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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    That'a so strange compared to my 8125. In my pocket, it stays off until I touch the power button on top. If I put it in my pocket, a quick tap on the top button protects it from button and screen presses (saves battery too) - is there nothing simialr on teh 6700?


    You ain't getting that close to my back pocket from a group hug!
    I only had pants-boys issue happen once to me. For the few seconds the phone stays powered on it can and will redial with the center button pushed. I just learned to tap the top power button before sliding it back into the case also.
  2. #82  
    I like the look of the MyPal from Surur's post. That one does everything I need.
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by gharrod
    I like the look of the MyPal from Surur's post. That one does everything I need.
    Thats not a phone though.

    Surur
  4. #84  
    damn, your right. the bluetooth 2.0 tipped me up. is that only for audio? I like the 802.11 b/g and the big real estate on the screen.
  5. #85  
    Bluetooth is standard, and 2.0 is whats current now. You might want to connect your device with a phone or headphones or a keyboard etc etc. Big screens and phone devices dont go together (unless you have an HTC Universal)

    Surur
  6. #86  
    Variety of hardware, yes. But the software is still WM. There are good aspects to WM, but usability/efficiency is not one of them, IMO. Supposedly they're working on an all new user experience for an upcoming version of WM. I'm anxious to see what that's all about.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  7. Haggar's Avatar
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    #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    Variety of hardware, yes. But the software is still WM. There are good aspects to WM, but usability/efficiency is not one of them, IMO. Supposedly they're working on an all new user experience for an upcoming version of WM. I'm anxious to see what that's all about.
    If I wasn't already bald, I'd be pulling my hair out. I hate the fact that any time I want to do anything with the phone on my 6700 it's a 5 step process.

    Turn on the 6700 -- I'm at the today screen. Hit the green phone button and it brings up the phone pad. Dial a number...like voicemail - which like to use while on speaker phone...and then have to click the "call status" button to get to the screen to turn on the speakerphone...then click the "keypad" button to go back to the keypad so I can type in my password and navigate the phone prompt. Someone walks in my office or I want to listen to a voicemail and it's "call status" again to turn off the speakerphone. It's just clumsy. It's do-able, but clumsy.

    I'm using Voice Commander so dailing numbers is okay if I don't mind saying "Call Jennifer XXXX at home" then waiting for VC to say "Call Jennifer XXX at home" and then I say "yes" and then it takes a few seconds to complete the call. But the "regular" speed dial sucks. I have to HIT a speed dial button and then select it from the list.

    I love the Treo phone system...all the buttons are RIGHT THERE. All the speed dials can be keyboard driven. I honestly have even tried keyboard speed dials with the 6700 since the keyboard is HIDDEN when I'm using it as a phone 99% of the time.

    Gripes about the phone aside - it's a very powerful PDA. It's about as close as you can get to a tiny screen laptop replacement. Obviously the low resolution and slow processor mean it isn't a TRUE laptop replacement, but it's pretty dang close.

    But as I've said before...the Treo 700P is a FAR better phone than ANY WM5 device I have seen. At least, that's true out the box...we'll see what kind of dialers I can dig up...
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggar
    If I wasn't already bald, I'd be pulling my hair out. I hate the fact that any time I want to do anything with the phone on my 6700 it's a 5 step process.

    Turn on the 6700 -- I'm at the today screen. Hit the green phone button and it brings up the phone pad. Dial a number...like voicemail - which like to use while on speaker phone...and then have to click the "call status" button to get to the screen to turn on the speakerphone...then click the "keypad" button to go back to the keypad so I can type in my password and navigate the phone prompt. Someone walks in my office or I want to listen to a voicemail and it's "call status" again to turn off the speakerphone. It's just clumsy. It's do-able, but clumsy.

    I'm using Voice Commander so dailing numbers is okay if I don't mind saying "Call Jennifer XXXX at home" then waiting for VC to say "Call Jennifer XXX at home" and then I say "yes" and then it takes a few seconds to complete the call. But the "regular" speed dial sucks. I have to HIT a speed dial button and then select it from the list.

    I love the Treo phone system...all the buttons are RIGHT THERE. All the speed dials can be keyboard driven. I honestly have even tried keyboard speed dials with the 6700 since the keyboard is HIDDEN when I'm using it as a phone 99% of the time.

    Gripes about the phone aside - it's a very powerful PDA. It's about as close as you can get to a tiny screen laptop replacement. Obviously the low resolution and slow processor mean it isn't a TRUE laptop replacement, but it's pretty dang close.

    But as I've said before...the Treo 700P is a FAR better phone than ANY WM5 device I have seen. At least, that's true out the box...we'll see what kind of dialers I can dig up...
    Now about the WiFi....
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  9.    #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggar
    If I wasn't already bald, I'd be pulling my hair out. I hate the fact that any time I want to do anything with the phone on my 6700 it's a 5 step process.

    Turn on the 6700 -- I'm at the today screen. Hit the green phone button and it brings up the phone pad. Dial a number...like voicemail - which like to use while on speaker phone...and then have to click the "call status" button to get to the screen to turn on the speakerphone...then click the "keypad" button to go back to the keypad so I can type in my password and navigate the phone prompt. Someone walks in my office or I want to listen to a voicemail and it's "call status" again to turn off the speakerphone. It's just clumsy. It's do-able, but clumsy.

    I'm using Voice Commander so dailing numbers is okay if I don't mind saying "Call Jennifer XXXX at home" then waiting for VC to say "Call Jennifer XXX at home" and then I say "yes" and then it takes a few seconds to complete the call. But the "regular" speed dial sucks. I have to HIT a speed dial button and then select it from the list.

    I love the Treo phone system...all the buttons are RIGHT THERE. All the speed dials can be keyboard driven. I honestly have even tried keyboard speed dials with the 6700 since the keyboard is HIDDEN when I'm using it as a phone 99% of the time.

    Gripes about the phone aside - it's a very powerful PDA. It's about as close as you can get to a tiny screen laptop replacement. Obviously the low resolution and slow processor mean it isn't a TRUE laptop replacement, but it's pretty dang close.

    But as I've said before...the Treo 700P is a FAR better phone than ANY WM5 device I have seen. At least, that's true out the box...we'll see what kind of dialers I can dig up...
    Why in the world can't they work out these interface glitches? I think you'd find the 8125 a little better, but you're right on these holes. The funny thing is that the smartphone version of WM5 does a little better job on these point by more items in top level menus.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  10. #90  
    If you are to busy for an extra screen tap then get a Treo P and then you can deal with the resets because it is taking forever to get anything done because the dbcache STILL is not large enough (or maybe that was not the problem in the first place) and the 3rd party programs are not good with it (seemingly according to many on here). So I ask, which is easier, an extra screen tap or two or removing the back cover and pushing the reset button and waiting on the device to reboot?
  11. Haggar's Avatar
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    #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by gharrod
    If you are to busy for an extra screen tap then get a Treo P and then you can deal with the resets because it is taking forever to get anything done because the dbcache STILL is not large enough (or maybe that was not the problem in the first place) and the 3rd party programs are not good with it (seemingly according to many on here). So I ask, which is easier, an extra screen tap or two or removing the back cover and pushing the reset button and waiting on the device to reboot?
    Well...first an foremost...I *AM* too busy for extra screen taps when I'm making, on average, 30-40 outgoing phone calls per day on this thing. Frequently from the CAR and frequently with only ONE HAND available. Try to do "screen taps" with your finger while driving? Try to dial the phone using the friggin SCREEN all time. IT SUCKS.

    Second...I can work around all this...but my god...it's called windows mobile FIVE. You'd think after so many g-damned incarnations they'd get something as simple as the f-ing dialer right. It's supposed to be a PHONE! If i'm supposedly paying $500+ for a phone, you'd think it would work like one!!

    That said...I'm keeping it. THUNDERHAWKII IS ABSOLUTELY KILLER! Best PDA browsing experience I've ever had. Thank you for the suggestion (was it straussy?)!
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggar
    Second...I can work around all this...but my god...it's called windows mobile FIVE. You'd think after so many g-damned incarnations they'd get something as simple as the f-ing dialer right.
    Heh - that's kind of my feeling about Palm OS FIVE (and they reached FIVE a few years ago)! You'd think by now there's be multi-tasking.
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggar
    Well...first an foremost...I *AM* too busy for extra screen taps when I'm making, on average, 30-40 outgoing phone calls per day on this thing. Frequently from the CAR and frequently with only ONE HAND available. Try to do "screen taps" with your finger while driving? Try to dial the phone using the friggin SCREEN all time. IT SUCKS.

    Second...I can work around all this...but my god...it's called windows mobile FIVE. You'd think after so many g-damned incarnations they'd get something as simple as the f-ing dialer right. It's supposed to be a PHONE! If i'm supposedly paying $500+ for a phone, you'd think it would work like one!!

    That said...I'm keeping it. THUNDERHAWKII IS ABSOLUTELY KILLER! Best PDA browsing experience I've ever had. Thank you for the suggestion (was it straussy?)!
    I'll take credit for that thank you!

    Anyway, I think you are forgetting this is a software product from a software company. If they fix everything in one go, what are they going to sell next year!!! Their job would be gone!!!

    Thats why you have a road map until 2008 already.

    ------------------------->Holiday in Bermuda
    ---------------------------------------------->snowboarding at Whistler
    ------------------------------------------------------------------->world cruise

    More seriously though, they seem to be further from the UI than one would think, and spending more time doing foundation stuff such as .Net CF etc. I'm not sure WM will ever shake off its mini-windows look and feel.

    Surur
  14. #94  
    That's why I would like to see a company with a competent sense of what is and isn't a good user experience build an all-new UI on top of the CE.NET OS. CE has the power but both WM5 for PPC and for Smartphone have some fundamental GUI flaws which would be difficult for developers to overcome. Some examples:
    - The dumb OK button concept. And with WM5, hardware manufacturers are forced (?) to dedicate a hard button just for "OK." It makes sense to have the button there *if* MS is still making use of the OK button on all of their apps and telling developers to continue putting it on the title bar, but it shouldn't be there at all and that's a hardware button that could be used for better purpose.
    - Lack of app-dedicated hard buttons. Again, it's an efficiency thing. This one the hardware manufacturers have some control over, but if they have to have buttons for "OK", "Windows", and two soft buttons (which makes no sense on a device with a touchscreen), they're not left with much space to add additional hard buttons.
    - Lack of app-specific menu as an OS-standard and waste of a soft button for "Menu". I consider this to be one of the biggest problems. With the Palm OS, every app has always had an app-specific menu. In the olden days, you'd tap on the title bar to drop it down. Later, Palm gave us a dedicated hard button to do it. And because it was hidden behind a title bar, it didn't waste any screen real estate. With WM5, there's no dedicate menu button and the system-wide "Start" menu is under the title bar. So screen real estate has to be wasted for an added bar at the bottom. Pre-WM5, developers did their best to make use of the screen real estate by having the Menu bar share space with icons for frequently-used functions. With WM5, they were forced to dumb-down their apps and now can only have two functions at the bottom (for soft button access). And, of course, 95%+ of the time, one of those buttons is for "Menu", so we've essentially got 80 (?) pixels of wasted height just for one frequently used function. This is the one that's especially difficult to deal with after the fact, but I have a couple of ideas. FWIW, Symbian S60 suffers from this as well.

    Those are a few examples. There are others.

    A long while back when I was playing around with eVB I had hopes of fixing many of MS' usability goof-ups after the fact and even trying to post my ideas somewhere in hopes of finding others who agreed and getting developers to adopt a alternate set of usability standards. That's the rub. In order for developers to fix these mistakes and provide an improved user experience, you really need *everyone* to get on board. Otherwise you end up with a bad user experience where some apps work one way, and others work a different way.

    The best solution is for MS to rethink the experience and come up with a new set of guidelines for hardware/software developers to adhere to. But I've been waiting for them to do that since PPC 2000 and they haven't fixed any of those things (and in some cases, took steps backward).

    The funny thing is that I see evidence of Palm (who likes to tout their usability brilliance) taking steps back in usability as well (see the button rearrangement with the 700p for evidence of that). While Hawkins may be getting a paycheck from Palm, I don't see any evidence that he's actively involved with their usability team.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  15. #95  
    Interesting thoughts. What were your ideas to fix it (or how would your ideal OS GUI work)?

    Surur
  16.    #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggar
    Well...first an foremost...I *AM* too busy for extra screen taps when I'm making, on average, 30-40 outgoing phone calls per day on this thing. Frequently from the CAR and frequently with only ONE HAND available. Try to do "screen taps" with your finger while driving? Try to dial the phone using the friggin SCREEN all time. IT SUCKS.

    Second...I can work around all this...but my god...it's called windows mobile FIVE. You'd think after so many g-damned incarnations they'd get something as simple as the f-ing dialer right. It's supposed to be a PHONE! If i'm supposedly paying $500+ for a phone, you'd think it would work like one!!

    That said...I'm keeping it. THUNDERHAWKII IS ABSOLUTELY KILLER! Best PDA browsing experience I've ever had. Thank you for the suggestion (was it straussy?)!
    Man, after that tirade, you better do an extra dozen Hail Mary's!

    surur is the Thunderhawk man - guess I better give it a look. Except when I'm in a busy public area, I use Voice Command and tell the phone the numebrs to dial. It is so much easier than the onscreen keyboard, even in teh moving car.

    I just don't understand why no manufacturer will put a dialpad on the front of a slide out keyboard device; even if they were just in a row, like above the softkeys and below the screen on the 8125 - dialing would be INFINITELY easier and they'd capture a significant share of the market for real one-handed use.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    Man, after that tirade, you better do an extra dozen Hail Mary's!

    surur is the Thunderhawk man - guess I better give it a look. Except when I'm in a busy public area, I use Voice Command and tell the phone the numebrs to dial. It is so much easier than the onscreen keyboard, even in teh moving car.

    I just don't understand why no manufacturer will put a dialpad on the front of a slide out keyboard device; even if they were just in a row, like above the softkeys and below the screen on the 8125 - dialing would be INFINITELY easier and they'd capture a significant share of the market for real one-handed use.
    He's become quite the potty mouth since making the move back to MS.
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  18. #98  
    I think many of us make at least 30-40 calls a day. Not sure anyone has a exclusive on this.
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    Man, after that tirade, you better do an extra dozen Hail Mary's!

    surur is the Thunderhawk man - guess I better give it a look. Except when I'm in a busy public area, I use Voice Command and tell the phone the numebrs to dial. It is so much easier than the onscreen keyboard, even in teh moving car.

    I just don't understand why no manufacturer will put a dialpad on the front of a slide out keyboard device; even if they were just in a row, like above the softkeys and below the screen on the 8125 - dialing would be INFINITELY easier and they'd capture a significant share of the market for real one-handed use.
    Good point, they could even do 5 rocker keys like the BB has.
  20.    #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by geatches
    He's become quite the potty mouth since making the move back to MS.
    Dealing with the devil will do that to ya...
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
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