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  1.    #1  
    Haggar raised a good point, which got buried in another thread - there will not be a "Treo killer" device. As I've noted for a long time, there is a slew of new devices, mostly WM5, already released, in the pipeline, or on the horizon. Add to this Nokia's new E61/E62 series, and it's beginning to look like the long hard winter of Palm's existence. HTC just keeps running out models like Sony used to with the Clie series, but they shop it world wide for greater effect:

    http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/02/b...-the-pipeline/

    Some folks question why I always seem to be bashing Palm - they are wrong. Palm was once the crown jewel (next to Apple) of the "we can do it better without Windoze" crowd, and now they have lapsed into corporate incrementalism for short term profit. The new 700 offers NOTHING more than EV-DO over the 650. No original design development in 4 years (okay, if you count re-arranging button on the front of the Treo, then some). No workable WiFi soultions (an SD card sticking out the top of a single model IS NOT WIFI - its merely a technical demo).

    I want Palm to not only survive, but thrive. Unfortunately, instead of acting like Handspring, they're being more like Commodore (what do you mean the C64 is looking a little long in the tooth?)
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  2. NRG
    NRG is offline
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    #2  
    Fanboy, just like the rest of us.
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Fanboy, just like the rest of us.
    LOL. The fanboy in me left when my shiny new Cingular Treo 650 had no better voice/reception quality than the Sprint Treo 650 I gave up for it.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  4. #4  
    "My E61 killed my Treo a long time ago" .
    Treo's days are numbered."Some unknown device will kill it soon ".
  5. #5  
    I am happy with Treo 650, I will switch when Vista WM6 appears. Current 5 is just to slow and clunky.
  6. #6  
    wm5 killed palm for me. I loved the treo, and it has a lot of followers, which is why I believe they didn't make many changes for the 700. how many posts have you read here about people trying another device and comin back to the treo for the keyboard on front and design. palm is afraid to change something that has worked for the most part.

    for me personally, I love the endless possibilities that come with wm5 and the design of the HTC products.
    Nexus One
    HTC Inspire "4G"
    HP Veer "4G"
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    Haggar raised a good point, which got buried in another thread - there will not be a "Treo killer" device. As I've noted for a long time, there is a slew of new devices, mostly WM5, already released, in the pipeline, or on the horizon. Add to this Nokia's new E61/E62 series, and it's beginning to look like the long hard winter of Palm's existence. HTC just keeps running out models like Sony used to with the Clie series, but they shop it world wide for greater effect:

    http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/02/b...-the-pipeline/

    Some folks question why I always seem to be bashing Palm - they are wrong. Palm was once the crown jewel (next to Apple) of the "we can do it better without Windoze" crowd, and now they have lapsed into corporate incrementalism for short term profit. The new 700 offers NOTHING more than EV-DO over the 650. No original design development in 4 years (okay, if you count re-arranging button on the front of the Treo, then some). No workable WiFi soultions (an SD card sticking out the top of a single model IS NOT WIFI - its merely a technical demo).

    I want Palm to not only survive, but thrive. Unfortunately, instead of acting like Handspring, they're being more like Commodore (what do you mean the C64 is looking a little long in the tooth?)
    Amen, Amen and Amen. All of us here were Palm fanboys and girls (or in some cases the jury is still out) at one point. All of us would like to see them regain their place at the top of the handheld heap with a world-class phone that incorporates all of the functions we've come to expect in a $600 device. In my opinion, this will not happen and many of us will leave Palm, just as we left our PDA only devices as better products were offered. I for one am saddened by this, but Palm has disappointed me one too many times.
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by geatches
    Amen, Amen and Amen. All of us here were Palm fanboys and girls (or in some cases the jury is still out) at one point. All of us would like to see them regain their place at the top of the handheld heap with a world-class phone that incorporates all of the functions we've come to expect in a $600 device. In my opinion, this will not happen and many of us will leave Palm, just as we left our PDA only devices as better products were offered. I for one am saddened by this, but Palm has disappointed me one too many times.
    ____________________________________
    "Consensus is the absence of Leadership" - Margaret Thatcher
    I love that signature, because it speaks volumes to Palm. The Treo line has become a consensus product - it's what the current owner set "wants" so there is no leadership from Palm. Think about the buzz when Hawkins teased the world holding the undisclosed Treo 600 at an unrelated press conference. People were making mock-ups of the damn thing, guessing about the parts out of sight in his hand. At that time, it was a revolutionary product because it was a fusion of BB and cell phone in a small (for then) package.

    Who can get jazzed now about the 700 series (other than ultimate fanboys/girls)? Lead, follow, or get out of the way. I'm afraid that Palm is on the last course.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  9. #9  
    Neat discussion you all have here. I see two sides though.

    One side says that Palm is doing something right by not changing a thing and newer and better products are not unseating it in the hands of those money grubbing consumers who really like the Treo despite its clunkyness.

    The other side says that Palm shhould have done more to push convergance and this market by making a Treo that does rival the feature set of many of the PDA phones out now and in the last year.

    The only issue that I see with the latter point though is that Palm moves when it is most profitable, not necessarly most innovative-need to move. That is why in some respects I don't see the Treo design changing much till Inventec gets their hands on things, and even then some things just may not change much.

    I'd speak about the software side, but we all understand that a 4 year old OS still holding someting of a battle against one that is a year old in WM does not mean much else except that no one is really changing things.....arrrgh.
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.
  10. jlczl's Avatar
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    #10  
    My Cingular 8125 killed my Treo 650. It has almost "literally" buried it since it is covered by a layer of dust in my closet.
    Palm VII-Palm Vx-Palm M125-Clie T615-Sony NZ90-Sony NX80-Toshiba E800-Sony NZ90 (again)-Treo 600-HP 6315-Treo 650-Moto MPX220-SX66-Treo 650 (again)-QTek 9100-HP6515-Cingular 8125-Moto Q (10 days)-Cingular 8125 (again)-Nokia 9300-Cingular 2125 & Nokia E62-ETen M600+-Cingular 3125-Treo 750 & Samsung Blackjack-Cingular 8525-iPhone-Moto Q9-at&t Tilt-iPhone3G-Nokia E71-HTC Diamond-Blackberry Bold-at&t Fuze-SE Xperia X1a-Treo Pro.

    Be very, very quiet. I'm gonna catch me a rhinoceros.
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Antoine of MMM
    Neat discussion you all have here. I see two sides though.

    One side says that Palm is doing something right by not changing a thing and newer and better products are not unseating it in the hands of those money grubbing consumers who really like the Treo despite its clunkyness...
    I don't think that's right. It's only anectdotal, but I see more varied equipment out there (even HP's) and many "geeks" are defecting to greener pastures. By the end of this year, it will start looking even tougher for Palm (maybe even sooner if Motorola's projections for the "Q" are even 1/4 right).

    I know, a lot of people around here are sneering at Moto's projections, but as a major public company, they know the risks of forward looking comments even more than most, and that was a bold projection.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  12. #12  
    Antoine. have to ask what meds you are on. Palm has taken the same Japanese sales philosophy of just selling to you incremental updated products based only on what the users tell them was missing from the last model and still gets away with only addressing a postion of these items. If you wish to continue giving them $600 every 12 months go ahead just realize that is adding $50 a month to your "real" cell phone bill. Frankly I do not get this Chinese water torture approach being accepted by intelligent users no matter how big of fans they are. One thing I can promise you is the corporate market will not fall for this line.

    dstrauss makes great points but leaves out the real issue. Palm was a software/hardware company, then a hardware company, then a software/hardware company (with the purchase of PalmSource), then a hardware company (with the sale of PalmSource), now they have a contract with Access for ALPS (guaranteed $$ even if they never use it) and rumors in this forum that they are working on their own LinuxOS to possibly compete with ALPS. This is craziness! How long will the marketplace and the stockholders put up with this Baskin Robbins flavor of the month business plan? Not long. They need to pick a battle and see it through. Has no one in Palm management rea the Art of War?

    Now rumor is Microsoft getting into the handheld market and becoming more of a hardware company for devices like Treos and iPods. I think the likelyhood is of MS buying a controlling interest in Palm and forcing their hand rather then buying it outright. Second best idea is them to lock up a great deal of HTC's innovative designs by buying first right of refusal to any new HTC designs. MS and HTC have a very cozy relationship and MS is not known for great past hardware design.

    Palm or MS or HTC or Apple or someone has to come out with the next BIG thing. There has to be better efficiency of battery. If Citizen can power a chronograph wristwatch for months on a few hours of sunlight through a watch face solar cell then think how cool it would be for one of these companies to figure out how to add this technology to a Treo like device so the screen literally recharges the phone instead of draining it. Other advances in battery technology make it possible to delivery greater power. Memory is the second issue. There are proven ways to expand the memory well beyond what they provide today. Look at the iPod Nano for instance with 4 GB of memory and incredible battery life in such a small design. Third is the next rendition of Bluetooth and modularization of the design. Creating a case/sleeve to slip the device into to give it capabilities you and I have never dreamed of. Like a docking station to a laptop was in 1997. Lastly any device which does not have wifi is not a convergence device. Maybe in 2003 it was but in 2006 it is NOT!

    THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX SOMEONE!!!

    Forget increased speed for now as the processors are usually outpacing the data connections and the speed of memory.

    If you want my $600 you had better listen. If you just want to run your business in the ground then go ahead and do so but don't invite me to your corporate funeral. I may send flowers but I won't be attending.
  13. Haggar's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    I don't think that's right. It's only anectdotal, but I see more varied equipment out there (even HP's) and many "geeks" are defecting to greener pastures.
    I will 100% agree that the GEEKS are defecting...but that doesn't mean the mass market is defecting - at least not yet.

    I am very curious to see what Palm's next moves are. I'm still willing to give them a pass on the rest of this year...I think that any company that has gone through as much management turmoil as Palm/PalmOne/Handspring has is bound to be "off" a bit. But the NEXT generation of Treo has to be absolutely steller and MUST show up by the middle of next year if Palm has ANY hope of being anything other than a "me to" Windows Mobile platform in 3 years...
  14. #14  
    Moto is seriously pushing the Q. They have opened up a developer website, the official Q website has a user-supported wiki and Moto is also opening up the Q-experience store.

    They have high ambitions, but they are also doing a lot to achieve them.

    Surur
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggar
    I'm still willing to give them a pass on the rest of this year...
    They've gotten quite a few passes lately: 18 months between products, wifi and the many oft debated goodies they neglected (or can't offer with fruckingarnet). No more passes, no soup for you.
    Last edited by geatches; 06/03/2006 at 01:46 PM.
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtreosexual
    "My E61 killed my Treo a long time ago" .
    I agree with that statement 100%.
    Avatar is the license plate of my 95 White Ford Bronco



    HTC TyTn II<- Current Favorite PDA phone
    CDMA the past;GSM the future
  17. #17  
    I showed my wife the E61, and she was not interested at all, mainly due to the lack of a touch screen, She feels having a touch screen is like having a mouse on a desktop computer, and that navigating by keyboard is archaic. I also showed her a Treo 650, and she did not like that one because of the size of the keys, which she felt were too small. I guess she likes her HTC Magician, despite all the trouble it gives her sometimes.

    Surur
  18. Silver5's Avatar
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    #18  
    The Magician was the reason I got rid of my Treos. I bought the first one two months after getting my first 650. Within a week or two the Treo had been sold. I missed the keyboard though, so I bought another, only to prefer the Magician and sell the 650...again.

    People really bash WM sometimes (resets, memory hog, battery life...etc) but the Treo had as many, if not many more, problems. That made the difference for me. The Jam was rock solid.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Silver5
    People really bash WM sometimes (resets, memory hog, battery life...etc) but the Treo had as many, if not many more, problems. That made the difference for me. The Jam was rock solid.
    who does this? WM5 is sooo stable, doesnt lag for me, i have plenty memory, and it never resets.
    Nexus One
    HTC Inspire "4G"
    HP Veer "4G"
  20. #20  
    Here is an interesting article from MSMobiles.com.

    Windows Mobile wins marketing war with Symbian

    Nokia E61 (flat smartphone with QWERTY keyboard and powered by Symbian OS) and Nokia N91 (smartphone with hard disk and powered by Symbian OS) are affordable, very good when it comes to connectivity (both UMTS and Wi-Fi on board) and are already on sale, but nowhere, where N-Series phones are advertised there is "Symbian" name mentioned! The same is with other manufacturers, that use Symbian: they promote their own brands and in all public advertisements Symbian is not mentioned - it all reflects big fragmentation of Symbian OS where incompatibility between various numerous sub-versions and sub-platforms is big. Situation is drastically different when it comes to Windows Mobile:

    ... because not only manufacturers and wireless carriers mention clearly in advertisements that given phones are powered by Windows Mobile (see here for example: video recording of TV advertisement of Motorola Q, where Windows Mobile is mentioned!), but also Microsoft itself is advertising Windows Mobile in public places, not just in trains but also at airports:





    ... and even inside of airplanes both in on-board magazines (not available outside of the airplane):


    (translation to English of texts from image above: "Close your seatbelt. Open your Word document" and "With Windows Mobile and Word Mobile you decide yourself when, where and how you are working")

    ... but also directly as advertisements on the back of seats, so passengers must look at these advertisements during their whole flight:


    (translation to English of text from image above: "How can you check your Outlook Calendar now? Just take it from your pocket!")



    (translation to English of text from image above: "Are you changing your Excel sheet? Or are you just waiting for landing?")

    Conclusion: Microsoft (in example mentioned above: Microsoft Germany) is doing good work at promoting Windows Mobile brand, while Symbian for most users is totally unknown. Not only Windows Mobile is superior to Symbian technologically, but Symbian is very fragmented (several UIQ platforms, several Series 60, Series 90, etc platforms) and practically speaking users are better off just buying Windows Mobile. Since World Cup comes to Germany next week, and several million (!) visitors are coming to Germany, because of this event (World Cup is the biggest sport event in the world) it is good to see that Microsoft Germany is doing excellent job with advertising of Windows Mobile!
    http://msmobiles.com/news.php/5255.html

    MSMobiles are rather rabid, but this an interesting article which may cast some light on why WM is more popular than POS in Europe.

    From an interview with John Starkweather of MED Division at Microsoft, the PRPRPR $assault$ $will$ $just$ $intensify$ $next$ $year$.

    John: Yep. So, marketing is definitely important. Its the group I belong to, and we take it very, very seriously. For your first question about actual advertising, this year we had our largest to date, campaign that was really focused more on the person who is going to use a device, who also has a job that may use email, that may use Outlook, that may use other applications. We put a lot of money behind that, and next year, were actually taking the dollar figure up about five times. The amounts are significant were talking lots of digits.
    Microsoft's target is not POS or even Symbian, its Nokia, and with their partners they are rallying the troops to take them down. POS may just be collateral damage.

    Surur
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