hard" but that doesn't make it as easy as one w/ PS. I have to agree with the review below which is echoed by the 20 or 30 reviews I have read on the 700w

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1911100,00.asp

    The most usable one-handed Pocket PC, the Palm Treo 700w, will be welcome in Microsoft-dominated workplaces looking for an e-mail-oriented phone that works with the latest Exchange servers. We can't recommend it as enthusiastically for individual consumers, because it isn't quite as easy to use as the Treo 650 and doesn't take advantage of all the power the Windows Mobile platform has to offer. The Treo 700w is a slightly uncomfortable compromise, but one you can accept cheerfully if your IT department chooses it for you.

    You can compare the Treo 700w against its predecessor, the 650, or against other Windows Mobile handhelds. The Palm OS used in the Treo 650 still requires fewer taps and clicks than Windows Mobile, uses less battery power in PDA mode, and feels zippier with the 312-MHz processor.
    I think WM will get there....eventually.....look how long it took them to get to NT$'s reliability and speed.

    But like the NT4 box serving as my office server....no WinXP box can come anywhere near to close in matching its speed on identical hardware. All that fluff comes at a cost....ya wanna run WM5 and Garnet on the same hardware, the fluffy one is gonna have trouble keeping up.
  10. jlczl's Avatar
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    #30  
    Here's a catchy name for your new app Haggar:

    "MS PUSHH". (POS Users Smash Head Here).
    Last edited by jlczl; 07/19/2006 at 12:42 PM.
    Palm VII-Palm Vx-Palm M125-Clie T615-Sony NZ90-Sony NX80-Toshiba E800-Sony NZ90 (again)-Treo 600-HP 6315-Treo 650-Moto MPX220-SX66-Treo 650 (again)-QTek 9100-HP6515-Cingular 8125-Moto Q (10 days)-Cingular 8125 (again)-Nokia 9300-Cingular 2125 & Nokia E62-ETen M600+-Cingular 3125-Treo 750 & Samsung Blackjack-Cingular 8525-iPhone-Moto Q9-at&t Tilt-iPhone3G-Nokia E71-HTC Diamond-Blackberry Bold-at&t Fuze-SE Xperia X1a-Treo Pro.

    Be very, very quiet. I'm gonna catch me a rhinoceros.
  11. Haggar's Avatar
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by jlczl
    Here's a catchy name for your new app Haggar:

    "MS PUSHH". (POS Users Smash Head Here).
    Well...you win. That's the name. I made this decision based on 2 extremely important criteria.

    1) Orginality

    2) It was the only suggestion.

    P.S. I just went to the Sprint store tonight and had them deactivate my 6700 and transfer the ESN back to my Treo 650. The Sprint rep thought I was daft... "dude...you can't be serious..." starts...Anyone who calls me dude in a professional setting loses my respect. Nonetheless, I am a VERY HAPPY Treo user once again.

    I think that was an 80's tune... "Nothing Compares To You...".
    Luminary? You've got to be kidding!
  12. #32  
    I'm a new Treo 700p user. My last phone was a Nokia candy bar and my last PDA was a Palm Vx. (I also bought the very first PalmPilot back in 96). I always have liked the Palm OS.

    I still think it's a tough choice between the PPC-6700 and the 700p. Here's my thoughts on the differences:

    Palm 700p PROs
    + Clearly better for one-handed operation
    + Higher resolution screen
    + Uses Palm apps I already use and like
    + Can use light, nimble Palm Desktop instead of heavy, slow Outlook (which I dislike)
    + Lots of 3rd-party apps that I know about

    PPC-6700 PROs
    + Can use Skype
    + Keyboard better for two-handed use (personal preference)
    + Physically bigger screen
    + WiFi
    + Pocket IE better than Blazer (perhaps, MUCH better)
    + Supports Flash content on web pages
    + Nicer 5-way jog control
    + Handy auto-complete for typing words
    + Dedicated camera and web buttons
    + Camera has a built-in flash

    Palm 700p CONs
    - I miss Grafitti a lot
    - Note Pad (note-taking program) missing for no apparent reason
    - Voice Pad missing for no apparent reason
    - Nagging fear that Palm OS is dead
    - Poor data exchange between Palm Desktop and other PIMs
    - Some clunkiness in the built-in apps
    - Easy to crash the machine with 3rd-Party apps

    PPC 6700 CONs
    - Not eager to have another Microsoft product
    - I've read consistently that Windows Mobile is not very elegant or easy-to-use day-to-day
    - Screen not as bright or as high a resolution as 700p's
    - Definitely not one-handed friendly
    - Shorter battery life

    Some of the PROs/CONs obviously carry more weight than others. And since I've owned a Palm in the past and own the 700p, I obviously know more about its benefits and limitations than I do about the PPC-6700.

    I had a couple hours to play with the PPC-6700 at a Sprint store. Here's some of the things I found:

    * Both phones had full-bars signals (not surprising, given it's a Sprint store they'd probably make sure the signal was flawless). I went to Broadband Reports' mobile speed test page. My Treo 700p shows a 300kbps rate. The 6700 showed a 720kbps rate. (Multiple tests, various sizes.) This is consistent with my experience outside the store. Whether it's at an airport or at home, the Blazer browser never showed more than 300kbps, and usually was at 120-170kbps. However, when I tethered the 700p to my PC and ran the Speakeasy speed test, I achieved a 425kbps rate on 3 bars. [Note: I later found that setting memory limit for storing pages to zero on the 700p increases the reported speed considerably.]

    * I am not able to do online banking with my 700p. When I go to my bank's web site with either Blazer or Opera Mini 2, it doesn't take my login. The bank site worked beautifully with Pocket IE on the PPC-6700.

    * I logged into my Orb page with both devices. The web-based Orb control panel looked just amazing on the PPC. All the buttons lined up nicely and it generally was more pleasant to view and navigate. However, the actual streaming media experience was smoother on the Treo 700p. I did not have the time to test this multiple times or with other streaming media services. One thing I did like about the 6700 was that in landscape mode, the 3:2 aspect ratio video fits the screen perfectly, and is larger than on the Palm.

    * For two-handed typing, I found the 6700 to be very comfortable. The buttons fit my thumbs nicely and the device was easy to keep stable in my hand. Let's face it, the slide-out keyboard is way kool, even if the phone itself doesn't fit quite as nicely in the hand as the Treo. When I am using the Treo with two hands, it tends to be a little unstable depending on what keys I need to press.

    * I keep telling myself that the Treo has a higher resolution display. But to be honest, Windows Mobile seems to make much better use of the screen real estate so it "feels" like you're viewing more information. Also, the Palm generally has white backgrounds and dumpy graphics. While I'm in a call I feel like the plain-jane buttons and uninspiring layout have transported me back to 1996. Windows mobile, however, is a much sexier screen in almost all settings. A pretty graphic background is part of the theme for most of the apps.

    The final issue is the "multitasking" ability. There are some Palm applications which do run in the background. PocketTunes is one of them. My IM client, Mundu, is another. However, if you are running PocketTunes and try to do anything, the music stutters and you will cringe until everything catches up. In Mundu, sometimes I receive an IM in the background and sometimes I don't. Also, I find it a little irritating that I cannot do something like browse the web while talking on the phone.

    I was not able to test the multitasking prowess of the 6700. Does anyone who has one of these babies know whether you can use data and voice at the same time?

    Hope this information helps people make a decision. Just re-reading what I wrote it seems that I actually like the 6700 more than the Palm. I guess that I am going with the Palm for emotional/sentimental reasons, but also that the "whole" is sometimes more than the sum of the parts. Nevertheless I plan to check out the 6700 a little more during my first 30 days and see if I'm ready for a change.
    Last edited by MerryOtter; 07/29/2006 at 12:45 PM.
  13. #33  
    I was not able to test the multitasking prowess of the 6700. Does anyone who has one of these babies know whether you can use data and voice at the same time?
    I don't have a 6700, but I do know that you can't be online using the Ev-DO/1xRTT connection and be on the phone at the same time; this is a limitation of CDMA technology (so this goes for any current CDMA phones). However, if you're in a wifi hotspot, you can be on the phone and get online using wifi. Great post btw.
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Trevante
    I don't have a 6700, but I do know that you can't be online using the Ev-DO/1xRTT connection and be on the phone at the same time; this is a limitation of CDMA technology (so this goes for any current CDMA phones). However, if you're in a wifi hotspot, you can be on the phone and get online using wifi. Great post btw.
    *COUGH* Wifi
    *COUGH*Ev-DO Rev A. (not yet available and I can't wait until it is)

    If you have wifi surfing while on the phone works very well. Best to do it with a headset as the speaker phone is mediocre at best. I thoroughly enjoy my 6700.
  15. #35  
    I've seen a lot of people talk about how the 6700's one-handed use isn't up to the Treo's. Out of the box, that's true. However, I've managed to add a few choice third party apps to my 6700 that, combined with some button reassignments, make my 6700 just as usable one-handed as the Treo I had for a year.

    Would there be any interest in seeing a Treo expert's take on enhancing 6700 usability?
    Jeff Kirvin
    Author of Between Heaven and Hell, a different kind of SF novel.
    Get it at eReader http://www.ereader.com/product/detail/5493
    or Fictionwise http://www.fictionwise.com/ebooks/eBook29869.htm

    For the sequel, check out eSerials at http://www.serialfiction.net

    Listen to the Maximum Geek Podcast!
    http://www.solomedia.org/podcast/
  16. #36  
    um, sure; why not (but on another thread)
  17. #37  
    I'm in the same dilemma now. As I am typing this, I have the 6700 right in front of me. It's a beautiful device, but for some reason, the reception does not seem quite as strong as the 700p. At least not for me. Another thing I find annoying is the lack of visibility in direct sunlight. I find myself holding my hand over the screen just view it when it's sunny outside. Other than that, I really enjoyed using the 6700.
  18. #38  
    Two addendums...

    PPC-6700 PRO
    + Able to view Flash content on web pages

    Treo 700p
    + Found that by setting "Set memory limit for storing pages" to zero (Menu-> Options-> Preferences-> Advanced) I was able to get the reported speeds for the mobile speed test to double. It's now reporting within about 75% to 80% of the desktop speed test.
  19. jlczl's Avatar
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    #39  
    Attention Jeff Kirvin:

    There has been plenty of posts on this forum that clearly show how easy one-handed use on these PPC's has become. There has been many posts about "Smartskey", button re-assignment, larger custom dial pads, effective use of MS Voice Command and Voice Commander, and other programs such as "New Menu" and "SoftKey". All of this though is not enough for many of the Palm loyalists who are quick to discount how effective these programs are.
    Palm VII-Palm Vx-Palm M125-Clie T615-Sony NZ90-Sony NX80-Toshiba E800-Sony NZ90 (again)-Treo 600-HP 6315-Treo 650-Moto MPX220-SX66-Treo 650 (again)-QTek 9100-HP6515-Cingular 8125-Moto Q (10 days)-Cingular 8125 (again)-Nokia 9300-Cingular 2125 & Nokia E62-ETen M600+-Cingular 3125-Treo 750 & Samsung Blackjack-Cingular 8525-iPhone-Moto Q9-at&t Tilt-iPhone3G-Nokia E71-HTC Diamond-Blackberry Bold-at&t Fuze-SE Xperia X1a-Treo Pro.

    Be very, very quiet. I'm gonna catch me a rhinoceros.
  20. #40  
    Ah, point taken. Well, I might write up an article for Writing On Your Palm anyway.
    Jeff Kirvin
    Author of Between Heaven and Hell, a different kind of SF novel.
    Get it at eReader http://www.ereader.com/product/detail/5493
    or Fictionwise http://www.fictionwise.com/ebooks/eBook29869.htm

    For the sequel, check out eSerials at http://www.serialfiction.net

    Listen to the Maximum Geek Podcast!
    http://www.solomedia.org/podcast/
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