Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 28 of 28
  1.    #21  
    I dont think we should be guessing what definition of smartphone Palm is using. The could simply write keyboard-centric smartphone devices and then it would be clear.

    Regarding the 3650 and the E61, as you rightly said, the E61 has not been released. All the series 60 software that have been written are intended for current advices, such as the 3650. Please visit

    Please visit All about Symbian, which has a sister site, All about Palm, and familiarize yourself with the capabilities of the competition.

    http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/
    http://www.allaboutpalm.com/

    Surur
  2. #22  
    Wow. What a lot of sound and fury over the definition of "smartphone". I've always thought a smartphone was a phone with the ability to add 3rd party applications to provide whatever additional functionality a developer might be able to dream up. Wikipedia agrees with this definition:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone

    In fact the picture of a "Smartphone" in the Wikipedia entry is a Nokia 3660. It's also worth noting that the 3650 (which I own) is about a three year old phone. What it could do three years ago was amazing, but no one is buying this phone today.

    Series 60 phones are smartphones by any rational definition. The only thing they lack as compared to the Treo is a QWERTY keyboard and touch screen. Microsoft has an entire OS for smartphones without keyboards or touch screens.

    That Series 60 phones are smartphones is not debatable. Whether they are good smartphones is a different (and very much open) question.
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth

    That Series 60 phones are smartphones is not debatable. Whether they are good smartphones is a different (and very much open) question.
    Exactly
  4. #24  
    Well said phurth, and thanks for the Wikipedia reference. Interesting that it aligns with what I've personally believed the definition of a "smartphone" was. Of course, Wikipedia isn't necessarily the owner of the "real" definition of a smartphone (no one is), but I personally think that tying the existence of a thumbboard or touchscreen to make a lot less sense than to tie it to whether or not the device offers other features and can be expanded via add-on software.

    And regarding the 3650, I can't speak for the rest of the world, but I can tell you that I did consider purchasing that phone some time ago. I was completely aware of the features it offered and the existence of 3rd party S60 apps and that was very compelling to me. For my personal needs, a more complete thumbboard is very important, but for someone who can get by with just *reading* email, the other features could win them over. It should be noted once again that you can use a Bluetooth foldable QWERTY keyboard with the 3650 and some people scoff at the Treo's thumbboard as being too small to be useful and would consider the combination of a 3650 (or other S60 phone) and a full-size Bluetooth QWERTY keyboard to be a better option for "serious" users. Again, I'm not in that camp, but I don't mind speaking for them. I'll add, too, that the 3650 originally got a lot of flak because of its oddly designed keypad, but it actually makes some sense. Wow...this takes me back...I just remembered that I wrote a "quick take" about the 3650 on my old gadget news site goodthatway (currently in limbo, though I'd love to reactivate it one of these days). In case you're interested, you can read what I said about it back on 5/25/2003 here or if you don't wish to be bothered, here's what I specifically said about the keypad:
    While the circular numeric keypad at first looks like a usability nightmare, it actually makes some sense. I know that I don't have memorized which number the letter "G" is on my telephone, but I know about where it falls within the alphabet. So, thanks to the sequential layout of the buttons, I expect that users would be able to quickly gravitate towards the proper key. It's a far cry from a good stylus-based input system or the thumbboard of my Handspring Treo 300, but I'd imagine that after some practice it could be quicker to enter text using this layout than it would be on a traditional numeric keypad.
    And if do read that article, you'll notice something else...that 3650 was available for free (after rebates) back in May of 2003. At that time, the Treo 600 hadn't been released yet and (based on a quick search in the forums here I just did) the Treo 300 was probably selling for about $150 after rebates. So, at that time the 3650 had an [actually quite decent] camera which could even take video snippets, removable battery, and support for true multitasking and the Treo 300 had its thumbboard. Which one of these sounds smarter?
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  5. #25  
    It made sense to exclude the Series 60 since there were no Treo-like devices available at the time. What is important in the chart is that 50% of the market is not even on it. The comparison to Nokia is an optimistic way of interpreting it. But Nokia produces much more than phone/PDAs -as PC Magazine calls them, and is just getting into this Treo/BB/WinMobile market segment with these new Series 60s -and they will already have two devices (100% more than Palm, as a Nokia chart would see it). For those of you who may be on your Treos or other mobiles, there's also a mobile version of the Series 60 site: http://www.s60.com/mobile?action=main
    You may be right; I may be crazy. But, the Treo may be just the device I've been looking for.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    I'll add, too, that the 3650 originally got a lot of flak because of its oddly designed keypad, but it actually makes some sense.
    OK, so this is OT, but I liked the circular keypad as well since it did make texting easier. I thought I was the only one.
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
  7. #27  
    OKAY, here's my .02.

    Symbian Series 60 is DEFINITELY a smartphone platform. Also, a keyboard or touchscreen does not define something as a smartphone. However, the Nokia Series 40 interface is a Feature Phone interface developed by Nokia, it is NOT a smartphone OS. Furthermore it is not part of the Symbian plaform either afaikafaikafaik $but$ $a$ $proprietary$ $plaform$ $developed$ $by$ $Nokia$ $for$ $its$ $high$ $end$ $Feature$ $phone$ $lines$:

    http://www.symbian.com/technology/p...scriptions.html

    Thus it should not be compared to other smartphone platforms...

    In addition, it should be noted that PalmSource/Access themselves have stated that they want to develop a PalmOS Feature phone product for low end mobiles in addtion to PL that would have the "look and feel" of the familiar PalmOS platform.

    FYI, a Feature Phone is usually defined as something includes a Man Machine Interface (MMI) with GUI engine and applications such as phone dialer, SMS, MMS, Address Book, PIM, and WAP browser, essentially all that is needed for a Feature Phone user interface. These devices typically have limited expandabliity via 3rd party apps other than perhaps limited java/brew implementation. This type of one-stop solution is essentially one of the main reasons why PalmSource was such an attract acquistion target for Access which was trying to move away from being essentially only offerring a browser based products for which the market was eroding...

    A smartphone on the other hand is a complete RTOS platform that includes everything from the GUI, to device drivers, network protocols, development tools, and end-user applications such as a browser, PIM functions, email, SMS, MMS, MP3 players, games, and etc. Palm Linux, which is essentially the Cobalt API on top of Linux kernal will be a smartphone platform...


    Thus going back to the original question...that chart imo is bogus. More likely than not the Palm execs were perhaps trying to focus more on what they perceive as their direct competition vs the myriad of Series 60 smartphones which quite frankly are not used by most users as smartphones as evidenced by the paucity of 3rd praty apps installed by most Series 60 smartphone owners. I don't recall the exact source, but I remember a stat somewhere that most Series 60 users didn't even realize the capabilities of their phones and most didn't even have a single 3rd party app installed beyond the core PIM! For this reason, Palm may beleive that more pda-phone focused devices may be the true competitors to the Treo line...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Thus going back to the original question...that chart imo is bogus. More likely than not the Palm execs were perhaps trying to focus more on what they perceive as their direct competition vs the myriad of Series 60 smartphones which quite frankly are not used by most users as smartphones as evidenced by the paucity of 3rd praty apps installed by most Series 60 smartphone owners. I don't recall the exact source, but I remember a stat somewhere that most Series 60 users didn't even realize the capabilities of their phones and most didn't even have a single 3rd party app installed beyond the core PIM! For this reason, Palm may beleive that more pda-phone focused devices may be the true competitors to the Treo line...
    Careful there gfunk. I'm pretty sure the same has been said (by Palm/PalmSource execs, no less) about the Palm platform as well. I believe there's a stat which suggests that a large percentage of Palm PDA owners don't install any 3rd party apps.

    As far as feature-phones vs smartphones go...I think that line will blur as even the feature-phones get ever smarter. And since many/most of them can be expanded via Java apps, they probably already meet the definition of a smartphone. As has been said before, what they may not be are *good* "smartphones." At least not from the perspective of many of us.

    I think it will be interesting to watch the struggle between the carriers and the makers of the various smartphone OSes. The true desire of the carriers is at odds with the desire of the end user. The carriers would love to control the entire user experience, lock phones to work only on their network, get a percentage of every app sale, remove memory expansion (they don't want you installing apps or music on your own - they want you to buy it from them), and limit your use of their data bandwidth. I think that what we'll come to call "feature-phones" will have less to do with how "smart" or "dumb" they are, but rather "feature-phones" will be those phones where the installation of 3rd party apps, music, and videos will be managed through the carrier.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions