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  1.    #1  
    HelloóItís been a long time since I did any posting; I hope you all remember me (:

    As some of you know already, Iíve decided to move away from my current Visor setup and in to a Pocket PC. Now donít stop reading this just because I said those Ďevilí words, and hear me out. The Pocket PC and Palm machines are vastly different products and as such should not be in direct competition with each other. Why? Hereís why:

    1. The PalmOS is bult around an operating system that was originally intended to be a PIM; this is not to say that it hasnít grown in to far more, but it saying that thatís how it was intended.
    2. The Pocket PC operating system or the OS formally known as WindowsCE is loosely based on the Windows operating system, and as a result, it is capable of more than the palmOS.

    This is not to say that the pocket pc operating platform has some major flaws:

    1. Pocket Word (which is the light version of word that is included in every pocket pcís rom) has some major flaws, such as: no spell check, no word count, and limited formatting options, this is still better IMHO than what is offered by TakeNote! (Which I might add is a wonderful application), as well as what is offered by MemoPad. Because of its inclusion in ROM and itís compatibility with MS word, I still think that pocket word is a little better, but there is room for improvement.
    2. Pocket Access and Pocket PowerPoint: the fact that they are absent entirely is disappointing.
    3. The thing about the fractioned processor; I really like how all of the palm clones all use one compatible processor, having at least 3 and maybe 4 different and incompatible processors is a drag.

    Having said all of this, I want to give the number one reason for my Ďdefectioní: Because itís right for me and in this matter, Iím the only one who really matters. I donít want you to think that I believe that everyone should dump their Palmís and move over to Pocket PC, I think that Pocket PCs should be considered, however, their not for everyone. As a matter of fact I recommended Visors over Pocket PCs to about 3 people this week alone, because there are some people for whom Visors are the best value and in my mind the only option for some people.

    If your wondering Iím not keeping my visor, or stowaway, the only reason for this is that I need the money for the iPaq, as it turns out my dad (who is keeping his Visor) is deciding to get vengeance on that CompUSA person who sold him the return policy, so I get full price back on my Visor, and Iíll have to eBay the stowaway (unless anyone here is interested).

    As for my place in this discussion board: Iím back. I believe that this posting should prove that my comments will be constructive. I will start to post to these groups again, and I hope to talk to you all.

    sam
    Sam Kleinman

    PocketPCThoughts.com
    CollectiveArts
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    CollectiveArts TechMusings

    "Everybody don't like something and we all don't like you." -- Richard Thompson, Hard Luck Stories
  2. #2  
    FYI -- there is an application out called WordSmith (www.bluenomad.com) that provides formatting options on the Palm .. this includes font size, bold, italics, underline, strikeout, indents (paragraph and line), justification (left, right, center, full), word count, Palm DOC support, tight integration with MS Word, etc..

    I do agree with you, it would be nice to have Pocket Access and Pocket Powerpoint built into the PocketPC -- with the processing power on those units, it seems like it would be very possible to use the PocketPC for powerpoint presentations (hook it up to a projector some how..) -- or if anything, allow the PocketPC to play presentations..

    Joe
  3. #3  
    I wouldn't mind checking out a Pocket PC but apparently us Macintosh owners aren't worthy of such a powerful and useful device, maybe sometime in the future . I know I'm really looking forward to watching a Brittany Spears video on a PDA .
    garinballbarin
  4.    #4  
    Like i said, the pocket PC isn't perfect, but for me at least its better than the palm.

    As for Word Smith: That looks like a great product I plan to try it out. (There still is one great visor in the house hold. and your right it may be better in the long run.

    About PocketAccess and PowerPoint: there is no reason at all that there can't be a Pocket Access, with 200 mghz there isn't a reason that I can think of that it shouldn't be included with the pocket pc operating system. and while i can understand the thinking behind the decistion not to include PowerPoint in the PockePC os, i don't aggree with it. it would be a simple matter for compaq or some CF or PC card manufacture and make a VGA out Card.

    sam
    Sam Kleinman

    PocketPCThoughts.com
    CollectiveArts
    Free-ePress
    Musings of a Teal Artist
    CollectiveArts TechMusings

    "Everybody don't like something and we all don't like you." -- Richard Thompson, Hard Luck Stories
  5. #5  
    I dunno, I think palm is starting to have a major comeback in features against pocketPC. Right now im really sold on the capabilities of TealMovie. And once palms and visors come out with better audio... well, ill be there. I was also thinking itd be neat if you could play MPG movies off a visor using a Minijam 64mb MMC and its audio capabilities. If handspring/minijam/tealmovie could come up with that capability id probably ditch my IIIc and go with a Visor Prism.

    And also like you said, one compatible processor type fits all. Except soon we'll have strongARMs. But so far it looks like the strongarm and dragonballs are going to be seamlessly intercompatible due to some of the ARM chipsets.
  6.    #6  
    Originally posted by b1lanceman
    I dunno, I think palm is starting to have a major comeback in features against pocketPC. Right now im really sold on the capabilities of TealMovie. And once palms and visors come out with better audio... well, ill be there. I was also thinking itd be neat if you could play MPG movies off a visor using a Minijam 64mb MMC and its audio capabilities. If handspring/minijam/tealmovie could come up with that capability id probably ditch my IIIc and go with a Visor Prism.

    And also like you said, one compatible processor type fits all. Except soon we'll have strongARMs. But so far it looks like the strongarm and dragonballs are going to be seamlessly intercompatible due to some of the ARM chipsets.
    I truly respect palm, and what it is; and if palm (and thus handspring) can bring the power of its machines up to a level that is about equal to where ppc's are and will be, then belive me I'll be right in line to by the Handspring equivelent of what ever palm comes out with. But untill then I for my needs i will be using a pocket pc.

    If the arm and dragonball chipsets are the same and everything is compatable (even if it is in a emeulation mode) then I think that should be fine.

    Video and other forms of multi media are a catogorie that I belive all hand helds need to work on. THe pocket pc dose this the best right now, I expect that palm will start to become competive in this area soon; however, it must be said that untill some things are done to the palm hardware such as the inclustion of better audio, resolution, and processing power; I don't belive that palm is quite ready for this, and since they aren't doing anything with the strongarm untill 2002 it will probly be arund that time that we see somthing of an improvement in this area.

    The bigest problem I have with palm's policy on the ARM is that they aren't going to use it because it's faster or more powerfull, their going to use it because it is more compatable with phones. Also don't count on having ARMs in your visor for a while yet, Palm has stated that they aren't incorprating the ARM in to their line untill 2002, wich in this markt is almost an eternity.

    ttfn.

    sam
    Sam Kleinman

    PocketPCThoughts.com
    CollectiveArts
    Free-ePress
    Musings of a Teal Artist
    CollectiveArts TechMusings

    "Everybody don't like something and we all don't like you." -- Richard Thompson, Hard Luck Stories
  7. #7  
    Originally posted by Celchu19
    2. The Pocket PC operating system or the OS formally known as WindowsCE is loosely based on the Windows operating system, and as a result, it is capable of more than the palmOS.

    If you don't mind my asking, what does the IPaq do that the Palm OS doesn't?
  8. #8  
    Originally posted by John Nowak
    Originally posted by Celchu19
    2. The Pocket PC operating system or the OS formally known as WindowsCE is loosely based on the Windows operating system, and as a result, it is capable of more than the palmOS.

    If you don't mind my asking, what does the IPaq do that the Palm OS doesn't?
    It allows for multitasking (among other things).

    Personally, I love my VPL and hate anything made by M$, but wish Palm would come out w/ OS 5.0 already (which, as you probably know, will supposedly allow for multitasking, improved multimedia features, higher resolution/larger screens etc.).
    Life's just a blast, just it's moving really fast, and you'd <BR>better stay on top or life'll kick you in the *** -Limp Bizkit
  9. #9  
    Originally posted by parb33

    It allows for multitasking (among other things).
    [/B]
    Let me rephrase the question. What does the PocketPC do with multitasking that makes it a useful feature to have?

    More seriously, most (but admittedly not all) of the programs written for the Palm OS work quickly enough that multitasking isn't going to get you much: the only exceptions I can think of offhand is QeD when it's compressing and saving a DOC format file, and presumably applications saving to a large database. Granted, SETI@HOME for the Palm OS isn't likely to be possible, but a mobile device running off batteries won't last long with the processor maxed out.

    What are these mysterious "other things?"

    Originally posted by parb33

    Personally, I love my VPL and hate anything made by M$, but wish Palm would come out w/ OS 5.0 already (which, as you probably know, will supposedly allow for multitasking, improved multimedia features, higher resolution/larger screens etc.). [/B]
    Yeah, the higher resolution screen is a good one. Hopefully that'll be up on the Palm OS before my vision goes to the point where I'll actually need it.
  10.    #10  
    Windows CE (pocket pc) can do the following things that Palm OS can't.

    1. Support higher resolutions. While OS 5 will suopsedly do this too, it isn't here yet, and by the time it is the curent crop of pocket pcs will be rather dated.

    2. Support multi-media.
    a)I know you can play video on your palm right now, but with the resolution and processor short comming, this is a joke. While it may be technialy viable it isn't practical.
    b)I know about the mini-jam and the soundsgood, and they are great things, however, they are esentialy seprate units, that use the visor for an interface (albit a very cool interface) and a battery pack. They have their own processors, and can function without the visors if neccassary.

    2. Support a wider rage of add ons. Maby this one isn't so much a function of the software, and more a function of the hard ware, but I'll include it in any case. The Pocket PC supports stnaderdized harware (CompactFLASH and PCMCIA), and while the spring bord is simly ingeniuos, I'd love to see handspring or Some other company make a pocket pc, or maby linux based PDA, with a SB slot, untill we start to see other types of divices with spring bord slots, such as laptops and other types of PDAs, the SB slot just won't standerdized enough to be efictive. I have a problem with priporitory stnaderds, and I'd have to say that Sony is doing a better job with the memory stick, because it is used in many diffrent types of products (even if, thy are all sony made); but i digress.

    sam
    Sam Kleinman

    PocketPCThoughts.com
    CollectiveArts
    Free-ePress
    Musings of a Teal Artist
    CollectiveArts TechMusings

    "Everybody don't like something and we all don't like you." -- Richard Thompson, Hard Luck Stories
  11. #11  
    The Pocket PC operating system or the OS formally known as WindowsCE is loosely based on the Windows operating system, and as a result, it is capable of more than the palmOS.
    I don't know if I totally agree with that. The Palm OS is a pretty amazing OS. I find that fact that the Palm OS omits some features (ie Multitasking, video, and, as much as I hate to say it, low resolution) is actually a GOOD thing. It keeps things simple. The great thing about Palm Apps is that the designers have to actually work hard deciding what NOT to put into the program. More features isn't always better...

    As for not having Pocket Access and Pocket Powerpoint...I find that a good thing! Access is bloatware to begin with. I doubt MS will ever get around to making Access for the Pocket PC (FYI...Filemaker has a Palm version out). And as for Powerpoint. Ugh. I don't want that spreading to ANYTHING more. Powerpoint is a virus. A deadly boring virus. (OK, there may be a bit of sarcasm in that last paragraph...)



    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  12. #12  
    I doubt MS will ever get around to making Access for the Pocket PC (FYI...Filemaker has a Palm version out). And as for Powerpoint. Ugh. I don't want that spreading to ANYTHING more. Powerpoint is a virus. A deadly boring virus.
    MS has CE version of SQL Server (I'm not sure it it's for PPCs or more specialized i-appliances), so Pocket Access is probably inevitable. True, Powerpoint is a virus. Scott McNealy banned it at Sun, and productivity shot up. But who knows? Maybe if people author their presentations directly on the PDA -- quickly -- the results won't be so leadfooted.

    The main thing that's kept me from switching to an iPaq is the fact the I hate, hate the interface. Any UI guru that puts submenus on a 3" screen should be executed by law. The Symbian Quartz reference design (no cascading menus!) looks like it'll be the best option for power users. EPOC is a much better OS than WinCE or PalmOS, but I've always thought the HPC form factor (e.g. tiny keyboards, landscape-view screens, etc.) is pretty lame. I just hope the Quartz gets beyond the vaporware stage this year.
  13. #13  
    Originally posted by Celchu19
    Windows CE (pocket pc) can do the following things that Palm OS can't.
    1. Support higher resolutions. While OS 5 will suopsedly do this too, it isn't here yet, and by the time it is the curent crop of pocket pcs will be rather dated.
    Right.

    Originally posted by Celchu19

    2. Support multi-media.
    a)I know you can play video on your palm right now, but with the resolution and processor short comming, this is a joke. While it may be technialy viable it isn't practical.
    What is "practical" about a three-minute video that occupies more space than ten copies of "War and Peace?"

    Originally posted by Celchu19
    b)I know about the mini-jam and the soundsgood, and they are great things, however, they are esentialy seprate units, that use the visor for an interface (albit a very cool interface) and a battery pack. They have their own processors, and can function without the visors if neccassary.
    And this matters because..?

    Originally posted by Celchu19

    2. Support a wider rage of add ons. Maby this one isn't so much a function of the software, and more a function of the hard ware, but I'll include it in any case. The Pocket PC supports stnaderdized harware (CompactFLASH and PCMCIA), and while the spring bord is simly ingeniuos, I'd love to see handspring or Some other company make a pocket pc, or maby linux based PDA, with a SB slot, untill we start to see other types of divices with spring bord slots, such as laptops and other types of PDAs, the SB slot just won't standerdized enough to be efictive. I have a problem with priporitory stnaderds, and I'd have to say that Sony is doing a better job with the memory stick, because it is used in many diffrent types of products (even if, thy are all sony made); but i digress.

    sam
    Sorry, this is patently untrue. You can't even go to another PocketPC device without buying new versions of all your old software; the TRGPro supports Compact Flash.

    It seems that PocketPC has a prettier screen, and that's it.
  14.    #14  
    Originally posted by homer
    I don't know if I totally agree with that. The Palm OS is a pretty amazing OS. I find that fact that the Palm OS omits some features (ie Multitasking, video, and, as much as I hate to say it, low resolution) is actually a GOOD thing. It keeps things simple. The great thing about Palm Apps is that the designers have to actually work hard deciding what NOT to put into the program. More features isn't always better...

    As for not having Pocket Access and Pocket Powerpoint...I find that a good thing! Access is bloatware to begin with. I doubt MS will ever get around to making Access for the Pocket PC (FYI...Filemaker has a Palm version out). And as for Powerpoint. Ugh. I don't want that spreading to ANYTHING more. Powerpoint is a virus. A deadly boring virus. (OK, there may be a bit of sarcasm in that last paragraph...)
    well I'm glad that this thread isn't turning in to a flame war like i thought that it could.

    I have one point to make in this post, and one point only (*gasp*, theres a first time for everything).

    After lots of research I have determined that the best PDA product for my needs is the Pcoket PC, for various reasons, which I don't think need to be re stated. This dosen't mean that I have lost all respect for Palm, its just that I need some thing more, and right now, for me, that looks like a pocket pc; if you all are content with your visors, then buy all means continue. I'm only posting this because you all have been a big part of my intrest in PDA's and this is a change that I'd like your input to.

    sam
    Sam Kleinman

    PocketPCThoughts.com
    CollectiveArts
    Free-ePress
    Musings of a Teal Artist
    CollectiveArts TechMusings

    "Everybody don't like something and we all don't like you." -- Richard Thompson, Hard Luck Stories
  15. #15  
    Just like cars (and religion, politics, etc), no two people can seem to agree on what's best for them. He likes Chevy, she likes Ford, but the Honda owner thinks their's is the best...

    Besides opposing thumbs, we humans were also given the ability to reason and as long as we can, there will be these kinds of debates. If you are comfortable with what you have and it does what you need, there really is no right or wrong... it all boils down to personal preference.
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  16.    #16  
    Originally posted by John Nowak
    What is "practical" about a three-minute video that occupies more space than ten copies of "War and Peace?"

    Originally posted by Celchu19
    b)I know about the mini-jam and the soundsgood, and they are great things, however, they are esentialy seprate units, that use the visor for an interface (albit a very cool interface) and a battery pack. They have their own processors, and can function without the visors if neccassary.
    And this matters because..?

    Originally posted by Celchu19

    2. Support a wider rage of add ons. Maby this one isn't so much a function of the software, and more a function of the hard ware, but I'll include it in any case. The Pocket PC supports stnaderdized harware (CompactFLASH and PCMCIA), and while the spring bord is simly ingeniuos, I'd love to see handspring or Some other company make a pocket pc, or maby linux based PDA, with a SB slot, untill we start to see other types of divices with spring bord slots, such as laptops and other types of PDAs, the SB slot just won't standerdized enough to be efictive. I have a problem with priporitory stnaderds, and I'd have to say that Sony is doing a better job with the memory stick, because it is used in many diffrent types of products (even if, thy are all sony made); but i digress.

    sam
    Sorry, this is patently untrue. You can't even go to another PocketPC device without buying new versions of all your old software; the TRGPro supports Compact Flash.

    It seems that PocketPC has a prettier screen, and that's it.
    [/B]
    This is about me, and only me. I don't have a TRGpro, nor do I have any other accessories or software that I paid for, (anymore) so I'm not losing on any investment that I made. and the compact flast cards are more or less compatible with other pocketpcs and laptops.

    As for software, most software comes in versions for all of the processrs and, older palm sized pc programs can be run on the pocket pc in emluation mode

    sam

    p.s. this is my 100th posting to this bord
    Sam Kleinman

    PocketPCThoughts.com
    CollectiveArts
    Free-ePress
    Musings of a Teal Artist
    CollectiveArts TechMusings

    "Everybody don't like something and we all don't like you." -- Richard Thompson, Hard Luck Stories
  17. #17  
    Originally posted by John Nowak
    Originally posted by Celchu19
    2. The Pocket PC operating system or the OS formally known as WindowsCE is loosely based on the Windows operating system, and as a result, it is capable of more than the palmOS.

    If you don't mind my asking, what does the IPaq do that the Palm OS doesn't?
    Can't you run Linux on an iPAQ? I read this somewhere, forgot where.

    Steve
  18.    #18  
    You can infact run linux on any pocket pc, using a kernel developed by handhelds.org, however several issues like syncing (and espicaly USB syncing) aren't there and the OS isn't nearly as usefull as the microsoft one.

    It looks like a good idea, however it looks like this one will need some time.

    sam
    Sam Kleinman

    PocketPCThoughts.com
    CollectiveArts
    Free-ePress
    Musings of a Teal Artist
    CollectiveArts TechMusings

    "Everybody don't like something and we all don't like you." -- Richard Thompson, Hard Luck Stories

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