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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by BigKenny
    battery life-agreed, i will see how big of an issue this is for me
    screen res - yes and no. one can argue this is a big deal, but to me the aspect of 1:1 on the treo was not good either. yes i am losing 80 pixels, but i like the 4:3 or 3:4 aspect better.
    brightness - agreed
    one hand usage - sounds like there is an app that helps with this. from what i have found, most 3rd party palm apps do not support this very well anyway
    size - almost the same, the 6700 does feel bigger. i have another line for when i go out anyway
    phone app - will see
    SMS - sounds like there is a beta of a threaded sms for WM
    email - worse than versa? i find this hard to believe, we will see.
    software - i actually found this to be the complete oppisite.

    we will see if i still have this in 2 weeks.
    For email, I'm comparing the 650 with Chatter (which I use) to the 6700. Unfortunately for 6700 users, the developer of Chatter has no desire to do a WM5 version and there are no good WM5-compatible alternatives.

    The beta SMS program is really buggy and looks like it will never be completed.

    The 6700 also lacks A2DP which the Treo 650 now has available to it.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    I feel the same way. The 6700 (though much newer than the 650) is actually worse in many areas. Battery life, screen resolution, screen brightness, one-handed usage, size, phone app, SMS app, email app, software availability, etc. are all better on the much older Treo 650.

    The update to the 6700 was a good one, though it could have been a lot better. With the update, the 6700 has the advantage in data speed and WiFi, though you really can't use either one if you're not plugged into the wall for power.
    A couple of hopefully helpful points from one who was/is a Treo lover that has been using PPC-6600 for 18 months now.

    EASE OF USE
    First of all concerning the ease of use of the PPC, I mentioned up in post #4 that nearly every Palm user crossing over to the PPC world says basically the same thing when they first use PPC...something like "It was so much easier to do that on my Palm" or "It is faster to do that on my Palm". There are specific examples that this is certainly true, but for the most part it is simply that you are not as familiar with how PPC does things and works behind the scenes than you are with Palm. Think back to when your first Palm, I bet you were a LOT slower at doing everything then than compared to now too. Same thing.

    The other thing is that, just like with the Treo 650, you need to add some small helper utilities to make easier to use and faster to do things. The same thing with the PPC. If you are comparing your Treo 650 with all the 3rd party add-on utilities to the 6700 straight out of the box, you not comparing oranges to apples but comparing oranges to pineapples.

    Again here are two links that will really help you out with this:
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    NOT A LOT OF PPC SOFTWARE AVAILABILITY
    This is one I hear a lot, and mostly from die hard Palm lovers, or simply those who haven't had the chance to really explore and find the truth.

    There are exceptions to everything, for example I am sure there are programs that only available on Palm just as there are programs that only available for PPC. But for the most part they are very close when talking about software availability. I am a heavy road warrior and use my PPC to the extremes when compared to the casual or maybe the average user. I can say in the last 18 months have yet to find a program that I had or my Treo that I could not find an equivalent option for my PPC. Just browse through the 5 links I posted up in post #11 .....and that barely scratches the surface of what is available.

    What I do think Palm does have more of than the PPC is single purpose or small utilities. I think this is due to the closer net developing community that Palm seems to have.

    BATTERY LIFE
    I think the Treo does probably have a longer batter life, but from what I have heard the 6700 is not as bad as some may have experienced. Again, I think this comes down to a couple factors.

    The first one is not be familiar enough with the new OS to optimize it's settings to maximize the battery life. For example :
    • In the settings go to batter and set the screen brightness down to the notch just above turning it off when it is using the battery. This usually works great for 95% of the time. If you are in direct sunlight and need it brighter, then turn it up.
    • By default the Win Mobile OS has Beam on. So it is always looking for IR beam. Turn this off to save a lot of a day's battery life
    • Many WM OS 3rd party apps love to update themselves several times a day (i.e. news apps, weather, etc...). Turn this manual or only once a day. Another big one is how often it checks for email. Basically look for any additional data calls that don't need to be made.
    • WIFI. This is an option that the Treo does not even offer. Simply note that when you need it, it will take more power and plan to top off the battery accordingly. Many reports over at PDAphoneHome have been very positive concerning the power draw of the Wifi when compared to add-on cards with other models.
    • BT takes power. If you are using BT, (i.e. headset, GPS, keyboard, etc...) great. If not it is real easy to turn it off and save more battery life.
    These are just a couple hints to be aware which basically boils down to being aware of the signals and radio use of your phone and the screen brightness and you will see a whole new life added to your phone's battery.


    I hope some of this helps you with your 2 week eval.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 04/07/2006 at 06:53 PM.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    For email, I'm comparing the 650 with Chatter (which I use) to the 6700. Unfortunately for 6700 users, the developer of Chatter has no desire to do a WM5 version and there are no good WM5-compatible alternatives.
    I am a heavy email user on my PPC device and I am VERY happy with the latest version of MailFlex 2006 (previously known as WebIs Mail). It is very customizable and easy to use. Check it out here:

    http://www.webis.net/products_info.php?p_id=mail&dir=wm

    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    The beta SMS program is really buggy and looks like it will never be completed.
    This is the big area that WM has struggled to get an option available that is equal to Palm, but there is a hopeful outlook for the near future.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    The 6700 also lacks A2DP which the Treo 650 now has available to it.
    There have been some who have reported hacking successfully to support this, but as for the masses, This may be changing very quickly:

    PREVIEW: Microsoft Windows Mobile 5.0 AKU 2 Bluetooth A2DP Profile
    http://www.theunwired.net/?itemid=2779
  4. #44  
    Hobbes, please link to exactly where people have gotten A2DP working on a Sprint 6700.

    Also, you're obviously heavily biased as I'm sure everyone can tell. Claiming that the 650 PROBABLY has better battery life is moronic. Sorry, but it's true. Stock to stock it's not even close. Add in that you can get a 2400mAh battery the same size as stock with the 650 and can only get a pathetic 1500mAh battery on the 6700.

    The 650 also supports a full-sized SD card which is currently up to 4GB and costs under $200. You can't even come close to that with miniSD.
  5. ls3mach's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by BigKenny
    battery life-agreed, yes i am losing 80 pixels, but i like the 4:3 or 3:4 aspect better.
    .

    80 pixles. lol

    320x320=102,400
    240x320=076,800
    =025,600

    I believe that is roughly 25% less realastate.

    Whoever said the PPC-6700 has a better screen is nuts. The 650s screen is brighter and crisper and has much better color. Although I do enjoy surfing in landscape mode.
  6. ls3mach's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    Hobbes, please link to exactly where people have gotten A2DP working on a Sprint 6700.

    Also, you're obviously heavily biased as I'm sure everyone can tell. Claiming that the 650 PROBABLY has better battery life is moronic. Sorry, but it's true. Stock to stock it's not even close. Add in that you can get a 2400mAh battery the same size as stock with the 650 and can only get a pathetic 1500mAh battery on the 6700.

    The 650 also supports a full-sized SD card which is currently up to 4GB and costs under $200. You can't even come close to that with miniSD.

    Add in the fact that the stock Treo battery is much larger by something like 450mAH. 1800mAH compared to 1350mAH.

    I'm not trying to dog the 650 or defend the 6700. Lets just make fair comparisons. The Treo 650 is a great device, but its hardware is put to shame by the 6700. If you want to argue OSes, well Win98 is fast and stable, but who wants to use that when XP is fast, stable, and supports all of todays hardware.

    To buy a new Treo 650 now to me is dumb. It is nearing the end of its life cycle and is not a good investment for its money now.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    Hobbes, please link to exactly where people have gotten A2DP working on a Sprint 6700.

    Also, you're obviously heavily biased as I'm sure everyone can tell. Claiming that the 650 PROBABLY has better battery life is moronic. Sorry, but it's true. Stock to stock it's not even close. Add in that you can get a 2400mAh battery the same size as stock with the 650 and can only get a pathetic 1500mAh battery on the 6700.

    The 650 also supports a full-sized SD card which is currently up to 4GB and costs under $200. You can't even come close to that with miniSD.
    I try to keep it as balanced as I can, I was not trying to be biased but to give options to the concerns that were expressed by those in this thread that are new to to the world of the PPC world . As you know, I always say there is not one single phone that is perfect for everyone, but there is a phone specific phone that perfect for everyone. Know the pros and the cons of each phone you may want. If the pros do what you need to do and you can live with or work around the cons, then you will be very happy with whatever phone you choose.....no matter if is a WM phone like the 6700, a palm phone like the Treo 650, or a dumbed down 3rd generation old cell phone like a Sanyo 4900.

    As for A2DP,....It was a while ago...I cannot even remember which board it was one, but I think over at PDAphoneHome or XDA Developers....a search may bring it up. HTC also just announced they are offering an AKU 2 update for the Universal and for the Wizard ( http://msmobiles.com/news.php/5102.html )....so it is happening in the WM world right now.

    Sorry for the technical understatement in my agreement that the 650 has a better battery life that lead to your conclusion of me being heavily biased. But you totally ignored the second half of that very sentence your took exception to that says that wasn't even the point I was really addressing, but rather the extremely poor battery life on the 6700 that some were experiencing.

    And I FULLY agree with you, and have already stated it several times over, that I too think it sucks that they use the miniSD card.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 04/08/2006 at 02:21 AM.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by ls3mach
    80 pixles. lol

    320x320=102,400
    240x320=076,800
    =025,600

    I believe that is roughly 25% less realastate.

    Whoever said the PPC-6700 has a better screen is nuts. The 650s screen is brighter and crisper and has much better color. Although I do enjoy surfing in landscape mode.
    No question about the screens.

    Hobbes, searching pdaphonehome brings up zero threads about people getting A2DP working on a 6700. I did find numerous threads about how the new update blows because it doesn't have A2DP and how no one has been able to get A2DP working on a 6700.

    The battery life of the 6700 is extremely poor when compared to the 650. The 650 gets about twice the battery life out of the box and about three times the battery life with the stock-sized extended battery.

    The 6700 does some things well, it's just that phone usage, BT volume, SMS, battery life, one-handed usage, screen brightness, pixel density, size, etc. are not some of those things. You'll notice that none of these are related to the OS with the exception of the battery life.

    If you need WiFi, EV-DO, multitasking or two-handed typing, get the 6700. Otherwise, stick with the 650 since it does almost everything else better.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by ls3mach
    80 pixles. lol

    320x320=102,400
    240x320=076,800
    =025,600

    I believe that is roughly 25% less realastate.

    Whoever said the PPC-6700 has a better screen is nuts. The 650s screen is brighter and crisper and has much better color. Although I do enjoy surfing in landscape mode.
    This a perfect example of personal pros and cons at work. For example on paper the Treo 650 screen is better. There is no doubt that is it crisper due to the additional pixels. Text will be easier to read as a result. But will require more scrolling due to being a square screen.

    As for the 240x320 phones, they offer a larger desktop to work with. Programs do not have specifically written to support the screen size. And as you noted is also adds the additional feature of Landscape view.

    In my specific case the pros of the 240x320 outweigh the pros of 320x320 screen because the benifits of having a larger desktop with landscape is more of a benefit than what a higher resolution on a smaller square screen would provide for me.

    This is not make the 240x320 better than the 320x320 nor does this make the 320x320 worse than the 240x320. It simply means that the 240x320 fits my personal needs better.

    This can hold true for nearly any feature by feature pros and cons comparison (format, memory, OS, etc...)....it all boils down to personal needs, wants, expectations, ect....if it fits your needs and wants then it is the best option for you!
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    Hobbes, searching pdaphonehome brings up zero threads about people getting A2DP working on a 6700. I did find numerous threads about how the new update blows because it doesn't have A2DP and how no one has been able to get A2DP working on a 6700.
    You are right, the newest update blew A2DP away. I thought that some got it working again, but they apparently ran into some snags. It appears that this was a MS thing. As I stated before updates for other WM05 phones are starting to get the A2DP updates back. The forum I saw them working on it was over at XDA, but they are still working it out. If anyone can get it back before an official release, it is the guys over there.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 04/07/2006 at 07:06 PM.
  11. #51  
    Only the 650 and 6600/1 have A2DP when it comes to Sprint.
  12. ls3mach's Avatar
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    #52  
    I think you guys are taking me wrong. I dont think the PPC-6700 has great battery life, it just isn't as bad as what people say. I think the power consumption is acceptable. I think it is the battery that is too tiny. I would love to have 1800mAH battery like the Treo.

    Sprint claims 5 hours talk on the Treo 650 (funny because Palm claims 6 hours on the CDMA and GSM models, I have never even got 5, but lets use this number for arguments sake).
    300 minutes. 1800mA = 16.7% used per hour of talk

    Sprint claims 3.5 hours of talk time for the PPC-6700. I can believe it gets fairly close to that, definetly not more than the Treo 650 though.

    210 minutes. 1350mA = 15.5% used per hour of talk.


    So really as far as just phone efficiency goes the Treo 650 isnt that much more superior.

    That extended use battery beats the **** out of what is available for the PPC-6700. I do agree the battery life is lacking. I think it has a lot to do with how much and what kind of usage. There that was wrote for PPC-6700 (probably all of WM5, but I dont know) that checks battery consumption. I would be curious to see if EVDO eats up more batterry than 1xRTT. I bet it does. I can tell you I use this phone a TON more than I did my Treo 650. It can do so much more. Surfing my net from my Treo was limited using Directory assistant and quick googling or reading of bash. Images were never turned on as it was just terrible to try and use. The crisper screen was wasted on this device I think.

    Hobbes you mentioned that you have found 3rd party equivlents on the PPC side. I have not however found 2 very useful (to me) programs.
    1. Bob's Alarm. I loved this program. SPBTime isn't nearly as good and doesn't seem to wake the device.
    2. Directory assistant. Nothing nearly as useful as this program (when it worked) on WM5. I tried one or two that were very lacking.

    Also have to mention the threaded SMS, this is something I really miss. The lock on the Treo was nice. The hardware volume switch cool too.



    I will finish this post later I have more thoughts, but I most go because I have company.
  13. #53  
    I just got my ppc-6700 (had my 650 since november 2004, and used Palm since 1998 or so). My initial impressions: WOW, this thing is awesome. I love the features so far (and I hate Microsoft). I just flashed to the new firmware, and am loading everything up now.

    I think I'm gonna like this thing...once I get my slingbox mobile player, xm player, and sirius player, I'm not going to miss my treo at all...
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by ls3mach
    80 pixles. lol

    320x320=102,400
    240x320=076,800
    =025,600

    I believe that is roughly 25% less realastate.

    Whoever said the PPC-6700 has a better screen is nuts. The 650s screen is brighter and crisper and has much better color. Although I do enjoy surfing in landscape mode.
    i know the ramifications of subtracting 80 pixels on one side...

    depends on what you call real estate. think of it as property, my lawn is not very thick. just because my neighbor has more blades of grass, does not mean he has more real estate than i. now, his lawn might look better...

    only place i will miss the resolution is vnc....
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    Hobbes, please link to exactly where people have gotten A2DP working on a Sprint 6700.

    Also, you're obviously heavily biased as I'm sure everyone can tell. Claiming that the 650 PROBABLY has better battery life is moronic. Sorry, but it's true. Stock to stock it's not even close. Add in that you can get a 2400mAh battery the same size as stock with the 650 and can only get a pathetic 1500mAh battery on the 6700.

    The 650 also supports a full-sized SD card which is currently up to 4GB and costs under $200. You can't even come close to that with miniSD.
    650 only supports up to 2 gb cards, unless you do custom rom.

    today a 2 gb mini sd was unveiled in japan.
  16. #56  
    I was unaware of A2DP being available for the 650. Is it only the Sprint version?

    Also, Hobbes isn't biased, it's just that he seems to have gotten more productive use out of WM than Palm OS. I have warmed up to WM5 myself, but the 650 is still working fine for me too. But let's face it, Garnet is now limited.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by ls3mach
    Hobbes you mentioned that you have found 3rd party equivlents on the PPC side. I have not however found 2 very useful (to me) programs.
    1. Bob's Alarm. I loved this program. SPBTime isn't nearly as good and doesn't seem to wake the device.
    2. Directory assistant. Nothing nearly as useful as this program (when it worked) on WM5. I tried one or two that were very lacking.
    1) I personally use SPBTime for my alarms when I am on the road all the time. You are right there is a glitch with the WM OS sometimes with waking up the phone with alarms, but there is a Reg Hack to fix this. I will have to search it out again, or if you have Tweak2K, it will do it for you.

    2) I got feed up with DA working and not working so much on Treo that I just switched to Pocket Express. I just carried that over to my PPC. There is a thread on this very subject the WM Apps forum that might give you some good direction for alternatives as well.

    I hope this helps.
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by BigKenny
    650 only supports up to 2 gb cards, unless you do custom rom.

    today a 2 gb mini sd was unveiled in japan.

    2GB has been available for months, maybe you meant 4GB?
  19. #59  
    A2DP is available on any version of the 650.

    I've also never found anything equivalent to DA on the 6700. The same goes for Butler, Chatter, VolumeCare, PubMedOnTap and a couple of others.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by ls3mach
    2GB has been available for months, maybe you meant 4GB?
    crack doesnt smoke itself....not really sure what i read...

    sorry
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