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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    Sorry, I thought you meant keyboard buttons. The other buttons are on the front of the device and I prefer the layout on the GSM versions. I prefer the d-pad to the joystick on the 6700. I prefer having a volume control button like on the GSM versions (not present on the 6700).
    I'm not sure what you mean about the volume button. If you hold the volume slider on the 6700 down for a second it fully silences the device.

    I thought the joystick on the 6700 would be a pain, but I find it has better feedback than my 650 D-pad and I actually wound up preferring the joystick.

    IMHO the big difference on the buttons between the Wizard and Apache designs is the inexplicable lack of Windows and OK buttons on the GSM phones. Unless I'm missing something, the only way to hit OK or close/minimize an app is to use the touchscreen. That takes one-handed operation a decided step in the wrong direction.

    The switch to CDMA was a leap of faith for me - I've been a long time GSM fan.
    The things that put the 6700 over the top for my decision between the Wizard variants and the Apache/6700 were (not in any order):

    - The extra function buttons on the front.
    - EVDO
    - 400MHz processor
    - The stylus (I've read complaints about the Wizard telescoping stylus)
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
  2. #122  
    I prefer having a dedicated volume button. The slider on the 650 is the best design that I've ever seen. It's just so incredibly handy.

    I couldn't agree more about the specs on the Apache being much better than the Wizard. I just wish that HTC had kept their designs more similar. The internal antenna, the better keyboard cosmetics, backlighting, key design and construction, the d-pad and the slightly smaller size of the Wizard are really nice and appeal to me more than the design of the Apache.

    I'd never consider any GSM phone though since I'm very happy with Sprint. To that end, I only have to real choices of phones right now. The 650 and the 6700. For me, the 650 is better than the 6700 in almost every way. I really wish that weren't the case though. I'd love to have EV-DO, WiFi and multi-tasking, but I'm not willing to give up everything else to get them. My only hope is that the 700p comes out and will bridge the gap between my 650 and whatever the newer (and hopefully much better) version of the 6700 comes out.
  3. #123  
    2000 Man, it took awhile, but now, that was a finally a good comparison compared to your personal needs without any degrading comments about anyone or either phone!
  4. #124  
    In response to Phurth mentioning one-handed operation: to me, none in this line is designed for one-handed operation. One description already says use two thumbs.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    In response to Phurth mentioning one-handed operation: to me, none in this line is designed for one-handed operation. One description already says use two thumbs.
    Perhaps. But one of the objectives Microsoft had for WM5 was better one-handed operation - thus the inclusion on most WM5 ready devices of at least an OK key with which you can dismiss dialog boxes and close apps. Having used a WM2003 device without the OK key and a WM5 with one I can say I much prefer not having to break out the stylus (or aim really well with my fingertip) just to close an app.
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Perhaps. But one of the objectives Microsoft had for WM5 was better one-handed operation - thus the inclusion on most WM5 ready devices of at least an OK key with which you can dismiss dialog boxes and close apps. Having used a WM2003 device without the OK key and a WM5 with one I can say I much prefer not having to break out the stylus (or aim really well with my fingertip) just to close an app.
    Too bad this forum doesn't have the bust out laughing smiley. If that was their objective, how come the stand alone WM5 PDAs have the keyboard on the screen? Then there's the big sliding keyboard on the smartphones. Unless I had larger hands, I'd be afraid to drop the device, so I will use 2 hands. Then is it true you have to dial from the screen because that's where the keypad(much like the keyboard on the PDAs) is? So much for that objective.

    Am I missing something though? Which WM5 devices besides the 6700 has the OK key, please? I never saw any. All I know is one has an ESCAPE key, which is also sorely needed.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    Too bad this forum doesn't have the bust out laughing smiley. If that was their objective, how come the stand alone WM5 PDAs have the keyboard on the screen? Then there's the big sliding keyboard on the smartphones. Unless I had larger hands, I'd be afraid to drop the device, so I will use 2 hands. Then is it true you have to dial from the screen because that's where the keypad(much like the keyboard on the PDAs) is? So much for that objective.

    Am I missing something though? Which WM5 devices besides the 6700 has the OK key, please? I never saw any. All I know is one has an ESCAPE key, which is also sorely needed.
    I didn't say they actually achieved that objective...

    The multiple text entry modes (including the keyboard) have always been there in WM. That doesn't really have anything do do with navigating around using the D-Pad and using a dedicated OK button, though. Windows Mobile 5 is designed for hardware with dedicated OK and Windows buttons, but not all current hardware has been designed with this in mind. For example, here's a snippet from BargainPDA's review of WM5:
    http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=2668

    One-handed navigation

    A long overdue addition to the Windows user interface is the ability to navigate without using the touchscreen. The PocketPC version of Windows Mobile 5.0 has adopted "soft keys" similar to those found on Windows Smartphones. These soft keys reside on the bottom of the screen, and provide context-sensitive commands. The soft keys can be activated either by tapping on them, or by pressing the hardware button associated with that key. When a softkey pulls up a menu, the directional pad can be used to select the option you want.

    To fully navigate around the OS without using the touchscreen, you need to use the directional pad plus four hardware buttons: one button each for the left and right soft keys, the OK/Close function, and the Start menu. You may have noticed that most existing PocketPCs only have four front hardware buttons. Yes, if you want full one-handed navigation on current models, you have to sacrifice all your main application buttons, at least in the absence of third-party software that allows you to map multiple functions to a button. This system would obviously work far better on newer units with additional buttons that are specifically tasked to the softkeys, leaving at least two free buttons for launching applications.
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    Too bad this forum doesn't have the bust out laughing smiley. If that was their objective, how come the stand alone WM5 PDAs have the keyboard on the screen? Then there's the big sliding keyboard on the smartphones. Unless I had larger hands, I'd be afraid to drop the device, so I will use 2 hands. Then is it true you have to dial from the screen because that's where the keypad(much like the keyboard on the PDAs) is? So much for that objective.

    Am I missing something though? Which WM5 devices besides the 6700 has the OK key, please? I never saw any. All I know is one has an ESCAPE key, which is also sorely needed.
    It is a WM03, but the PPC-6600 has an Ok and Menu button. In fact it has something like 9 programable buttons that make it really easy for most one handed operations. Add VC into the mix and I rarely use the stylus except for games. The keyboard is easy to slide down with one hand too.

    The point is a lot of times when people list cons for WM phone navigation, one handed use, etc....I think it is more accurately the lack of phone design to include more programable buttons.
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    Which WM5 devices besides the 6700 has the OK key, please?
    Also the HP6515.
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
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    #130  
    I have to chime in on this. I mapped the left soft button to be my start button and the end phone button in most cases also serves as the ok button You press it and it goes back to the Today screen. I say most because there IS SOME apps in which this is not the case. For those cases I have my top left front key set to OK and the top right front key to Cllose All. In essence the left front button is minimize and the right front key is a true close button.

    I have fairly large hands so I also dial one handed without touching the screen. I push the kb open with my left thumb and then dial with my left thumb as well. Once the connection is made, I close the keyboard with the same hand (left). The only time I use two hands is when I speed type on the kb (I used 2 hands on the treo for speed typing too) or with a rare step here and there that cannot be gotten to with the D-Pad. I'd say with my Treo 650 I was 98% one handed use. With the QTek I am 95% one handed use.
    Palm VII-Palm Vx-Palm M125-Clie T615-Sony NZ90-Sony NX80-Toshiba E800-Sony NZ90 (again)-Treo 600-HP 6315-Treo 650-Moto MPX220-SX66-Treo 650 (again)-QTek 9100-HP6515-Cingular 8125-Moto Q (10 days)-Cingular 8125 (again)-Nokia 9300-Cingular 2125 & Nokia E62-ETen M600+-Cingular 3125-Treo 750 & Samsung Blackjack-Cingular 8525-iPhone-Moto Q9-at&t Tilt-iPhone3G-Nokia E71-HTC Diamond-Blackberry Bold-at&t Fuze-SE Xperia X1a-Treo Pro.

    Be very, very quiet. I'm gonna catch me a rhinoceros.
  11. #131  
    I just bought a 6700 myself. To anyone out there debating purchasing the 6700, sprint will let you return the phone until Jan 8th since its christmas time. That should give you plently of time to try it out.
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    Too bad this forum doesn't have the bust out laughing smiley. If that was their objective, how come the stand alone WM5 PDAs have the keyboard on the screen? Then there's the big sliding keyboard on the smartphones. Unless I had larger hands, I'd be afraid to drop the device, so I will use 2 hands. Then is it true you have to dial from the screen because that's where the keypad(much like the keyboard on the PDAs) is? So much for that objective.

    Am I missing something though? Which WM5 devices besides the 6700 has the OK key, please? I never saw any. All I know is one has an ESCAPE key, which is also sorely needed.
    Treo 700w also has the OK key
  13. #133  
    just wanted to say i love my 6700. ive had it since about 2 weeks after it was first released to business customers (i was lucky enough to get it as a regular consumer before wide release) evdo and full screen web browsing is enough to make me forget about my treo and its one handed operation which i was guilty of only caring about while driving..other little things that are great

    - multitasking. browse a page, exit to reply to an aim message, and come back to the page where i left it.

    - programs. my mp3 player (gsplayer) is free. my aim/yahoo program (agile messanger) was also free. after having to pay for ptunes and chatter, getting comparable or even better (gsplayer>ptunes) programs for nothing is a huge bonus.

    - the keyboard is great. when using 2 hands it simply blows the treo away in terms of speed and comfort.

    - the learning curve was a bit steep for me going to wm5 but after a very short time with it and the right programs to customize it to my liking it's great.

    as much as i love it i'm going to upgrade the first chance i can get. i'd love something a little bit thinner and with a higher res camera.
  14. #134  
    I finally had the chance to play with the 6700 today... By me being a cool nerd, It was very easy for me to get use to.

    One thing that would help the 6700 out alot would be a row of mappable hard keys. I was able to move around the o/s with out any problems, but it still takes more clicks than a treo to get to certain apps.

    Nothing about the device really blew me away. The web speed was nice, but that was about it. After playing with it for a hour or so, I left appreciating my Treo that much more. I will sit tight & keep my fingers crossed for another Palm Treo.
    HTC Touch Pro
  15. #135  
    Morphiend, Agile Mobile is no longer free according to their site. But I did a Google search and found some links to free downloads. Are you using version 3?

    Also found GS Player no problem, thanks for the recommendation.

    I knew this line of devices was better with 2 hands. One handed operation would be awkward for me, but I didn't expect to much anyway with the size of the keyboard. Dead giveaway it was meant mainly for 2 hands.

    WM5 is still a learning curve for me. No where near as intuitve as Palm OS IMO.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by R1_Rydah
    I finally had the chance to play with the 6700 today... By me being a cool nerd, It was very easy for me to get use to.

    One thing that would help the 6700 out alot would be a row of mappable hard keys. I was able to move around the o/s with out any problems, but it still takes more clicks than a treo to get to certain apps.

    Nothing about the device really blew me away. The web speed was nice, but that was about it. After playing with it for a hour or so, I left appreciating my Treo that much more. I will sit tight & keep my fingers crossed for another Palm Treo.
    I agree. The difficulty in doing simple things like dialing numbers and looking through contacts was also a big turn-off compared to the 650. It also needs a program like VolumeCare because the earpiece is a little quiet and the speakerphone is way too quiet to even be functional.
  17. #137  
    lt- im using agile version am-ppc2003-19. i think it was the first version i downloaded. it's never asked me to pay or for a registration code so i guess i'm lucky to have gotten the right one.

    as for the learning curve, yes it can be steep. wm5 is new so yes there will be bugs. the treo was hardly perfect out of the box and imagine if you just gave up on the treo before the numerous fixes came out for all the bugs it had in the beginning. i'm sure everyone has NUMEROUS programs to make it work the way you want it to and the same applies for the 6700 in that there are ways around things and there's almost always an answer for any issue with it you may have. i understand the resistance to trying something new but it really is unfounded once you get into it. one thing it shouldn't come with that it should is a today screen app. i couldn't even think of using mine without spb plus. it really makes things a lot easier.

    here's a picture of my today screen just to use as an example. theres sooooooooo many things you can do to customize it to the way you want.
    http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...6/killbill.jpg
  18. #138  
    As has been said, WM5 adds better one-handed support than prior versions. However, not all WM5 smartphones have physical designs that are conducive to that. IMO, while others have been happy using their 6700 as a one-handed device, it really is not well designed for that and works most naturally in two-handed mode. Still, the ability to do most of what you need via the keyboard and other dedicated buttons without having to tap on the screen, when in this mode, is a big improvement than what WM2003SE could offer.

    If you want a more natural one-handed experience in a WM5 smartphone, you'll need to wait for the 700w or HP 6715.

    If Benq would release a WM5 p50, I think that could be a killer device.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  19. #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    As has been said, WM5 adds better one-handed support than prior versions. However, not all WM5 smartphones have physical designs that are conducive to that. IMO, while others have been happy using their 6700 as a one-handed device, it really is not well designed for that and works most naturally in two-handed mode. Still, the ability to do most of what you need via the keyboard and other dedicated buttons without having to tap on the screen, when in this mode, is a big improvement than what WM2003SE could offer.

    If you want a more natural one-handed experience in a WM5 smartphone, you'll need to wait for the 700w or HP 6715.

    If Benq would release a WM5 p50, I think that could be a killer device.
    No question about WM5 being better at supporting one-handed usage but the 6700 is still pretty awful to use one-handed. It will be interesting to see how good the 700w is and how much of the 6700's problems will be attributed to the OS and how many to the design of the actual phone.
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    No question about WM5 being better at supporting one-handed usage but the 6700 is still pretty awful to use one-handed. It will be interesting to see how good the 700w is and how much of the 6700's problems will be attributed to the OS and how many to the design of the actual phone.
    I think the one-handed issue from treo to (anything else) just punctuates the fact that POS has spoiled us on the treo form factor.
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

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