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  1. vw2002's Avatar
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    #61  
    that is absolutely ugly. the keyboard is positively miniscule - typing on that thing would be an exercise in pure frustration. screen res is down compared to the treo 650. yes it has more memory, wifi and faster processor, but the critical draw to a treo is its keyboard, which is horrible on that thing. thats more of a treo wanna-be than a treo-killer in my opinion
  2.    #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by vw2002
    that is absolutely ugly. the keyboard is positively miniscule - typing on that thing would be an exercise in pure frustration. screen res is down compared to the treo 650. yes it has more memory, wifi and faster processor, but the critical draw to a treo is its keyboard, which is horrible on that thing. thats more of a treo wanna-be than a treo-killer in my opinion
    I'm a firm believer that a picture is worth a 1000 words. Small widely spaced keys are supposed to be easier to type on than larger unspaced keys, with less risk of mis-keying for any given finger size, both large and small. As an example, compare these two keyboards, the one from the Loox 830, the other from the SE 990i.



    I certainly know which one I prefer.

    Regarding the looks of the Loox Fujitsu Siemens have always gone for the solid German professional look, so people would not be embarrassed to take out their PDA in a business environment. They do note make flashy toys.

    Surur
    Last edited by surur; 01/22/2006 at 03:45 PM.
  3. #63  
    surur, I agree completely about which keyboard design is better. All the more interesting that by this rule, the 600's keyboard is better than the 650's, which (contrary to the opinion of many others here) I would agree with. I find that I accidentally hit nearby keys far more often with my 650 than I ever did with the 600.

    As to the subject of whether the Treo is still the device to beat. I'd say that the Treo 650 is still the device to beat. I specify the 650 because:
    1) Recent reviews of the 700w have made note of the fact that the 650 is better in terms of overall usability.
    2) The only big feature advancement of the 700w for average folks is Ev-DO. Hardly insignificant, but that's pretty much it. The 1.3MP camera may not be better in terms of overall PQ compared to the 650. WM vs Palm OS? Highly subjective. Screen? Downgraded. Other feature improvements (e.g., better Bluetooth performance) are certainly useful, but not something that will make the papers.
    3) Price and availability. I could split this into 3 and 4, but I'll be lazy. You can get the 650 for as low as $100 after rebates/contracts and you can get it from any carrier you choose. The geeks here may consider low price as a nice "extra", but for the majority of consumers, if the price isn't within a certain amount, they're not even going to waste time looking at the feature list. And contrary to popular opinion, corporations aren't buying expensive cell phones for their employees en masse.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  4. #64  
    I think it look boss! I think its boxy shape and the draker color gives it a much more professional look.....Looks like something the febs or the CIA would use.

    Shame about the triband. I don't want to deal with importing either. I don't want to buy it from expansys and pray it doesn't go back.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I'm a firm believer that a picture is worth a 1000 words. Small widely spaced keys are supposed to be easier to type on than larger unspaced keys, with less risk of mis-keying for any given finger size, both large and small. As an example, compare these two keyboards, the one from the Loox 830, the other from the SE 990i.



    I certainly know which one I prefer.

    Regarding the looks of the Loox Fujitsu Siemens have always gone for the solid German professional look, so people would not be embarrassed to take out their PDA in a business environment. They do note make flashy toys.

    Surur
    judging on the photos alone you can have both of them!
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    I'm just saying that Palm has made sure that the Treo is no longer the clear standard which all others are playing catch up.

    EVDO only works as an alternative to the Blackberry costs.

    Regarding the 700w, I'm just calling it like it is and prefer that purchasers can appreciate the negatives before they jump. Palm pulled a 650 all over again and purchasers should know where the corners are cut. The fact remains it's a good phone but not more than a mediocre long term consumer solution.
    blacberry costs? they're not exactly giving the data away either, unless that is you are with a non-verizon provider. you are not calling it as it is, you don't even own the bloody damn device. it works out of the box my man, not sure what other validation it is that you need.

    what device do you use?
  7. slinky's Avatar
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    #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez
    blacberry costs? they're not exactly giving the data away either, unless that is you are with a non-verizon provider. you are not calling it as it is, you don't even own the bloody damn device. it works out of the box my man, not sure what other validation it is that you need.
    what device do you use?
    1) I'm calling it exactly as it is regarding the costs. At the price of Sprint's regular Internet access speed you can EASILY get simple email in the same way that most corp's get push email via the Blackberry. Some used to have it utilizing software I cannot remember but it was pure push. The overwhelming majority of the time EVDO makes a difference is web surfing, which most don't/shouldn't need for business where the BB is used as intented.

    2) A friend splurged on the 700w and I was able to check it before return. I've also owned WM devices so I know full well about how the software works. I also can read. Just because a car works out of the lot doesn't mean that 2 blocks down I'll find out that the drive isn't great. And in the case of the Treo, at least we've been forewarned that it comes with a small gas tank and poor, costly options for the sound system. At least when buying a Treo 700w everyone has been made fully aware of the limitations before purchase.

    Currently, I've decided to continue using my 650. Other than the Internet access issue, it works well as a phone and I've optimized my software to fit with the RAM limitation. I'll be jumping ship to WM in the near future.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7
    ...I think it look boss! I think its boxy shape and the draker color gives it a much more professional look.....Looks like something the febs or the CIA would use...
    I agree, it looks kinda cool. For anyone into film/movie cameras, it reminds me of the plain-but-tough looking Krasnogorsk-3 cameras in the former Soviet Union. Simple design, mostly black, but that's what gave them a killer look!
  9. #69  
    [QUOTE=slinky]1) I'm calling it exactly as it is regarding the costs. At the price of Sprint's regular Internet access speed you can EASILY get simple email in the same way that most corp's get push email via the Blackberry. Some used to have it utilizing software I cannot remember but it was pure push. The overwhelming majority of the time EVDO makes a difference is web surfing, which most don't/shouldn't need for business where the BB is used as intented[QUOTE]

    for the record, the "redirector" software that is included with both Blackberries and Treos (for those not utilizing the Blackberry or Goodlink enterprise servers) are weak in my opinion. information for me is not good unless it is timely, as in real time. the redirector software requires that one keep his desktop on, one is also limited by the speed in which the server pushes the email back out to the handheld device (my experience was that it would take as little as 5 minutes and as much as 15minutes at peak times (for me that is 5am-1pm). some software applications don't allow you to see anything but the inbox (some don't allow for subfolders and the like). i do believe they have made advances to push technology (via software) over the years. as for EVDO, i don't know about you, but i like to get timely headlines and news stories on the fly, i don't have time to sit there and wait for painful downloads. EVDO/EDGE does suit a business person and is also included on the new 8700 for that reason. Everyone wants faster, some only want it if it's free, i don't care either way, but they want faster, that i can assure you. you're not going to tell me you like slower download speeds, are you?

    regards
  10. vw2002's Avatar
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    #70  
    comparing t600 keyboard to the t650, the keys were very stiff and uncomfortable to use. typing on the 650 is dramatically better than on the 600, less typing errors without question, and i had the 600 for 2 years. i find it funny that some prefer keyboards with tiny little keys spaced out from each other to those found on the treo or blackberry. MAYBE you could say there is less of a chance of misstyping, but....thats a big maybe.

    On the comfort level, i just dont see how the fujitsu model would be a favorite among heavy mobile email users. seriously. to each their own and all, but really i have to think the majority prefers the 650 kb or blackberry kb to the 600`s or others similar.

    Why didnt RIMM place a keyboard like that of the fujitsu phone onto its blackberries if it is so much more efficient, comfortable and less prone to typing errors? i can`t buy that claim. just my opinion.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    1) I'm calling it exactly as it is regarding the costs. At the price of Sprint's regular Internet access speed you can EASILY get simple email in the same way that most corp's get push email via the Blackberry. Some used to have it utilizing software I cannot remember but it was pure push. The overwhelming majority of the time EVDO makes a difference is web surfing, which most don't/shouldn't need for business where the BB is used as intented.
    Say that to someone that actually needs to use the pda/phone replacements to send a Powerpoint/MS Word/Excel file that exceeds 2MB (believe me... the market is large). The promies of EVDO speed and freedom from GPRS speed in sending emails is easily enough for REAL business users to switch to an EVDO solution.

    Just my .02, but honestly anyone that uses pda/phone solutions regard the ability to multitask and speed paramount (besides battery consumption which the Treo scores better than most if not all PDA/phone combos). In this scenario, I think the 700w is a great machine that should last quite a while. As a 650 owner the following are MAJOR pluses:

    1. EVDO speed in terms of downloading and UPLOADING material
    2. The ability to actually multi-task
    3. Long battery life
    4. The fact I do not need to spend money on new accessories is big

    Your argument regarding the memory is less meaningful as most user that complain about this are POWER users which is a significantly differenct market than business users. Mulitmedia movies and mp3 ability is very low on my list of reasons to own a pda/phone combo. But maybe I am different than you and the market you see as pda/phone users.

    Moppet52
  12. slinky's Avatar
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    #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by moppet52
    Say that to someone that actually needs to use the pda/phone replacements to send a Powerpoint/MS Word/Excel file that exceeds 2MB (believe me... the market is large). The promies of EVDO speed and freedom from GPRS speed in sending emails is easily enough for REAL business users to switch to an EVDO solution.
    EVDO is a real issue. But the number of people that need to send files using EVDO like a 2MB PPT file is miniscule. It is far less than those who will notice a memory limitation. And for most it's a nice convenience when they use the web browser. I'd like it but not worth 400 plus a two year ball and chain.

    Just my .02, but honestly anyone that uses pda/phone solutions regard the ability to multitask and speed paramount (besides battery consumption which the Treo scores better than most if not all PDA/phone combos). In this scenario, I think the 700w is a great machine that should last quite a while. As a 650 owner the following are MAJOR pluses:

    1. EVDO speed in terms of downloading and UPLOADING material
    2. The ability to actually multi-task
    3. Long battery life
    4. The fact I do not need to spend money on new accessories is big

    Your argument regarding the memory is less meaningful as most user that complain about this are POWER users which is a significantly differenct market than business users. Mulitmedia movies and mp3 ability is very low on my list of reasons to own a pda/phone combo. But maybe I am different than you and the market you see as pda/phone users.
    Who is talking about MP3 and multimedia? To begin, I'd bet that there will be an OVERWHELMINGLY larger number of people using the 700w as an MP3 player than they will in sending 2MB MS Office files - from their Palm device. In addition, it's not just about multitasking like on your PC. It's built a different way than the Palm for a reason and as such you can find people all over the place here who are experiencing memory errors regularly. Sure you can close out applications but why are you doing so with regularity? When Microsoft says the recommended spec is 64MB of RAM for WM5 that is what it means. And given the beef of applications, I'd say that if you're sending 2MB files then you will unquestionably be furious when your MS Office apps don't have enough memory to stay opena nd switch, like having your Pocket Outlook, Word and Excel open to see the files you've just received.

    The bottom line is that Palm did it again and they figure that a good enough sample of people will rationalize why its great after the 14 day return period. But once the Loox comes out and these other great phones, I'm not even looking at Palm any more. Their reputation will remain intact as the company that cuts the corners significantly somewhere to put just a tad more bread in their pocket. See ya!
  13. #73  
    I think the main problem with this phone is that Siemens-Fujitsu may not bring this phone over here. The n500/520 has been on sale in UK for couple months but we don't have it.

    Also hasn't the phone division of Siemens been sold to Benq/Acer? How does Fujitsu-Siemens fit into the picture?
  14.    #74  
    FSC plans to expand distribution to USA, and their PDA devision is unrelated to the dumbphone devision. Unfortunately this still does not say much about the availability of the device, due to the poorer availability of GSM and w-cdma in USA.

    Surur
  15. #75  
    I like! But it looks like it will cost roughly one meeeleon dollars.
  16. Blario's Avatar
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    #76  
    The BIG difference is ergonometics, popularity, and fashion. Look at the iPod, its a overprices brick that just now started to work right, but has been a selling phemonimon. It hit pop culture where it was 'cool' to own one and then started to sell like crazy. The 700w would prolly reach similar heights, except for the fact other Treos will take away its glory before the end of the year. Then there'll be too many versions and it wont be 'cool' to own any particular one.

    I thought the E61 was the big treo killer in my mind. I just cant wait any longer to get a new phone. It'll prolly cost close to a grand too. Plus its GSM right now and being localized in DC most of the year, I could never switch away from VZW's godly signal coverage (service below ground, WHAT WHAT!). That, customer service, and blazing EV-DO tethered to laptop.

    Iono about no Razrberry giving the 700w a run for its money. Treo is TOO popular. That and the Q really lacking on specs (touch-screen, SD, wifi, cant even use SD wifi card, and I'm sure other ish). Motorola is butchering that project horrible. Look at their track record with other, supposed to be godly, smartphone releases that they had little to no competition on. MPX-???. Treo is still owning all right now.

    I think the is actually really cheap right now too. $500 with long contract, $100 with unlmt'd data, another $100 w/ free every 2 (my case), lol- sell some ish (old pda and phone, my case), and its down to 200 bones! It's a wrap!

    Palm might still drop that unlrelease version of PALMOS on the new treos too, COBALT. Its crazy how they've never used it, its been done for a while, and prolly could mop the floor with WM05 simply because of how close the previous version comes to WM05.

    I'll take one.
    When and who do you think will have 3G here in the US?
    3g is ev-do on the cdma carriers, so its already here. as far as gsm it will be shortly.
    3G is a CDMA technology, but not limited to CDMA carriers. Most carriers in the US have it already. The only ones prolly not right now are T-mobile(planned for end of yr i think), and the localized ones like Alltel, US Celluar, and other ish.
  17. #77  
    Here's another peek at the FS Loox T8xx, this one in its cradle. I am somehow obsessed with how this thing "looks":

    http://www.solopalmari.com/content/view/1178/2/
  18. #78  
    Tons of links to pics here (including side by side with other devices like the Treo 700w), plus more specs and a blurb about worldwide availaility:

    http://www.firstloox.org/
  19. jorang's Avatar
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    #79  
    I think I'm waiting for this phone. Should be available mid summer in Europe.

    A new Palm model for Europe is rumoured to have WM anyway, and I sincerly doubt it will match this spec... (http://vilpublic.fujitsu-siemens.com...ket_loox_t.pdf)

    A few Q's:
    - I don't know the memory requirements of WM, but is RAM 64MB and ROM 128MB enough? How is it possible to utilize the SD-card in WM?
    - Is the screen going to be bright enough? The standard battery is just 1500mAh - and Treo 650 has 1800mAh if I'm not wrong. How long will the device survive on battery when using WiFi, GPS or Bluetooth connections...?
    - What does USB-'host' and USB-'Slave' capability mean? That phone is directly available from desktop, and visa versa?

    ...just wondering...
    JoranG
    Treo650 Unlocked GSM (Cust ROM 1.71/1.20 ENA w/ FAT32.prc) - TomTom Navigator v5 (Western Europe Maps)
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by jorang
    - Is the screen going to be bright enough? The standard battery is just 1500mAh and Treo 650 has 1800mAh if I'm not wrong. How long will the device survive on battery when using WiFi, GPS or Bluetooth connections...?
    The Treo 650 CDMA version has 5 hours and GSM version has 7.5. So you have 5/6ths of the Treo's batery, With Wifi and all that, larger screen, I'd expect maybe 3 hours CDMA and almost 5 with GSM.

    - What does USB-'host' and USB-'Slave' capability mean? That phone is directly available from desktop, and visa versa?
    The Treo is basically a one way USB device.....it's a slave. It seems to imply that this would allow you for example to connect a 500 MB USB drive w/o any special drivers or intermediate hardware.
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