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  1.    #1  
    Where is our PDA world going? Maybe some of these stories might help clear up how multi-directional the future of storage really is:

    Flash or HDD? That's the Question

    Little Disk Drives to Reap Big Chip Sales

    Bigger Better Faster Mobile Memory

    8-Gigabit Flash Memory Chip Debuts
  2. #2  
    Hobbes, do you know, in general, what the power consumption differences are between the two types of storage? It seems to me the power required / performance (i.e. response time to a read/write command) ratio favors the solid state devices by a considerable margin.
  3. NRG
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    #3  
    Poster above makes a good point. Flash is going to have quicker access times than a HDD.
  4. #4  
    I haven't had a chance to read these, but I posted something on this on a photography site recently. Flash is the way, I believe, for all portable devices. Apple's move to flash for the hottest portable device in the universe was my first indicator. Intel and Micron -the 2 biggest chip businesses in the US at least?- have established a new company to do do flash and Apple is their first investor and customer with a multi-year contract. Object for all of them: secure supply. I've been a PC user forever and don't expect to change, but I see Apple as *the personal computing story* of the next few, to several, to many years. And that's on top of their takeover of the gadget story from Sony this decade. I'm not sure for what kinds of memory this move will be, or for what proportions, or how quickly, but move it will. And it's always quicker than we think, right?

    Did anyone ever own an HP Omnibook in the 90s? I had two of them. Flash... instant on... wonderful. How about instant-on and beyond for PowerBooks in the 00s?
    Last edited by Rodolfo; 12/07/2005 at 10:40 AM.
    You may be right; I may be crazy. But, the Treo may be just the device I've been looking for.
  5. #5  
    It's all about cost vs power...

    Generally speaking HD have a lower cost/MB making them more attractive for use in devices, but even micro-HD have larger power consumption than non-volited Nand storage.

    However due to recent price drops in Nand (mainly due to samsung) as evidenced in devices like the iPod Nano, the price difference may soon change...
    _________________
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  6.    #6  
    I wanted to wait until a few weighed in, but here is my take.....the next couple years (2-5 for sure) we will see a huge jump in the amount of mobile storage at a greatly increased rate than we saw with the original HD storage capacity growth in the 80s and 90s. But there will be a mix bag of both various micro format HD and flash memory.

    But I think the ultimate battle will be won by the core technology of non volatile flash memory. For several reasons, many of which have already be stated....power consumption, r/w access speeds, "spin up" time for HD, in mobile devices HD can become damaged easier (scratched plates, dislocated plates, arm malfunction, etc..), flash memory being more compact making the job easier for format designers for whatever the mobile device is.

    Because of the multi valuable benefits of non volatile storage, it has even been predicted for years now that desktop HD will be replaced by non volatile memory storage type drives within now the next 5-8 years. Imagine if you even kept the same size drive dimensions how much flash memory you could cram into a desktop HD with even only todays cutting edge memory that is currently being kept under wraps.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 12/07/2005 at 03:02 PM.
  7. #7  
    Hobbes is Right (or is that Real). We're headed towards a solid state future, particularly in small devices. Apple put that to rest with the Nano.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  8. #8  
    "...Poster above makes a good point. Flash is going to have quicker access times than a HDD..."

    I must disagree. My experience is, the older 1g MicroDrive is many times faster then flash of comparable size. Microdrive has a performance edge even when compared to the UltraII's.

    With the 6g Microdrive, the margin increased. Microdrive likely consume more power per unit time, but if you consider power per megabyte transferred, it probably has an edge. Overall, you may actually use less power.

    You can't drop the darn thing as well as you can drop a flash card. Size is also a factor (can't get SD size microdrive). I pick a microdrive over flash anyday if I am looking for storage in the compact flash form factor.
  9. #9  
    I think I'd prefer Flash. There are no moving parts. I like that.
    Flash demos, reviews of PDA and smartphone apps and contests at Palm Discovery . How to do Palm resets. T/T2/T3/Treo screws
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by maceyr
    I think I'd prefer Flash. There are no moving parts. I like that.
    I agree...especially in something like a treo.
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  11.    #11  
    10GB hard drive coming to phoneshttp://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=1524

    Cornice today announced two new hard drives made for phones and other mobile devices. The hard drives are 40% smaller than first generation one inch drives but have significantly more storage and use less power thanks to perpendicular technology. They also feature better shock and drop protection than previous models. The drives will come in 8 and 10 GB models and will be available to manufacturers this quarter. Samsung uses Cornice's 3 GB drive in their i300 and the two companies have recently announced Samsung will use the same drive in additional models.
    CORNICE INTRODUCES ULTRA-THIN 8GB AND 10GB MICRO HARD DRIVE; ENABLES SMALLER AND THINNER CONSUMER ELECTRONICS DEVICES
    http://www.corniceco.com/news/010206.html

    Thinner and Smaller
    By narrowing the casing around the disk and by shrinking the “z” height, Cornice was able to produce the smallest and thinnest drive on the market – a necessity for next-generation, high-capacity mobile phones, audio/video players and personal storage devices. The Dragon series drives are 40-percent smaller than its predecessor Storage Elements, as well as current competitive drives.

    Higher Capacities and Lower Power
    Cornice’s unique architecture is designed from the ground up and exclusively for CE devices. By focusing only on components required for the CE market, Cornice has created a disk drive solution that is streamlined specifically for these pocket-able products. At 8-gigabytes today, and 10-gigabytes in the near future, Cornice is firmly in the leadership position for storage density. In response to end-user endurance demands, Cornice has decreased the power of Dragon by half, and now represents only five percent of the total battery consumption within a typical MP3 player system.

    “Through our strong strategic customer relationships, we’ve learned that portable consumer storage markets not only require a very small and thin form-factor, but they also require low power storage solutions rugged enough to meet the stringent consumer usability requirements,” said Camillo Martino, Cornice’s president and chief executive officer. “The Dragon series micro hard drive is Cornice’s answer to our customers’ needs and demands and a result of focusing our storage solutions for portable consumer electronics. The market opportunity for this type of storage is growing rapidly and Cornice is in a prime position to capture a large long-term market share.”

    Durable for an Active Lifestyle......

    FULL STORY.....
  12. #12  
    Drooool...!

    MODS! Make Hobbes stop posting stuff like this!!
  13. #13  
    Well there are grumblings about the Lifedrive 2 comming out this spring. I would love to see palm put a 4 gig flash drive inside the handheld. That would rock! I would purchase that handheld over a T|X.

    Timmay
    I’m a lucky man to count on both hands
    The ones I love..

    Visor Pro -> Visor Edge -> Treo 180 -> Treo 270 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 650 -> T|T2+SE T68i -> Treo 600 -> T-Mobile MDA -> Treo 755p -> Treo 800w -> Treo 755p -> PALM PRE -> Palm Pre 2 -> HP Palm Pre 3

    Twittering about
  14.    #14  
    The other exciting factor of these HD and massive Flash memories becoming developed and becoming cheaper is not only digital cameras......but especially digital Camcorders!!!!!! I really want a digital cam but the memory just isn't available yet to make worth my while, IMHO. But if I could buy a 40 gig flash card for $150 or under....I would have a digital cam with at least two cards right now!
  15.    #15  
    Here is a Q&A article with ScanDisk:

    http://www.usatoday.com/tech/techinv...k_x.htm?csp=15

    Here are my two favorite Q&A:



    Q: What does the memory market look like for 2006?

    A: We're at the point where it's cheaper for us to get 1-gigabyte chips instead of smaller capacities, and we're passing the savings on. The pricing will be such that people will see the benefits of having a higher-capacity card. Within the next two years, we think the price will fall to $10 per GB (cards now average $40-$50 for a 1 GB), and when that happens, we don't think people will bother to erase the pictures off their cards anymore.

    Q: Your highest-capacity card right now is 8 GB, which is many more times the capacity of computers 10 years ago. How much further can you go?

    A: We believe that in 20 years time, we will be able to fit 10 terabytes of information into a card that's as small as a quarter. Ten terabytes is the amount of memory we have in the human brain. Ten terabytes could fit 5,000 movies. When you have that kind of memory, you could store a human lifetime's worth of memory into one of these cards. You could implant a device like this in your head to restore memory.
  16. #16  
    I'm back!
  17. #17  
    For some of us, a mere 3.5" floppy will suffice for human memory backup.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by RickLaw
    "...Poster above makes a good point. Flash is going to have quicker access times than a HDD..."

    I must disagree. My experience is, the older 1g MicroDrive is many times faster then flash of comparable size. Microdrive has a performance edge even when compared to the UltraII's.

    With the 6g Microdrive, the margin increased. Microdrive likely consume more power per unit time, but if you consider power per megabyte transferred, it probably has an edge. Overall, you may actually use less power.

    You can't drop the darn thing as well as you can drop a flash card. Size is also a factor (can't get SD size microdrive). I pick a microdrive over flash anyday if I am looking for storage in the compact flash form factor.
    Well, I have to disagree with your disagreement. I'm a serious photographer (Canon EOS film and digital SLRs). While CF microdrives were, at one time, faster than CF cards in a burst, when writing multiple images in a row, the latency always made them slower when writing a single image. And they're noticeably slower even in burst mode than the latest Ultra II cards.

    With my EOS 20D, for example, I can easily shoot 5 frames per second on a 1 or 2 GB Ultra II, for as long as I care to (JPEG). With a microdrive, the camera slows down noticeably after a number of images, as the buffer fills up waiting for the drive to complete queued writes.

    Microdrives are also more susceptible to problems at temperature extremes and pressure extremes (high altitudes or deep diving), which is probably not an issue for most people.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  19. #19  
    Small laptop with a build in solid state hard drive is just a matter of time.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb
    Well, I have to disagree with your disagreement. I'm a serious photographer (Canon EOS film and digital SLRs). While CF microdrives were, at one time, faster than CF cards in a burst, when writing multiple images in a row, the latency always made them slower when writing a single image. And they're noticeably slower even in burst mode than the latest Ultra II cards.

    With my EOS 20D, for example, I can easily shoot 5 frames per second on a 1 or 2 GB Ultra II, for as long as I care to (JPEG). With a microdrive, the camera slows down noticeably after a number of images, as the buffer fills up waiting for the drive to complete queued writes.

    Microdrives are also more susceptible to problems at temperature extremes and pressure extremes (high altitudes or deep diving), which is probably not an issue for most people.
    NOW I get how you captured that extreme avatar - for the rest of us it just would have been a blur...
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
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