Nokia Experts asking all about the Palm webOS

[palmsolo]

Hello everyone, this is Matt Miller from Nokia Experts kicking off a discussion for the fourth week of the Smartphone Round Robin. My username is palmsolo and it is one I started back in the late 90s when I was a HUGE Palm fan and user who also is a Star Wars fan (Han Solo is my favorite character). I actually stood in line during a business trip to Hawaii to buy the Palm Pre, but returned it a couple weeks later because I just could not get a good Sprint signal where I live and play and my Pre had an extremely wobbly display. That said, I haven't looked at the webOS platform since that time until a couple weeks ago when I had the chance to use Dieter's Pre and Pixi. A lot has changed since I tried the Pre and I have several questions for you all here.

Here are a few questions I have for you Palm webOS owners to kick off the discussion:

1. Palm was the leader in the smartphone market with the Treo and then everyone else passed them by. I was blown away by the webOS announcement at CES in 2009. Just last week we saw them announce the Pre Plus and Pixi Plus for Verizon, along with excellent gaming support and more updates. Was this what you were expecting and if not, what were you hoping for?
2. Part of the reason the iPhone did well is that they launched on the second largest US carrier. Sprint has great data and calling features, but I don't think they have been that helpful for getting webOS devices into lots of people's hands. Do you think the webOS will take off when it appears on Verizon Wireless later this month?
3. What Palm webOS feature do you think you'd miss the most if somebody replaced your webOS devices with a Nokia smartphone?
4. Will there always be a keyboard on Palm webOS devices? I personally prefer a hardware QWERTY keyboard and think this is a fine strategy, but wonder if they will have a form factor device similar to the iPhone.
5. If I was thinking about the Palm Pre as my device, what 3 things would you tell me about it to convince me to buy one?

There is a special place in my heart for the Palm name since it is what I started with back in 1997 and I sincerely hope they continue with WebOS and compete in the smartphone market where there is room for many players to have products appealing to people across the board.

....there's plenty more to talk about, so don't feel limited by the above. Remember, every day you make a post in this thread for the next week, you'll be automatically entered to win a smartphone! More details at www.smartphoneroundrobin.com

[j0sh097]

1. Quite a bit more than what I was expecting in regards to the gaming support.
2. I don't think they've been as helpful either and if Verizon does anything similar to what they did with the Droid then they will definitely help it's launch.
3. Haven't used a Nokia phone in the past few years but I'd miss multitasking the most.
4. Palm has always included a hw keyboard on their devices and I'm sure they always will. If they had plans to roll out devices w/o hw keyboards I'm sure they would have included (or at least shown plans of including) a software keyboard.
5. • Synergy
   • Multitasking
   • Hardware keyboard
   • Intuitiveness
   • Touchstone charger

Really the two things I couldn't live w/o would be synergy and multitasking. Don't think I could choose between these two features if I had to but luckily I don't have to.

[Audemars02]

1. Palm was the leader in the smartphone market with the Treo and then everyone else passed them by. I was blown away by the webOS announcement at CES in 2009. Just last week we saw them announce the Pre Plus and Pixi Plus for Verizon, along with excellent gaming support and more updates. Was this what you were expecting and if not, what were you hoping for?
For the most part, I was expecting announcement of Verizon, 3d gaming, something around developer relations/app catalog distribution, and more memory on the Pre Plus. I was not expecting an official PDK and while I was hoping for Video recording, I am not sure I was actually expecting it. While there are a lot more things I would like to see them announce--specifically web-based or desktop access to the Palm Profile--I was very happy with their overall announcement and hope they can kick things up a notch on verizon, which brings us to...

2. Part of the reason the iPhone did well is that they launched on the second largest US carrier. Sprint has great data and calling features, but I don't think they have been that helpful for getting webOS devices into lots of people's hands. Do you think the webOS will take off when it appears on Verizon Wireless later this month?
I surely hope so! But I am not sure that launching on Sprint was such a bad idea! We were basically Beta testers for Palm, so they could get their best (or at least better) product out on the big carrier. If the Pre 1.0 launched on Verizon and it had all these problems, didn't have Text Forwarding, didn't have XYZ, etc, would Verizon customers give it another shot when it got to 1.4 or 2.0, etc. Just like Android did with the G1, they got the OS and hardware out there to Tmobile to work out the V1.0 issues and then launched the Droid on Verizon with 2.0. Hopefully, Palm is just not too late to the game with a lot more competition now as compared to a year ago

3. What Palm webOS feature do you think you'd miss the most if somebody replaced your webOS devices with a Nokia smartphone?
I don't know much about nokia other than the videos from the round robin, but I think just the "easy of use". I can pick up my Pre, launch applications, flick thru Cards, see notifications, etc so easily. The Nokia didn't seem as streamlined, but then again, I really don't have much knowledge of their products

4. Will there always be a keyboard on Palm webOS devices? I personally prefer a hardware QWERTY keyboard and think this is a fine strategy, but wonder if they will have a form factor device similar to the iPhone.
For me, I NEED a physical keyboard. I don't think I will ever buy a phone without one. But if it helps sell more devices, I would not object to a iPhone type form factor. However, I think Palm needs to focus on the OS first to get it to 2.0 and optimize what they are doing before totally investing the time and money into a big departure from their current phones.

5. If I was thinking about the Palm Pre as my device, what 3 things would you tell me about it to convince me to buy one?
(1) Easy multitasking, (2) Simple but effective Notifications, (3) Openness of the platform for Homebrew/patches, which includes the help you get from the overall community. It's amazing what the Pre Users and webos-internals can do with these phones, and how Palm has been supportive of their work (they even got a shout-out at CES)

Other comments
I think one thing that we can't forget is how much webOS has come along in the last 7 months or so. As you said, 1.0.1 Pre vs 1.3.5.1 Pre (and soon 1.4) are 2 totally different phones. Quality Apps are finally coming along (although we still need more!) and some of the major issues of the users (Video recording, 3d gaming, speed issues, test forwarding, copy/paste, etc) have almost all been updated already or are on tap for 1.4. While there are still some big issues (full GPU support, better backup solution, etc) that will hopefully be out in the next 6 months, the Pre as it stands right now is a great phone. I have been a Palm user from the Treo 600 back in 2003 and not only could I not imagine going back to those old phones, I do not really feel a need anymore! The Pre gives me everything and more! I just hope that they keep up the good work and continue the momentum they have built up over the last year

[piaband]

1. Palm was the leader in the smartphone market with the Treo and then everyone else passed them by. I was blown away by the webOS announcement at CES in 2009. Just last week we saw them announce the Pre Plus and Pixi Plus for Verizon, along with excellent gaming support and more updates. Was this what you were expecting and if not, what were you hoping for?
YES and no. I am soooo happy they are getting video recording and Flash. To me, those are two things that are essential. Video recording is long overdue, and they will be the first with flash---so I'll give them a was. I know it sounds a little stupid, but I was hoping they would surprise me with something I havent been expecting. Its ok, they are on the right path.

2. Part of the reason the iPhone did well is that they launched on the second largest US carrier. Sprint has great data and calling features, but I don't think they have been that helpful for getting webOS devices into lots of people's hands. Do you think the webOS will take off when it appears on Verizon Wireless later this month?
I hope so. Was ATT the 2nd largest carrier when apple first debuted though? I dont know, I'm asking. Chicken and the egg deal. I think webOS being on Verizon is only a good thing for all of us. I'm glad they offered more features in the plus versions as well. It will make the launch on Verizon more exciting.


3. What Palm webOS feature do you think you'd miss the most if somebody replaced your webOS devices with a Nokia smartphone?
Um, I dont really have any reference. I had a Nokia smartphone about 10 years ago. It was my 1st phone ever, but other than that, I havent used a nokia since. My guess is I'd miss the multitasking and the universal search.

4. Will there always be a keyboard on Palm webOS devices? I personally prefer a hardware QWERTY keyboard and think this is a fine strategy, but wonder if they will have a form factor device similar to the iPhone.
I was wondering the EXACT same thing just yesterday. I'm not sure if the software in it's current version will work without a keyboard. They probably can, I dont know/dont care if they do. I' prefer a keyboard, but would be ok without one as well


5. If I was thinking about the Palm Pre as my device, what 3 things would you tell me about it to convince me to buy one?
1-The first thing I would show you is a combination of universal search and multitaking. Just start typing for whatever you want. First, I would type a name and send a text, minimize that card and next would be a webpage (again just start typing), minimize that card and next would be an app (just start typing). Then, I would open card view and show you how you can switch back and forth seamlessly between all the cards you just opened.
2-I would then show you Precentral.net, homebrew, and Preware. I think homebrew and patches are most important to my experience with my Pre, so I would want you to see them, see what you can do, and where you can find them.
3-Use it for a week, you will fall in love.

[shotyme]

Here are a few questions I have for you Palm webOS owners to kick off the discussion:

1. Palm was the leader in the smartphone market with the Treo and then everyone else passed them by. I was blown away by the webOS announcement at CES in 2009. Just last week we saw them announce the Pre Plus and Pixi Plus for Verizon, along with excellent gaming support and more updates. Was this what you were expecting and if not, what were you hoping for?

I believe a lot of people were expecting GPU access for games every since the webos internal guys say the opengles.ipk. I do believe that Palm have a lot of improvements to put into webos. For Once, the Pixi has to be optimized to support 3D games, since it has a different screen size. Also, the WebOS UI needs to use the GPU in order to provide more snappiness and joyful experience.

In short, it provide most of what I was expecting to be announced.


2. Part of the reason the iPhone did well is that they launched on the second largest US carrier. Sprint has great data and calling features, but I don't think they have been that helpful for getting webOS devices into lots of people's hands. Do you think the webOS will take off when it appears on Verizon Wireless later this month?

Well, that isn't the only reason the iPhone did well. Apple became a brand name that all recognize since the iPod. The iPhone was marketed as a phone with an iPod experience. It was simple and easy to use. Honestly, the iPhone didn't bring any new features to the smartphone arena, with the exception of the App Store. The Treos and nokia phones superseded iPhone as a smartphone, but had an revamped media player used in iPods and was so simple, a caveman could use it.

3. What Palm webOS feature do you think you'd miss the most if somebody replaced your webOS devices with a Nokia smartphone?

I would missed the in your face multitasking, but a similar feature is available on the n900. I would definitely miss the gestures and the notifications.

4. Will there always be a keyboard on Palm webOS devices? I personally prefer a hardware QWERTY keyboard and think this is a fine strategy, but wonder if they will have a form factor device similar to the iPhone.

I think it is one of the selling points of webOS. I prefer a hardware keyboard as well. Adding a virtual keyboard would not hurt for landscape view, but I would not trade in my hardware keyboard for a software keyboard. So I hope they keep the keyboard, but hardware keyboard is not for everyone and some people prefer the virtual keyboard.

5. If I was thinking about the Palm Pre as my device, what 3 things would you tell me about it to convince me to buy one?

Well since you had one, I would tell you build quality has improved greatly. The OTA updates have been a joy in adding missing features and new abilities. Last but not least, the multitasking and notification system has no equal and are the best for people who are on the go and are very busy. And if you need added features not naively provided, there might be a patch for that

[Audemars02]

Matt -- one question for you: How do you compare the Pre experience from the 1.0 Pre Pre you originally bought and returned vs the 1.3.5.1 Pre you see now? If Sprint signal wasn't an issue (maybe you have Verizon and could go with the Pre Plus), would you switch to webOS now or do you need to wait until 1.5 or 2.0 or some later version or different hardware?

[ripcity00]

1. Palm was the leader in the smartphone market with the Treo and then everyone else passed them by. I was blown away by the webOS announcement at CES in 2009. Just last week we saw them announce the Pre Plus and Pixi Plus for Verizon, along with excellent gaming support and more updates. Was this what you were expecting and if not, what were you hoping for?

It was about what I expected. The real question for me is what will the experience be like on Verizon (mods to the phone or other Verizon restrictions, cost of phone and data plans etc). I had some hope of a new device, but I don't expect that to happen until summer.

[jankyhanky]

1. It's been a year and all they did was swap out some memory chips. Lame. They could have at least put out a new model, preferably all touch screen. The Pixi doesn't count.
2. Nope. Verizon already has the Droid, Eris, and Nexus One. The Pre Plus is releasing in two weeks and I have yet to see any War of the Worlds -ish style commercials. WebOS is just one of many offerings on Verizon.
3. I'd be happy with a Nokia. WebOS looks good though.
4. An all touchscreen WebOS would be fantastic.
5. Gestures rock. Multitasking is very efficient. Touchstone is badass.

[sudoer]

Originally Posted by Audemars02

Matt -- one question for you: How do you compare the Pre experience from the 1.0 Pre Pre you originally bought and returned vs the 1.3.5.1 Pre you see now? If Sprint signal wasn't an issue (maybe you have Verizon and could go with the Pre Plus), would you switch to webOS now or do you need to wait until 1.5 or 2.0 or some later version or different hardware?

I'm not Matt, but if I was upgrading from a treo today, I'd still go with a Pre on Sprint. I'm not conditioned to Verizon's prices, and the Pre+ is not enough of an upgrade to justify the significantly higher plan cost.

[abhinandanjain]

Originally Posted by palmsolo

Here are a few questions I have for you Palm webOS owners to kick off the discussion:

1. Was this what you were expecting and if not, what were you hoping for?
2. Do you think the webOS will take off when it appears on Verizon Wireless later this month?
3. What Palm webOS feature do you think you'd miss the most if somebody replaced your webOS devices with a Nokia smartphone?
4. Will there always be a keyboard on Palm webOS devices?
5. If I was thinking about the Palm Pre as my device, what 3 things would you tell me about it to convince me to buy one?
www.smartphoneroundrobin.com

Hi Matt, being an avid Nokia user (India is a Nokia dominant country!) and having spent 3 years in the US on Verizon and T-mobile, here are my impressions after buying the GSM Pre (got lucky on that one through ebay):

1. Palm met my expectations at CES. Video recording and the new PDK will bring in some awesome apps, besides the good 3D games.

2. Yes, WebOS will definitely take off on Verizon. I hated Sprint when I was in the US, and Verizon was much more desirable as a carrier (at that time - Don't know how Sprint is doing now)

3. The features I'd miss the most after going back to a Nokia (E72 or N97 mini) would be Synergy (for contacts and calendar management), ease of multitasking, and the configurability due to homebrew such as Preware

4. Whether future WebOS devices will have a keyboard or not, I will always prefer a device with a hardware QWERTY - its the single biggest reason I loved the E71, and now the Pre - typing on a software keyboard just doesn't cut it for me.

5. I would tell you these 3 things:
a) The synergy functions and the cloud based backup (+awesome backup solutions like gsyncit) will help you organize your contacts and calendar (and therefore your life) better
b) The true multitasking and non-intrusive notifications will help you realise that the way you use your phone (ignore phone calls easily, keep doing what you're doing without bothering about those notifications) is simply not possible on a Nokia or any other phone
c) The active WebOS support with the numerous OTA updates, easy app distribution model and the support of homebrew will ensure that any features that you DO miss will be taken care of sooner or later - its happened with me - I wanted a flashlight app - I have it now, I wanted those little changes to the UI - I have it now. I want voice and call recording - I know that I'll get it soon

[palmsolo]

Originally Posted by Audemars02

Matt -- one question for you: How do you compare the Pre experience from the 1.0 Pre Pre you originally bought and returned vs the 1.3.5.1 Pre you see now? If Sprint signal wasn't an issue (maybe you have Verizon and could go with the Pre Plus), would you switch to webOS now or do you need to wait until 1.5 or 2.0 or some later version or different hardware?

If there was a Pre on T-Mobile I would be all over it for sure. I just may go with Verizon and the Pre Plus though to replace the MiFi that I have, but I need pricing details. I REALLY like what I see with webOS over what I see with the iPhone. The Synergy, notifications, multi-tasking, and intuitiveness of the operating system are very attractive to me. I don't need to wait for any further updates, I just need the carrier to be right for me.

[palmsolo]

Originally Posted by bclancy

I'm not Matt, but if I was upgrading from a treo today, I'd still go with a Pre on Sprint. I'm not conditioned to Verizon's prices, and the Pre+ is not enough of an upgrade to justify the significantly higher plan cost.

Yeah, Sprint has some amazing price and plan options with free navigation, NFL Mobile, and more all rolled in. I just wish I had a stronger Sprint signal. I always heard that Sprint had poor customer service, but honestly when I had the Pre I was actually quite impressed with the services I received.

[palmsolo]

So we now see that webOS devices will very shortly be on both Sprint and Verizon. I have a couple questions about carriers in relation to webOS.

1. Will Sprint get the Pre Plus and Pixi Plus too?
2. We heard AT&T state webOS devices are coming in early 2010. Why didn't Palm talk about them, what are they going to be, and when will we see them?
3. Will we see a webOS device on T-Mobile? Any rumors at all of this?

[spare]

Originally Posted by palmsolo

So we now see that webOS devices will very shortly be on both Sprint and Verizon. I have a couple questions about carriers in relation to webOS.

1. Will Sprint get the Pre Plus and Pixi Plus too?
2. We heard AT&T state webOS devices are coming in early 2010. Why didn't Palm talk about them, what are they going to be, and when will we see them?
3. Will we see a webOS device on T-Mobile? Any rumors at all of this?

1. Not likely, by the time the exclusive deal with big V doesn't matter, it'd be time for pre 2.
2. Probably not to hurt sales on big V or weaken relations with big V for now. When you have an exclusive, you can make a big deal about it.
3. No rumors but I don't see why not other than Palm wanting to get on big V and/or att before going to tmo.

[bluenote]

1. Yes, hoping for speed, extra storage, more memory so functionality will be increased.
Gaming a plus--hopefully that will increase popularity and ensure success
2. Yes for Verizon. Many stay with Verizon because of the strength of the network coverage but would like a strong smartphone with a keyboard. Pre Plus could pull from blackberry users and disaffected droid users that are disappointed by its lack of software storage capacity and confusion over which programs are running in the background. Pre Plus could also pull from AT&T iphone users who are contending with dropped calls.
3. Don't know Nokia.
4. Can't see into the future of Palm's strategy but think they were smart today to differentiate themselves from the iphone by a physical keyboard and smaller pocket-sized form factor.

5. Ease of use and notifications
Multitasking
Innovative Homebrew community

[Vociferous]

Hey Palmsolo, nice name!

And really sorry to hear about your Pre experience. I got my Pre on day one from Bell, and the device is so solid, and the signal... it's Bell, it's everywhere. I left Rogers to go to Bell because of the dropped calls and I haven't been let down. Just so you know it is possible to get a Pre with great build quality and signal. Not that I'm trying to rub it in your face or anything

1. I didn't expect anything at all actually, so every announcement was all good to me. I didn't expect SFR, that's big. I kinda expected Verizon, but if there was no Verizon announcement, that wouldn't of surprised me. It would have terrified me, but not surprised me.

2. Lets hope. Here in Canada, Bell has tons of users, and the Pre is doing okay. Not crazy super iPhone, and not bad either. They're doing okay. I'd love to see the Pixi here, but the Centro didn't get to Bell until Jan 2009, so...

3. Too many to mention, but right now I find that I use my bluetooth headset and wifi so much that if I didn't have a super easy way to swipe and turn them on and off it would drive me CRAZY! I'm also addicted to swiping to close a program. I should be tired of it by now, and I don't know why, but I still love it. And the touchstone. I barely ever plug my phone into my computer now. I can't believe that I'm so lazy that I can't even be bothered to plug my phone into my desktop to sync. Wow. That's sad.

4. My guess, and this is just a guess, but Jon Rubenstein Left Apple and the iPhone behind. Jon would know exactly how to make the Pre into a non keyboard phone, but I think it has to do with what they would call Palm's DNA. Personally I don't care. They can have a keyboardless phone if they want, I would just never use it. What they really need to do is work on another form factor for the keyboard. I like it, but many people I show the phone to dismiss it without even using it. Palm needs a model of the phone with a keyboard that once you look at it, you know you'll love using it.

5. a) One handed typing. On the bus or subway, it's more important than you'd think. b) The web browser c) the easy way to get at core functionality like blue tooth and wifi

Now, after having said all that, I still think that after 1.4, the phone is really going somewhere. Up until now, I've been a beta tester, and I don't mind, I kinda knew it going in, and I've actually found it exciting, but I've got a friend who is very frustrated, and just wants voice dialing, right now. the Pre is so close to being an awesome phone. Really close.

[jmkjmk]

Originally Posted by palmsolo

4. Will there always be a keyboard on Palm webOS devices? I personally prefer a hardware QWERTY keyboard and think this is a fine strategy, but wonder if they will have a form factor device similar to the iPhone.

I think there will always be one. Palm seems to like to give options, which is always a good thi ng, so I can see future phones having an on-screen keyboard built in along with a hardware keyboard, but I don't see a phone with on-screen only in the near future.

[bruneti]

Originally Posted by palmsolo

So we now see that webOS devices will very shortly be on both Sprint and Verizon. I have a couple questions about carriers in relation to webOS.

1. Will Sprint get the Pre Plus and Pixi Plus too?
2. We heard AT&T state webOS devices are coming in early 2010. Why didn't Palm talk about them, what are they going to be, and when will we see them?
3. Will we see a webOS device on T-Mobile? Any rumors at all of this?

1. I agree with spare. No "Plus" devices to other carriers during the Verizon exclusivity period.
2. Not sure why Palm didn't at least mention AT&T, unless Verizon didn't want to share stage time with the competition. AT&T will only get the standard Pre & Pixi - same as Sprint. I'm guessing we'll probably see them launch on AT&T in late February or March. Palm will want to properly support a few weeks of launch on Verizon first. Remember, Palm is a fairly small company of around 1000 employees. They don't want to get spread too thin.
3. T-mo = No. Not at this time. Maybe once they have webOS 2.0 or beyond released, and the code & features are even more refined and stable. Again, they need to balance their support of current devices, and the development of new ones. They have limited resources right now to do this. Once they are profitable and growing their employee base, they will be able to support more carriers.

That said, Palm really needs to do a MUCH better job with advertising than they did when the Pre released on Sprint. They need to sell-through some product on these carriers they have signed.

[Jlgraham]

If someone gave me a Nokia I would miss the card view! Best OS idea for a smartphone

[Rkguy]

1. I pretty much got what I was expecting because of the various well placed leaks but I was hoping for a much faster UI due to software improvements as well as the ability for native apps. We are getting close with the PDK which is nice.

2. It will not take off but will smolder for a while until the next great webos device. The fanfare is gone and people are now buying this phone more as a daily driver.

3. I think I would miss the quick app manager and the simple notification system. Critical to me is the way it integrates my work, yahoo, and gmail. I love getting mail as it arrives in my IMAP inbox. I would also miss the nicely integrated app catalog

4. There will be a keyboard and I think they will improve. The Pixi keyboard is leaps beyond the Pre keyboard but the full screen form factor of the Pre is simply much better IMO.

5. I would probably do a demo of the universal search to find your contact, call you, and while calling you ask when the last time you changed your facebook profile pic is, showing it to you on my call screen (and then I'd be the cheesiest). I would certainly demo multitasking. More than anything I would want to showcase how the software is taking advantage of the hardware: How GeoStrings lets you pull your task manager into the 4th dimension with time and location based alerts, how google voice ties into the phone so easily and how the visual voicemail app integrates so well into the notification system you would think it was part of the Palm software. The obligatory 3d game demo would round out the app demo.