Pre vs HTC Hero

[grndslm]

The 40% came from my example of how a GPU will take a TINY percentage of power/processes to do that same 40% on the CPU. I have done no tests, nor did I say I did.

Soo... I will be awaiting your valid research. Until that time, there is no proof on how many processes are wasted on pushing the GUI around.

[grndslm]

Right off the bat... idling is running around ~15%. Simply sliding left to right in cards view jumps up to 40%. I'm sure that scrolling on a webpage staying at 40+% is not going to lead to very favorable results.

So 25% on my VERY FIRST test. How surprising. Load a webpage and then the card starts stuttering when you try to minimize the terminal. You wouldn't experience that if the "second processor" was actually doing its job.

[grndslm]

Scrolling on a webpage makes it jump from 18-20% all the way to 73%.

Holy Mother of God... 50+% CPU wasted on what the GPU could be doing in about 2-3%, probly less.

[grndslm]

Somebody's a pretty crappy computer engineer.

[UF15]

Originally Posted by grndslm

The 40% came from my example of how a GPU will take a TINY percentage of power/processes to do that same 40% on the CPU. I have done no tests, nor did I say I did.

Your argument loses water here. Sure, IF the CPU was using 40% of its power to do graphical rendering, then it would be a difference. Not a single person has argued this point with you. The argument is actually whether this is the case that the CPU is using 40% of its power. There is NO EVIDENCE that this is the case other than you just fabricating a number. How do you know it isn't .5%? You say "common sense," but you are not a chip engineer, so you don't really have common sense in that field. And just because you find a way to equate it to something that is truthful with cars doesn't mean that it is an apt comparison.

Originally Posted by grndslm

Soo... I will be awaiting your valid research. Until that time, there is no proof on how many processes are wasted on pushing the GUI around.

Why is the onus on me to provide evidence? You have been making claims for weeks without ANY evidence. So why do I have to when you don't?

OK, right off the bat, my samples are idling at ~5%-15%. Simply sliding left to right in cards view jumps up to 4%. Yours is getting 40%? Maybe something is wrong with your Pre.

[grndslm]

Let a webpage like Engadget load completely. Scroll up/down/all around. Then check it. I got it up to 73% no problem.

[UF15]

Originally Posted by grndslm

Scrolling on a webpage makes it jump from 18-20% all the way to 73%.

Holy Mother of God... 50+% CPU wasted on what the GPU could be doing in about 2-3%, probly less.

I still contend something is wrong with your Pre.

Secondly, you are just showing that your CPU use increases when running an application. You have NOT shown that the CPU increase is because of it rendering graphics solely. In fact, and you should know this because you are clearly an expert, there are a lot more things the CPU is doing to run that application then displaying them on the screen. In actuality, the majority of the active CPU processes are doing something OTHER than graphical computation.

[grndslm]

The reason people see such horrible battery life is because the screen's on!!

If you keep your screen off all day, your battery won't budge much. If the screen is on... you need to be scrolling something... webpage, cards, news feeds, email, scrolling drop-down menus, scrolling launchers, scrolling apps off the top of the screen, scrolling apps from below the screen to the middle when you open it, scroll, scroll, scroll.

That is what causes stutter, lag, and the assassination of battery life.

[grndslm]

Originally Posted by UF15

I still contend something is wrong with your Pre.

Secondly, you are just showing that your CPU use increases when running an application. You have NOT shown that the CPU increase is because of it rendering graphics solely. In fact, and you should know this because you are clearly an expert, there are a lot more things the CPU is doing to run that application then displaying them on the screen. In actuality, the majority of the active CPU processes are doing something OTHER than graphical computation.

Look up... I said with Engadget loaded & idle... 18-20%.

Scrolling up/down/all around and flicking back to terminal got 73% my first try with scrolling in the browser, which I explained long ago was the biggest drain on battery life. Go back and look it up if you wish. It's common sense.

[UF15]

Originally Posted by grndslm

Let a webpage like Engadget load completely. Scroll up/down/all around. Then check it. I got it up to 73% no problem.

I'm showing 5% of it is because of graphic rendering.

What readout are you getting from the graphics portion of that?

Seriously, you should call up Sprint and maybe swap out your model.

[UF15]

Originally Posted by grndslm

The reason people see such horrible battery life is because the screen's on!!

Right, and none of that has to do with illuminating a back-light.

[grndslm]

Originally Posted by UF15

Right, and none of that has to do with illuminating a back-light.

Well.. webOS puts everything to sleep... so no graphical output would be wasted on the CPU. If the screen is on... CPU is wasting FAR MORE than the backlight.

There is nothing wrong with my Pre, dude. They didn't just sporadically add this into the assembly line. Build date of October 8. It runs like every other stock Pre, I'm sure. I only have a few applications and hardly any patches. Multi-Mod for sure so I can get page up/down buttons.

For my readout, I'm looking at top in a terminal just to the left of my browser. I've got two cards open. As soon as top shows that Engadget has stopped loading (18-20%)... I go back to the browser, then I scroll and scroll and scroll... go back to Terminal and top is showing 73%, 67%, 63%, 54%, 31%, 22%, etc.

[UF15]

Originally Posted by grndslm

For my readout, I'm looking at top in a terminal just to the left of my browser. I've got two cards open. As soon as top shows that Engadget has stopped loading (18-20%)... I go back to the browser, then I scroll and scroll and scroll... go back to Terminal and top is showing 73%, 67%, 63%, 54%, 31%, 22%, etc.

I think your main hurdle from understanding how computers work, and this is from a logical standpoint, is distinguishing what percentage of that 73% is solely due to graphic rendering.

You see, you have to understand that just because the CPU is running at 73% (and I still believe something is wrong with yours), doesn't mean that all of that is from drawing and refreshing graphical frames. I think you just assumed that it is, and built all your other assumptions on top of that. Unfortunately, the foundation for your argument is wrong, and the CPU isn't being taxed because of graphical rendering as much as you had hoped.

Saying 73% or 67% CPU usage means nothing unless you can prove it directly related to rendering what appears on screen. You have utterly failed to do this. Using that common sense you talk about, just think about all the other instructions, far more complex than graphics, a CPU is constantly tackling to keep every function of everything going.

[awrnsmn]

I thought this was the Hero vs Pre forum. Looking at the above post, this must be the dual core cpu, no it wont be like that your wrong post.

just kidding....carry on

[gmanvbva]

grndslm you did not make a single counter point based on anything factual or with any type of representative truths.

You obviously know nothing about CPU/GPU architectures or how operating systems employ them. Making statements (yet again) like that just show your true ignorance and arrogance.
At this point, your ignorance is only outdone by your arrogance.

PS: I think UF15 just caught you in a flat out lie.

Main Entry: lie
Function: verb
intransitive verb

1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
2 : to create a false or misleading impression

[meyerweb]

Originally Posted by grndslm

All I'm trying to say is that webOS is the better platform for most people. It should be the default OS unless you NEED something on another platform. And I don't see most people NEEDING anything from the 2,000 Android apps (not 10,000... most are themes).

If the apps on the Pre, as it ships today, are really enough to meet all your needs, then your needs are extremely simple. I guarantee you that the currently available apps don't come close to what I get everyday with my P-OS Treo.

Don't project your simplistic lifestyle onto all other smartphone users, please, as you obviously have no basis on which to know, nor even guess, the needs of millions of other people.

*******

Grndslam clearly has no idea what he's talking about when it comes to processors, nor what a GPU will and won't speed up. He says:

If they knew what I knew, they'd have sold about 5 times as many Pres... at least.

but it appears he knows very little, as opposed to thinking he knows almost everything. He even know what each and everyone of the millions of smartphone users really need. Ignore list time. He hasn't had anything useful to say in ages.

[gmanvbva]

To help you a little since you apparently can not grasp this.

The GPU is not rendering the web page for display simply because it shows it on a screen. The CPU is responsible for rendering the web based code (html, javascript, php, etc.) by the use of a rendering engine employed by the browser in use.

[meyerweb]

Originally Posted by grndslm

The 40% came from my example of how a GPU will take a TINY percentage of power/processes to do that same 40% on the CPU. I have done no tests, nor did I say I did.

Soo... I will be awaiting your valid research. Until that time, there is no proof on how many processes are wasted on pushing the GUI around.

This is hilarious! grndslm provides no, nada, none, zed, zero research of his own, then demands others provide it. This man has an ego the size of Montana.

Can we please get back to talking about the Hero. There's a small chance it could be my next phone.

[hparsons]

Originally Posted by gmanvbva

...
Then there is 1.3.1 that is wreaking havoc on homebrew apps and tweaks. I think everyone that installed homebrew apps/tweaks understood this might be a possibility with every patch but this is the first time it has significantly impacted those apps/tweaks. Android may have it's issues with updates (if you tweak/hack it) as well. I'm not sure at this point on that.
...

Sorry, this statement is simply incorrect.

Anyone that understands how the HomeBrew tweaks work, and how the updates work, understands; not that it "might" be a possibility, but that it will happen. Every update so far has overwritten the existing JavaScript, HTML, and graphics file. This erases every tweak. Period.

[gmanvbva]

Originally Posted by hparsons

Sorry, this statement is simply incorrect.

Anyone that understands how the HomeBrew tweaks work, and how the updates work, understands; not that it "might" be a possibility, but that it will happen. Every update so far has overwritten the existing JavaScript, HTML, and graphics file. This erases every tweak. Period.

In the context I was making the statement in, I was referring to those tweaks, hacks, applications that enhance the Pre and make it passable and comparable to other "smartphone" offerings. This would inculde just about any deviation from stock and any application outside of what the Palm App Store currently offers. Perhaps you are simply referring to only those offered by the webOS Quick Install / Preware.

All of this may (or may not) be broken by a Palm update or need to be modified. Not simply needing to be reapplied. There was more impact on these things by 1.3.1 than previous patches.

Also, with the addition of those tweaks in Preware and webOS Quick install and the popularity of the Homebrew applications, means many more people are applying those tweaks, patches and installing applications. More average users doing this means more pain felt when things break and they are unsure of what to do.

In my context, what you stated is simply not (entirely) true. I made numerous direct modifications (tweaks, hacks, app installs, etc.) to my Pre (with root/terminal access) during the first month or so. Some were impacted by those initial patches and some were not. Also, there were (and still are) numerous homebrew applications that have been unaffected by previous patches.

Also, it is obvious (again from the boards) that not everyone understands how "how the HomeBrew tweaks work, and how the updates work". And yes this includes people using those "tweaks".