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  1. ls3mach's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by originalminds
    Having used the Treo 650 for a year and then purchased and tried the ppc 6700(identical to the 8125 and Verizon's XV6700), I would be happy to say that, hands down, the 650 is by far the superior device. Even when you take into account the 6700's ability (and the 650's inability) to use high speed data (EVDO), the Treo is a far more functional device. While the 6700 has this great, roomy keyboard, the fact that it hides away is more an inconvenience when the novelty wears off. Windows Mobile 5, in this iteration cannot seem to compare to the Palm OS (whatever version is running on the 650). The OS seriously detracts from any benefit you get (novelty or otherwise) from the hardware. The OS is slow and gets slower the busier you get with the device. As you open programs and then switch to other programs, they all stay open and running, competing for resources. If you don't stop and use a utility to shut down those programs your device will slow down and eventually hang forcing you to reset the device. The versions of word and excel are not measurably better than Dataviz's versions in Documents To Go. As a PIM, mobile 5's outlook is no better than the native palm PIM and really, in my opinion, seriously inferior to a good Palm email client like SnapperMail.

    After a month of trying the PPC 6700 I put it on Ebay and went back to my Treo 650.

    I cannot honestly that in the year I used my Treo I experienced fewer problems than I did in the month I used the PPC6700/windows mobile 5 device(virtually same device as 8152/XV6700).
    Wow, you are dogging the 6700 pretty hard. I have to disagree and say your opinion seems more than a little biased. I currently own both devices. I have had my Treo 650 since November of 2004. Honestly I think the PPC-6700 is a better device. I am not fond of the sliding keyboard, it is somewhat a novelty, but I use it a TON. All the time infact. I wish the device would just stay in landscape mode, this would save me a lot of time during my day. I miss using my Treo 650 sometimes as things were "easier". Things like contact lookup and other SIMPLE task. Emphasis on the simple. Everything else the 6700 does better. The os is slightly more sluggish, but you will get used to it and adapt. The Treo 650 was sluggish compared to the 600 when it was first released aswell, due to NVFS vs VFS. I eventually got used to it and now I dont even think the device is sluggish. The 650 cannot do most of the things the PPC-6700 can out of the box. It has a skimpy amount of ram, no wifi, a really crummy bluetooth (stack and radio), doesnt support MP3 out of the box (ringtones or even playback), out of the box doesnt read office programs (yes it comes with doc2go, but I barely had enough room to install this piece of software and I HAD to install it as it was only included on the CD-ROM). The PPC-6700 has EVDO and you can be surfing the net and get a phone call without it being sent to voicemail. This was horrible on the Treo 650, anytime I was expecting an important call, this meant no internet. The most important benifit that my 6700 has over my 650 though is call quality. From day 1 people complained about my voice being choppy when calling from my 650. I have yet to hear this complaint about the 6700.

    Dont take this post as a 650 sucks post. I loved my Treo 650. I had a Treo 600 before it that I was rather fond of aswell. I recieved my 650 before most (most being the average consumer not associated with these types of online boards) people even knew it was coming out. I had it before many people on these boards even had theirs. I have used my Treo 650 for well over 10,000 minutes. I have put in GBs worth of data usage, both tethering and over 1xRTT. I am very technical savy. Rest assured when I say the 650 is inferior, I have lots of reasons backing my statement. I bought both of my devices outright seperate from carrier contracts. If I didnt love the 6700 I wouldnt use it, I would be using whatever else I felt was superior. The 650 was excellent and completely destroys the 6700 in one handedness, IE simple task. Everywhere else though, the 650 is behind the 6700. WM5 completely destroys Palms current iteration of their OS. I miss using my Treo 650 sometimes, but in all honesty anyone buying a new device should be aware it isnt the best thing on the block. It is great and I dont tell anyone considering buying one not to, I am just saying that for the $600 you are paying for one the PPC-6700 has tons more features for the same money. I think the Treo 650 is still a great device 1.5 years later, but it isnt $600 good anymore.

    Any questions anyone has, let me know.
  2. #22  
    I appreciate your reply...

    Having been in the tech industry as a programmer and in wireless networking I can say I offer an informed opinion.

    I will grant you that the wifi is a nice touch and if that was my focus I would stop there. My main gripe for the 6700 (and like HTC devices) is the dramatically poor phone/pda integration. The OS seems to be in it's infancy and operates as such. while this OS should handle multitasking without effort (through geneology alone, wouldn't you say?) it does a poor job. And I would point back to how the device/OS handles resource allocation and memory.

    I would say that this device does have it's upsides (wifi and evdo being the biggest I see) I would say the 650 is by far the superior device in usability and dependability. You are right...not $600 worthy...but I will gladly spend $600 for the next iteration of the Palm OS treo (with evdo).
  3. #23  
    To each his/her own...
    --Can you automatically dial from an email message you get from a contact on a 650? That's an example of WM phone/PDA integration.

    --Dependability? It's been the Achilles heel of Treo since the beginning. Spend twenty minutes reviewing the Treo fora here.

    -- The only indisputable superiority claim of the Treo -relative to the HTC devices- is one-handedness.

    -- The Treo may still be the most promising device, but many of us are still waiting for a worthy, dependable version with a 21st century OS. I'm guessing the migration to WM will continue and that the Treo W will be the only one that survives the decade. The Palm OS has been sold again and there's no telling what will happen to it beyond Access's commitment to Linux: http://www.access.co.jp/english/press/060214.html. This will be exciting to many, but how many current Treo users will it serve? We'll see what happens to the Treo, and maybe separately to Access's Palm OS. Treo success has inspired many of the improvements we've seen in other platforms; so we all need it to improve and thrive.
    You may be right; I may be crazy. But, the Treo may be just the device I've been looking for.
  4. ls3mach's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by originalminds
    I appreciate your reply...

    Having been in the tech industry as a programmer and in wireless networking I can say I offer an informed opinion.

    I will grant you that the wifi is a nice touch and if that was my focus I would stop there. My main gripe for the 6700 (and like HTC devices) is the dramatically poor phone/pda integration. The OS seems to be in it's infancy and operates as such. while this OS should handle multitasking without effort (through geneology alone, wouldn't you say?) it does a poor job. And I would point back to how the device/OS handles resource allocation and memory.

    I would say that this device does have it's upsides (wifi and evdo being the biggest I see) I would say the 650 is by far the superior device in usability and dependability. You are right...not $600 worthy...but I will gladly spend $600 for the next iteration of the Palm OS treo (with evdo).
    bloody hell. I hit the wrong damn button and lost my post.
  5. ls3mach's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by originalminds
    I appreciate your reply...

    Having been in the tech industry as a programmer and in wireless networking I can say I offer an informed opinion.

    I will grant you that the wifi is a nice touch and if that was my focus I would stop there. My main gripe for the 6700 (and like HTC devices) is the dramatically poor phone/pda integration. The OS seems to be in it's infancy and operates as such. while this OS should handle multitasking without effort (through geneology alone, wouldn't you say?) it does a poor job. And I would point back to how the device/OS handles resource allocation and memory.

    I would say that this device does have it's upsides (wifi and evdo being the biggest I see) I would say the 650 is by far the superior device in usability and dependability. You are right...not $600 worthy...but I will gladly spend $600 for the next iteration of the Palm OS treo (with evdo).
    You want to talk about some crap that hacks me off. I just typed up a very nicely worded post from my PPC-6700 to prove a point of how well the device performed. I then hit the "go" button next to the URL, instead of the "submit replay" button.

    I am on my PC now and will try and retype it exactly as it was, although now I am pissed and doubtful that I will recall all the things I had initially said.

    First let me say, that I noticed last night when I was replying to your post, that it was your first post on these boards. I thought initially it was a trolling post, by someone who had created an alt. I generally dont care for new users on web forums, until they have shown they are mature and have some common sense. Having said that, I think I was most certainly incorrect. You replied to my post in an adult manor and didnt take my differing views personal or get emotionally attached to your post. I commed you on that, as it is not something I see often.

    I agree with you that the current version of WM5 leaves much to be desired. The memory management is horrible. What multi-tasking OS doesnt allow you to natively leave an application. It doesnt allow you to alt/tab either. So you have a program running in memory, consuming resources, and saving its exact state, but you cannot close or get back to the program easily. It basically just uses your memory for no reason whatsoever. I installed a 3rd party application to deal with this, magic button. This program however seems to seriously degrade the performance of my device. I hear it is one of the smallest foot-print memory managers too. It still doesn't allow alt/tabbing and the icons it places on the task bar are too small to press with your fingers. So you must remove the stylus to change programs. I saw someone mentioned that you can call a number directly from email, while I haven't attempted this yet, I have tried to call one from an SMS. I would think it would be handled in the same fashion. The person was right you can just dial the number, except a little dialogue box pops up asking if you want to call the number. I would be fine with this, but this yes/no buttons are TINY and I have a hard time clicking them with my finger. To make matters worse the focus of the 5-way isn't on that screen, so you have to get the stylus out to select yes. I can go on with many more things that WM5 the OS is lacking. Where is the dot saying whether the keyboard is in numeric mode or caps lock or even shifted. The one-handedness of the OS is simply lacking. The 5-way attempts to remedy this along with the soft keys, but the finishing touches that the developers missed are very apparent, atleast to me.

    Having said all of that. The Palm OS is terrible in its own right. It is definetly a dated OS. There is no multi-tasking to speak of. It does simple things rather well and that is about it. I had originally typed this entire post from my PPC-6700. I spent the better part of half an hour doing this. I did it for a couple reasons. I was mostly going to show how capable of a device it was. The keyboard is more than adequate for typing long post such as this. While I was typing it up initailly, I recieved and replied to about a dozen text messages, took a phone call and even stopped to use the restroom. I never would have tried it from my Treo 650. Anytime I surfed the net or web forums on my Treo I would rarely reply as it was a major hassle and usually used the mobile versions of most sites. With my 6700 I always use the full version (combonation of PIE being fairly decent and EVDO speeds). With my Treo 650, one text message or a phone call could have really messed up my replying to a post and I would have lost all the information I had previously typed, so any kind of lengthy post was absolutely out of the question.

    I really liked the Treo 650 and thought it was a great device. It truely lacked a lot of things though. MP3 support, web browseing that was usable. The camera was reallly crummy. Wifi, decent bluetooth stack and radio. RF quality wasnt great either. I had quite of few dropped or missed calls. The 650 wasnt bad, it is still quite good. $600 good though, not with the other options available to you currently.

    I have never had a bunch of problems with either OS crashing. I had bad call quality with my Treo 650, lots of people saying "huh?" if I didnt speak loudly. I have had really good call quality with my 6700. I dont really blame this as much on the OS as I do hardware. Although Palm could have made a better job making sure the radios operated well and that the rom was functioning properly with them.

    I see from your post you plan on purchasing a new Palm Treo. I hope you like it, but the specs for a new device are still behind the specs for my 6700. I am not going to run down the comparison as you are most likely familiar with both. The Palm OS just isnt THAT great. It is more polished than WM5, which given the oppertunity I think I could tweak the hell out of and make a really great one-handed and capable OS, but it lacks many more features and options. It is way behind in terms of features than WM5, I think.

    Lonzo
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodolfo
    To each his/her own...
    --Can you automatically dial from an email message you get from a contact on a 650? That's an example of WM phone/PDA integration.

    --Dependability? It's been the Achilles heel of Treo since the beginning. Spend twenty minutes reviewing the Treo fora here.

    -- The only indisputable superiority claim of the Treo -relative to the HTC devices- is one-handedness.

    -- The Treo may still be the most promising device, but many of us are still waiting for a worthy, dependable version with a 21st century OS. I'm guessing the migration to WM will continue and that the Treo W will be the only one that survives the decade. The Palm OS has been sold again and there's no telling what will happen to it beyond Access's commitment to Linux: http://www.access.co.jp/english/press/060214.html. This will be exciting to many, but how many current Treo users will it serve? We'll see what happens to the Treo, and maybe separately to Access's Palm OS. Treo success has inspired many of the improvements we've seen in other platforms; so we all need it to improve and thrive.
    I agree...the only thing the Treo has over the 8125 is the one handed form factor.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by originalminds
    While the 6700 has this great, roomy keyboard, the fact that it hides away is more an inconvenience when the novelty wears off.
    In your opinion, of course. Most of the time, I just use the on-screen keyboard. For longer messages, I break out the keyboard. A lot of Treo users have had 3+ years experience in adjusting to the Treo keyboard. I'm sure my typing on the 6700 will be as good if not better than on the 650 in a month. I'll take the two seconds to open the keyboard if it means I can have a nice big landscape screen the rest of the time.


    Quote Originally Posted by originalminds
    Windows Mobile 5, in this iteration cannot seem to compare to the Palm OS (whatever version is running on the 650). The OS seriously detracts from any benefit you get (novelty or otherwise) from the hardware. The OS is slow and gets slower the busier you get with the device. As you open programs and then switch to other programs, they all stay open and running, competing for resources. If you don't stop and use a utility to shut down those programs your device will slow down and eventually hang forcing you to reset the device.
    I don't even know where to begin to respond to this. Comparing POS favorably with WM OS brings you on the brink of losing all credibility. It's one thing to say that Palm has better apps from a developer base that has had more experience with smartphones and a larger target audience.

    But the OS argument - I just don't get it. I've applied a good number of hacks and can have 7-8 programs open at once, with little to no slow down (including, say, some combination of NetFront, Egress, Resco Explorer, Resco PhotoViewer, Messaging, XPDF, GSPlayer). I've installed Magic Button, but only use it to show a list of running apps and the battery meter. I actually turned off the option to automatically close apps because it's not an issue. No freezes, no resets for sure. Soft resets occur ONLY when I have to swap batteries.


    Quote Originally Posted by originalminds
    The versions of word and excel are not measurably better than Dataviz's versions in Documents To Go. As a PIM, mobile 5's outlook is no better than the native palm PIM and really, in my opinion, seriously inferior to a good Palm email client like SnapperMail.
    We agree on this point. I can honestly say that EVERY included app from Microsoft needs to be replaced by a real 3rd party app on any WM device.

    -I'm not sure what the replacement for messaging is, although I have downloaded QMail to try out. As bad as Messaging is, it's in a different league than VersaFail IMO.

    -As I've said before, "I thought DTG was a piece of garbage, well, Pocket Word and Excel constitute the landfill itself."

    -Pocket IE motivated me to get a replacement browser on the very first use.

    -The PIM apps exhibit some very strange behavior.

    The lack of options and features in the built-in apps is disgusting to say the least, but the 3rd party options are as good in most cases and usually better than the POS 3rd party apps.

    All IMO, of course.
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
  8. #28  
    I appreciate your reply.

    I think the credibility issue is with WM5...Look at your statement "I've applied a good number of hacks ...". This was my experience. I was surfing for os/app fixes (could not find a one), out of the box the PPC 6700 was not set up for the sprint evdo goodies (picture and video mail, ringtones and wallpapers, etc...) and was told by sprint that the sprint vision site (for handhelds) was (still is) unavailable to ppc 6700 users.

    I appreciate folks liking for a particular device (kind of like how I feel for the palm os and treo) but I have to say that as immature as the WM5 os is (again, think of the amount of work you have to do to make it work the way you want it to...and my god...resets daily) I am satisfied with the stability of the palm os. I don't have any work arounds or hacks in place. I do avoid the native apps completely but the replacements I use work seamlessly with the os. Here is the clincher: the treo and palm os work the way I want it to right out of the box...sure I need additional/third party apps to enhance productivity but the device and os work flawlessly.

    Please understand...with the number of devices I have used (and do use them...exhaustively) I understand what works to light one man's fire may pour water on another's.
    palm IIIc >>> palm VII >>> handspring visor prism >>> sony clie tj37 >>> treo 600 >>> treo 650 >>> sprint ppc 6700 >>> treo 650 >>> treo 700p???
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