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  1. Familyman's Avatar
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       #1  
    I looked at the HTC 8125 Wizard. Very nice! I aways thought I would buy a Tre 650. Now I can't make up my mind. Please tell me what you think! Help me make up my mind! I am hearing all the new Tros will have WM no more P OS. What would you do??
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by Familyman
    I looked at the HTC 8125 Wizard. Very nice! I aways thought I would buy a Tre 650. Now I can't make up my mind. Please tell me what you think! Help me make up my mind! I am hearing all the new Tros will have WM no more P OS. What would you do??
    Ed. Colligan (CEO of Palm) has stated that they will continue to produce palm OS treos. Sprint is expected to release the treo 700p next month. Palm OS is not dead yet, though Palm DOES need to come out with an updated OS to remain competative with WM5.

    The 8125 is one of the most attractive WM5 handhelds out there with a beautiful design. I'm a Sprint user, so I've been looking at the 6700 (HTC Apache) which is very similar. I actually like the design of the 8125 better.

    I do have some reservations about WM5 though. There are well-documented issues with the newest version of ActiveSync. If you get any WM5 device, be prepared to go through extensive AS troubleshooting. Some users have reported it working fine for several weeks/months, then acting up. If your company runs an Exchange server, this is a non-issue as WM5 works very well when sync'd with Exchange.

    My other reservation is that WM5 devices lock you into using Outlook for your PIM. If you're already an Outlook user, this is a non-issue. I refuse to use Outlook because of the security liability it presents, Outlook has been the portal through which many viruses gain access to their host (victim) systems. Newer Palms will sync with Outlook as well, if that's your preference.

    Ultimately, only you can decide which handheld is best suited to meet your own needs. As to the Windows Treo, I'd stay away from it for now. The 700w only has 32mb of ram for the system to run on. This is comparable to devices running WM2002 or 2003 from a few years ago. Windows Mobile 5 really needs at least 64mb of ram to run on. Both the HTC Wizard and HTC Apache are technically superior to the 700w as they include twice the system ram, have more storage space (flash/nand memory), and larger keyboards with full size screens (320x240). 700w only has a 240x240 screen which causes problems when trying to run standard Windows Mobile software that hasn't been specifically written to run on the smaller format screen. I don't know about the Wizard, but the Apache has built-in WiFi as well. With the 700w, you must add an external WiFi card in place of your storage card.

    The following questions may help you to decide:

    Does your company have an Exchange server?
    Do you use Outlook for your PIM?
    Have you already purchased software for WM or Palm OS?
    How do you plan to use your device?
    (Palm Treo is a better form factor for one-handed use. Wizard/Apache afford a larger, more comfortable keyboard if you can/will use both hands)
    How technically-adept are you?
    (Palm OS is easier for a first-time PDA user, If you're a power-user on your PC and very comfortable with windows registry, etc, you may prefer WM5. Palm works very simply, but doesn't offer as many options to configure and tweak your system. Windows Mobile isn't as simple, but allows you to multi-task and gives many options to tweak your PDA to your preferences through registry hacks)

    I would recommend checking out these forums for more info on the 8125 and windows mobile 5 in general as well:

    http://www.pdaphonehome.com/forums/f...play.php?f=176
    http://ppc6700users.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=4
    http://www.pocketpcmag.com/_top/bestsites.asp

    On TreoCentral, these threads will be helpful. Pay special attention to the posts by HobbesIsReal as he's been using a 6600 (predecessor to the Apache) for the last year and a half and has considerable experience with Windows Mobile. His posts are very neutral and fair to both sides as he's a former Treo user.

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=111317
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=101740
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=110351

    Hope this helps you with your decision.
    HP95LX--->Palm m130--->Palm Zire71--->Treo 700P --->Palm Pré
  3. Familyman's Avatar
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       #3  
    Thank you for all the info. Everything you mentioned was very helpful. My work does use exchange and I do use Outlook but I think I am leaning towards the Treo 650 (I think). Do you think the Treo 700 coming out with POS will be better?) Boy thanks for all the info, these forums are outstanding for getting great info. One last question, any recommendations for good graffiti software that uses graffiti II to load onto a Treo?
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Familyman
    Thank you for all the info. Everything you mentioned was very helpful. My work does use exchange and I do use Outlook but I think I am leaning towards the Treo 650 (I think). Do you think the Treo 700 coming out with POS will be better?) Boy thanks for all the info, these forums are outstanding for getting great info. One last question, any recommendations for good graffiti software that uses graffiti II to load onto a Treo?
    The 700P should be a nice upgrade from the 650. Highlights are:
    EV-DO (300-700kps data connection in supported areas, 144kps max w/ 650)
    128MB Flash/Nand Storage memory (as opposed to the 32MB on the 650)
    1.3MP camera (650 is only 0.3MP)
    Larger DbCache (650 is around 10MB, 700P is much bigger)

    The EV-DO, and memory are enough for me.

    DbCache on a palm is like the system ram on a ppc; in both cases, it's the area where the OS works in. The bigger the area for the OS to work in, the more stable/reliable the system .

    This also allows you to use larger/more demanding applications such as multimedia and emulation apps. The 700p memory structure will be similar to the 700w in that it will have 32MB of ram; on the 700P, the OS is loaded from the ROM to RAM on bootup, whatever's left after loading the OS is used as the Dbcache.
    (search dbcache on here or checkout http://www.shadowmite.com for more info on this)

    The camera is nothing more than a toy if you ask me. Most consumer digicams are 4MP+ with a real glass lens and a built-in optical zoom. Most camera-phones have a plastic, single element lens, which, combined with a low-resolution sensor produce poor quality results.
    If you want to take pictures for anything important, use a real camera. The built-in unit is sufficient for photo-id in your contacts and quickie pics for the web, but I wouldn't get your expectations up for anything beyond that. Keep in mind that this is coming from a photographer; when I take pictures, I use my Nikon SLRs.

    When the 700p comes out, prices on the 650 should drop considerably. I expect the 700p to be somwhere between $449-$499 with a new 2-year contract when it comes out. I anticipate that the 650 will drop from $349 w/ 2yr (current price at my local Sprint store) to around $99-$149 with a 2yr agreement.

    If you're a power-user and anticipate using lots of 3rd party software and sometimes using your PDA as a laptop-replacement, I would recommend the 700p. If you'd rather save on your purchase and only plan on using it for phone and PIM functions, take advantage of the 650 at the lower price.

    The 650 is a very mature product, any issues that it had upon release have been resolved (except for low memory, but I've managed the last 3 years on only 16MB with my Zire71).

    The 700p is a brand-new product and may not be perfect from day one. Anyone purchasing the 700p when it comes out should do so with the expectation of dealing with some issues (growing pains) present in the first ROM revision. I don't expect any deal-breaking concerns, but if you're very cautious, you may want to wait for some reviews and the first ROM update before taking the plunge.

    Also, the 700P will very likely be a Sprint-exclusive for the first 3-6 months; this may be an issue if you're tied to Cingular service with an existing contract. If not, Sprint has the lowest data rates among the cellular providers and has very competative pricing on their voice-plans. Last time I checked, Cingular wanted $59.99 for their unlimited data plan on PDA's, Sprints Vision is only $15. Sprints network was built from the ground-up as a single entity and will provide a more consistent experience across the network than Verizon, whose network is the cellular equivalent of a patch-work quilt, having been pieced together from many smaller networks that they've absorbed over the years.

    As for Cingular, it's a GSM network. GSM (Cingular) has some advantages over CDMA (used by verizon and Sprint):
    -Since GSM uses SIM cards, you have the option of easily switching phones (say you want to take a cheapie camping for the weekend without endangering your treo, for example), just pop the SIM out and put it in another phone and you're ready to go. \
    -GSM is also the standard overseas, so if you travel internationally and plan to take your phone with you, GSM is nice, because you can purchase a pre-paid SIM when you arrive and use it with your existing phone.

    Concerning data, the Cingular Treo 650 has EDGE (~155kps) for data access, which is slightly faster than the 1xRTT (~144kps) connection on the Sprint and Verizon 650s. So the Cingular 650 is a bit faster than the Verizon/Sprint models for data. The EV-DO is faster than EDGE, but Cingular is expected to roll out UMTS in the near future which should provide comparable data speeds to EV-DO when new devices are released to take advantage of it. Many on these forums expect the upcoming 'Hollywood' device to be an example of such, but is not expected until fall/winter.
    The ugly side of GSM technology is that your call quality is directly proportional to the strength of your signal; if you have a strong signal, your call quality will be really good, but as signal drops, so does your call quality. This is not an issue with CDMA due to the way the technology transmits your call. With Sprint/Verizon, even if you have just one bar, your calls will be clear; data access rates suffer under low-signal with both GSM & CDMA.

    I think I wrote a bit much, but this should hopefully give you more info to help you make an informed decision.

    To get graffiti on your Treo, you can try Graffiti Anywhere, available here:
    http://www.escande.org/palm/GrfAnywhere/
    I don't know about the treos (don't have one yet), but my Zire71 has an option in 'Preferences' to enable "Write anywhere on-screen" built-in.
    Last edited by Midknight; 04/09/2006 at 09:39 PM.
    HP95LX--->Palm m130--->Palm Zire71--->Treo 700P --->Palm Pré
  5. #5  
    the only phones that I have ever seen that have decent (non-toy) cameras in them are by Sony-Ericcson. look at the k750, w800 & w900. I think Samsung is coming out with a 3+ mp model, but I have not seen it and I don't know if it has auto-focus.

    Personally I like the PalmOS and would wait for the 700p if I were paying for my own devices. But these things are so personal that it's nearly impossible to make a good recommendation. listen to everyone's input and decide what suits you best.
    ---
    iPhone / Samsung Epix

    Current playtoys:
    Also: Treo 750 (Test phone) / Sony Ericcson w900 (unlocked for international travel)
  6. #6  
    Just a couple additional items:

    GraffitiAnywhere does allow you to use it anywhere on the screen. I had it for a week and removed it. When you have the keyboard, you will never go back to graffiti.

    Also, if you're going to use the phone functionality heavily, reconsider getting a treo (Cingular). I don't know if this is true with other carriers, but all 3 treos I went through had terrible reception. The Cingular network has great coverage- I didn't realize this until I got the 8125.
  7. Familyman's Avatar
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       #7  
    Thanks so much for all this info. Iit is really helpful. I am currently with Cingular and will hit the one year mark in May. I currrently have a regular cell phone and use a Tungsten T3. I think I want to stay with POS. I have heard all kinds of things as far as when Cingular will be out with their Treo 700 and the latest I have heard is that they will be out with both a POS version and a WM version. If they will be out with a POS version this summer I will be willing to wait but it will be hard to wait beyond that. What have you heard when and if the Cingular will be out with 700 POS? Also the keyboard looks better on the 700 is that true? The keys look a little farther apart.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Familyman
    Thanks so much for all this info. Iit is really helpful. I am currently with Cingular and will hit the one year mark in May. I currrently have a regular cell phone and use a Tungsten T3. I think I want to stay with POS. I have heard all kinds of things as far as when Cingular will be out with their Treo 700 and the latest I have heard is that they will be out with both a POS version and a WM version. If they will be out with a POS version this summer I will be willing to wait but it will be hard to wait beyond that. What have you heard when and if the Cingular will be out with 700 POS? Also the keyboard looks better on the 700 is that true? The keys look a little farther apart.
    Don't bank on rumors. There are so many of them floating around it is ridiculous. I completely avoid the "Future Treos" threads now because it has become a big joke. The point is, Palm hasn't even announced any tentative dates or specs. All we know is that there are 3 new handhelds coming out this year. Based on the past, Sprint will be first on the list. I've converted over to the 8125 because I think Palm has missed the boat. The WiFi has made it worth it alone - something the next treo probably won't even have without having a card sticking out.
  9. #9  
    Phattysalz is right. I feel that Palm can't even find the dock, much less miss the boat. At one time, they (including Handspring) were an industry leader. Now, they are like that old sled dog joke - the view is all the same. I know, I know; I've heard all the explanations from experts and apologists alike ("hitting the sweet spot"; "marketing to the average user"; "constrained by carrier demands"; you name it).

    In reality, they are hamstrung by an archaic OS (POS); they don't have the development dollars (or refuse to use them) to integrate features like WiFi and more memory; and instead of pushing the envelope, they sealed it and mailed themselves to Siberia. Sometimes I think they're setting there looking for the "Any" key.

    OK - enough ranting. Keep your eye on HTC and you'll see where the smartphone market is really going.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  10. #10  
    yet palm's stock price is doing very well. what do the investors see that we all do not?
    ---
    iPhone / Samsung Epix

    Current playtoys:
    Also: Treo 750 (Test phone) / Sony Ericcson w900 (unlocked for international travel)
  11. #11  
    I have a Cingular 650 and had and sent back an 8125. I really liked the 8125 but the dialing pad it had stunk and I hated having to pull out the keyboard for some phone functions. I know the voice dialing is great but it does not help when you have to type in numeric prompts or codes during calls. If the virtual dial pad was bigger I might have kept it. I have since moved back to an 8700c BB. My company upgraded our BES and we sync "everything" wirelessly. E-mail, contacts, calendar, memos and tasks all come down to my phone. The other nice thing is the unlimited international data feature. This is what moved me from a WM5 device. The ability to get unlimited data with no additional roaming fee's lets me get all my e-mails and data with no extra fee. Since I travel internationally this is a big selling point of the BB.
    I had planned on going with a WM5 GSM Treo when it comes out but am not sure now. Even a 700P GSM with BB Connect might not be enough to bring me back to a Treo since the software behind BB Connect seems to be Versamail. That being said, I would not have the ability to invite people to meetings using the BB connect. The only benefit over Activesync on the current 650 is the ability to do corporate look ups and the push e-mail.
    My Camelot of phones would be a WM5 operating system on a Treo with BB Connect that allows one to invite people to meetings. This config would allow me to keep my BB data plan and my international roaming. However, I doubt this type pf phone will ever be built. My plan is to wait until the GSM Treo P and W are launched and read the reviews. Based on my needs I will probably buy one since I am a gadget freak. Right now, my 8700c is rock solid, never resets and does everything plus some that I was using my Treo for. I know the Treo has a camera, touchscreen....etc....but not being a power user that is listening to mp3's or watching movies on it, the BB does it all for me.
  12. #12  
    After finally warming up to the 8125 and Windows Mobile I'm about to do a 180.

    I'm so frustrated with the darn thing that I'm ready to toss it into the nearest lake and pretend I've never heard of the 8125 or Windows Mobile.

    First: I've had to hard reset it 4 times in two weeks. It's not like Palm where a hotsync restores everything. I've got to set it all up again.

    Next: The Bluetooth radio ONLY works for my headphone. I can't get it to pair with the Acura nor can I discover it from ANY computer. Apparently even when "discovery" is checked it's not discoverable. (Even after a hard reset!) The Cingular rep double checked this and said "the phone can discover other devices, but it can't be discovered". What is the point of that???? (Perhaps this will be fixed in the next ROM?)

    Now: It's burning out my SIM cards. I've had to replace my SIM card twice in one week. Going back again this afternoon.

    ActiveSync has messed up my data twice in this period. I can't even get it to sync notes at the moment and lately it's randomly deleting my contacts. (Thank goodness for backup PST files.) Yes: I've deleted the AS device and re-added it. No joy though.

    For the moment I've switched to a S-E w900i. At least I know what I've got. (No surprises.)

    I REALLY miss my Treo 650 now.

    (end rant -- thanks for listening)
    ---
    iPhone / Samsung Epix

    Current playtoys:
    Also: Treo 750 (Test phone) / Sony Ericcson w900 (unlocked for international travel)
  13. jlczl's Avatar
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    #13  
    Sorry but that is inaccurate. The 8125 CERTAINLY CAN BE DISCOVERED. It appears you have a bad unit' it should not fry your SIM card. I recommend you exchange it.
    Palm VII-Palm Vx-Palm M125-Clie T615-Sony NZ90-Sony NX80-Toshiba E800-Sony NZ90 (again)-Treo 600-HP 6315-Treo 650-Moto MPX220-SX66-Treo 650 (again)-QTek 9100-HP6515-Cingular 8125-Moto Q (10 days)-Cingular 8125 (again)-Nokia 9300-Cingular 2125 & Nokia E62-ETen M600+-Cingular 3125-Treo 750 & Samsung Blackjack-Cingular 8525-iPhone-Moto Q9-at&t Tilt-iPhone3G-Nokia E71-HTC Diamond-Blackberry Bold-at&t Fuze-SE Xperia X1a-Treo Pro.

    Be very, very quiet. I'm gonna catch me a rhinoceros.
  14. #14  
    It's not inaccurate for my unit. I should have made it clear that I feel the unit is defective.

    Cingular is telling me that it's 4-6 weeks for a replacement unit. <Sigh>

    EDIT: The sales monkey also didn't put me in a good mood when he asked "what are you doing to make the SIM card fry?" I felt like telling him that I stood too close to the last cellular salesman that I electricuted.
    ---
    iPhone / Samsung Epix

    Current playtoys:
    Also: Treo 750 (Test phone) / Sony Ericcson w900 (unlocked for international travel)
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by driven01
    yet palm's stock price is doing very well. what do the investors see that we all do not?
    What do investors see? Sales. Lots of 'em. From executives to soccer moms to high school kids. Everyone seems to have a Treo. It has been one of Palm's best selling products ever. I hear the Treo ring all over the place.

    Since convergence devices are becoming mainstream, Palm has a sweet spot and is cashing in in record numbers. I recently switched from my 650 to a 6700 and have been very happy. I never thought I could watch my slingbox & tivo while speeding down the interstate. Very cool.

    As technology becomes more mainstream, expect smartphones to surge (i.e. Palm investors are happy).
  16. #16  
    What's selling? The Treo 650 or the 700w?
    ---
    iPhone / Samsung Epix

    Current playtoys:
    Also: Treo 750 (Test phone) / Sony Ericcson w900 (unlocked for international travel)
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by driven01
    It's not inaccurate for my unit. I should have made it clear that I feel the unit is defective.

    Cingular is telling me that it's 4-6 weeks for a replacement unit. <Sigh>

    EDIT: The sales monkey also didn't put me in a good mood when he asked "what are you doing to make the SIM card fry?" I felt like telling him that I stood too close to the last cellular salesman that I electricuted.
    Every series of phones has defective units...I went thru 4 Treo 600s and 2 PPC-6600 that were defect from the manufacturer.

    It sounds more like a customer service issue with Cing, IMHO.

    As for restoring after a back up....get Sprite Backup. It is great and after you set up just the way you want it, backup it up, keep it on your SD card as a self installing exe file and no matter when it happens again while you are waiting for your replacement you will be good to go again within 10 minutes.
  18. #18  
    between the two, i would go for the wizard becasue of the bigger screen. i was hoping the next gen of palm devices would be sporting a larger screen but it appears that the screen size will stay about the same.
    Naveen

    Current:Cingular 8525 w/Faria R32

    Next Phone:
    Something from HTC because Palm sucks, so I want a Touch Pro, Touch HD, or a Treo Pro.
  19. edmc's Avatar
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    #19  
    I purchased the MDA 4 days ago having finally given up on Palm EVER catching up. Not only that, I'm fairly committed to T-Mobile (e.g. ties with Family Plan participants, etc...), and have been repeatably informed that T-Mobile will never carry a Treo again (or any other "high priced" PDA phone for that matter).

    Enter the MDA.

    I bought it not only for the smooth Push Email integration with Windows Exchange 2003 R2 (although I don't know when T-Mobile will make the patch available) and the WiFi. Neither of these look to be coming from a Treo no matter the cost any time soon :-(.

    Alas, as much as I dearly wanted to move beyond my 3-year-old Treo 600 (and all its quirks and limitations), I just returned the MDA. Rather, I started too but was introduced to the new Blackberry 8700g they just started selling the day after I bought the MDA).

    First of all, MSFT has a VERY LONG WAY TO GO in the useability area. The worst of all examples is when you have the keyboard extended and you are perhaps switching between applications. Simply put, you need THREE HANDS: 1 to hold the MDA, a 2nd to press the keyboard keys (impossible to do with the hand holding the MDA), and a 3rd to hold the sylus as there are lots of times that is the only way to make a selection in an application). Truely painful. I only hope Palm (in the 700-series) has found a way to successfully hide the most annoying of these 3-hand-requiring functions.

    But don't get me wrong - I'm not a total Palm Treo supporter either. Their non-multitasking OS is definately showing its age. With an IM Client and ChatterMail both running in the background, resets, hangs, and just plain odd behavior are my current plague.

    By contrast - and I can't really say I'm seriously considering the Blackberry 8700g - there isn't even a stylus in the 8700g! It's every bit a 1-handed device like the Treo with the added benefit of NEVER requiring a stylus. So Palm could definately learn a few things from Blackberry (hint: put a thumbwheel in your next phone Palm).

    So it's back to the waiting game for me. I'll probably up to a Treo 650 when newer Treos drive the 650's price down to noise levels. The 650 would certainly be a welcome improvement on many levels (most importantly screen resolution) without requiring the huge gestalt shift required to go from the Treo world to the MSFT way of doing things...

    Just my 2 cents...
  20. edmc's Avatar
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    #20  
    One more thing as a positive on the MDA (T-Mobile's variant of the HTC 8125) is the WiFi. Others have mentioned that it is possible to enable the 802.11g functionality thru a (remote) registry edit, but I must say that seems unnecessary given the speed of the device (and the usual Internet WAN link accessed via 802.11b). Either way, I have had several different WiFi devices in my home office unable to connect to an access point at the other end of the house - that is until I brought home the MDA! I couldn't believe it when I got 30% signal level on the MDA and was able to connect at will. And yes it was significantly faster than the Edge support (particularly noticable when Pocket Outlook SSL-connected with my comcast.net mailserver).
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