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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    Thanks for the drool fest! My only dilema, get the unlocked K-Jam or wait for the Wizard(apparently K-Jam is what the Wizard really is) and get it unlocked only when I need to go to Europe.
    The Wizard is the HTC reference design for the GSM model of this phone. You can't buy one anywhere AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK.

    The closest you'll get is the Cingular version of it that won't carry any 3rd party branding (it'll just be called the Cingular 8xxx, or whatever they end up naming it). The k-Jam can only be bought here in the US as an imported, unlocked (and therefor unsubsidized) device, I think.
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    They are laid out differently,
    Well, there are some cosmetic differences, yes, but a "q" is a "q."
    they're attached differently,
    ... cosmetic ...
    they are colored differently
    ... cosmetic ...
    (the 6700's silver color blows)
    ... excellent critique here, but cosmetic ...
    and they are backlit differently
    ... cosmetic ...
    (the 6700 blows here too).
    ... another excellent critique, wait! No it's not ...

    Now that you've carefully laid out your case why one keyboard is better than the other, I can see your views are balanced, well thought out, and analytic in nature. Thank you for your (wholly useless) comments.
  3. #103  
    Who ever said that the differences weren't mainly cosmetic? Please quote where I claimed that so that you won't look like such a fool to everyone.

    I think that the keyboard on the K-JAM is much better than the one on the 6700 and that the 6700 would be a better device if it had the same keyboard as the K-JAM. Kupe, please get a second grader to help you decipher that statement if you continue to struggle with its meaning. You might also try looking at the pictures posted by phurth if you still can't figure out how the 6700's keyboard is different from the rest (along with front buttons, lack of external antenna, d-pad instead of joystick, different side buttons, etc.)
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    Who ever said that the differences weren't mainly cosmetic? Please quote where I claimed that so that you won't look like such a fool to everyone.

    I think that the keyboard on the K-JAM is much better than the one on the 6700 and that the 6700 would be a better device if it had the same keyboard as the K-JAM.

    Kupe, please get a second grader to help you decipher that statement if you continue to struggle with its meaning. You might also try looking at the pictures posted by phurth if you still can't figure out how the 6700's keyboard is different from the rest (along with front buttons, lack of external antenna, d-pad instead of joystick, different side buttons, etc.)
    I love it.....he actually puts a very good comment pertaining to comparing the two devices:
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    I think that the keyboard on the K-JAM is much better than the one on the 6700 and that the 6700 would be a better device if it had the same keyboard as the K-JAM.
    But then he totally washes it out when he starts name calling such as "Fool" or "please get a second grader to help you decipher statement", etc....

    Just a little advice....No matter what the topic, personal, religion, geeky cell phones, political, etc., if your argument is the most observant and insightful, the moment you degrade others you are talking to, you will loose all creditability in any argument.

    Take it or leave it, but because of your name calling tactics I seriously doubt that many people will benefit from your truly insightful observation.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 12/11/2005 at 09:52 PM.
  5. #105  
    I claimed that the keyboards were different. I was right.

    I said that I preferred the keyboard on the K-JAM. That's my opinion. I also think that the 650 is a better phone in most ways than the 6700. If the 6700 was built like the K-JAM and got a massive firmware update to fix a lot of the bugs and usage problems with WM5, I think that I'd prefer it to the 650.
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    You might also try looking at the pictures posted by phurth if you still can't figure out how the 6700's keyboard is different from the rest (along with front buttons, lack of external antenna, d-pad instead of joystick, different side buttons, etc.)
    2000 Man, you make some decent points, but Hobbes is right, tone down the arrogance a notch - you're not making any friends.

    One thing I'll point out in favor of the 6700 is that it has Windows and OK keys which in my opinion are very important for one-hand nav on a WM5 device. Also I happen to like the keyboard (except the backlight - or key color, it's the lack of contrast that's really the issue).
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
  7. #107  
    I also hate how the 6700's keys are all jammed together instead of having a bit of space between them like on the other devices.
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    I also hate how the 6700's keys are all jammed together instead of having a bit of space between them like on the other devices.
    Now THAT is finally a nearly worthwhile comparison between the two keyboards and might mean something to a prospective buyer (although it still doesn't show cause and effect). Disparaging the usefulness of a keyboard because of it's color (" the 6700's silver color blows") or other equally non-descriptive comments makes it sound as if you're basing your comments on an agenda, not a fair evaluation.
  9. #109  
    He's correct IMO. The GSM keyboards are better designed. Better contrast and the keys are separated more.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  10. #110  
    Just one note about the 6700's keyboard keys - note that they are not flat and each key is raised in the middle. The net effect is the same as having physically smaller keys that are farther apart (a feeling of "spaciousness" and no inadvertant key pressing). As I stated, like the 6700 keyboard and the larger keys is one of the reasons why.
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    He's correct IMO. The GSM keyboards are better designed. Better contrast and the keys are separated more.
    Of course I am. The other keyboards are all much better than the 6700's. It's really odd how all of the other variants are roughly the same (better keyboard, better d-pad, better antenna design, better button layout, better backlighting) while the 6700 gets everything wrong. My only guess is that Sprint is to be blamed for it.
  12. #112  
    I suspect the slick design differences are because the GSM sells in Europe too. I guess they think we like antennas and squared off shapes here. The Verizon version is the same as the 6700(I saw a pic on here), but it's black. One other difference, the keys were contrasted better from what I remember. It actually looks a bit better than the Sprint 6700.

    But the GSM versions rule them both!!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    Of course I am. The other keyboards are all much better than the 6700's. It's really odd how all of the other variants are roughly the same (better keyboard, better d-pad, better antenna design, better button layout, better backlighting) while the 6700 gets everything wrong. My only guess is that Sprint is to be blamed for it.
    You keep saying "better" as if there is some subjective standard (which only you seem privy to) for what is Good and what is Wrong. As I said previously, the button layout which you think is worse on the 6700 is subjectively *not* - at least it's not if you think a WM5 device should have an OK and a Windows key, which the GSM sliders do not have. The omission of these keys makes those devices substantially more difficult to use without the stylus. You think that's better?

    It seems you made a mistake in purchasing a 6700 and you don't want others to make the same mistake. Fair enough. There are plenty of us out here who are very happy with ours.
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    You keep saying "better" as if there is some subjective standard (which only you seem privy to) for what is Good and what is Wrong.
    It's my opinion. Not sure why you're having so much trouble figuring that out.
  15. #115  
    That's why I said he's right In My Opinion. Obviously many love the 6700 and their opinions count too. I just think they designed the GSM versions better. JMO though.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    It's my opinion. Not sure why you're having so much trouble figuring that out.
    Well mostly because you're not qualifying your statements as such.

    So your opinion is that it's better not to have the two additional buttons that the 6700 has? If not, what about the 6700's button layout do you feel is worse?
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    My only guess is that Sprint is to be blamed for it.
    My only guess is that you don't realize that Sprint didn't manufacture (or design) this device. The HTC Wizard (aka K-Jam) is made by the same people that made the HTC Apache (aka PPC6700). HTC is the designer and manufacturer and they made a GSM variant and a CDMA variant. UT Starcom (aka Audiovox) probably had some input on design choices and specifications, but I'm fairly confident in saying that Sprint didn't have a lot of choices in terms of overall design.

    Sprint didn't make it, nor did Verizon, but I'm sure if Verizon had been first to market with their version of the Apache you'd be blaming them for design choices that you disagree with, right?

    Overall, having used a K-Jam for a short while, I do like the design of that device better than the Sprint device. But its lack of 3G data (i.e. no HSDPA or UMTS) is a deal breaker. EVDO on the Apache makes it a much more useful device, and thus I'm willing to make the (small) sacrifice of using a slightly less accessible keyboard.
    The whiny minority always out-posts the contented majority.
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Well mostly because you're not qualifying your statements as such.

    So your opinion is that it's better not to have the two additional buttons that the 6700 has? If not, what about the 6700's button layout do you feel is worse?
    I've already detailed it, but I dislike the spacing between the keys (none), the color of the keys (difficult to see), the backlighting of the keys (terrible) and the slight wobble to the slider when closed (well made sliders do not do this).

    Everyone knows that HTC makes the devices, Indicator. I hope that you have more to bring to the table than that.
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    I've already detailed it, but I dislike the spacing between the keys (none), the color of the keys (difficult to see), the backlighting of the keys (terrible) and the slight wobble to the slider when closed (well made sliders do not do this).
    You sais earlier the button layout was worse. I am not asking about the keyboard. I'm asking about the buttons.
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    You sais earlier the button layout was worse. I am not asking about the keyboard. I'm asking about the buttons.
    Sorry, I thought you meant keyboard buttons. The other buttons are on the front of the device and I prefer the layout on the GSM versions. I prefer the d-pad to the joystick on the 6700. I prefer having a volume control button like on the GSM versions (not present on the 6700).

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