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Ex Palm dev Gray Norton on webOS TVS
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Old 12/05/2013, 11:56 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Not sure this was mentioned here. I thought, I'd share... Interesting, even if he talks about TV only.
LG's Gray Norton talks the future of Smart TVs - Developer Tech

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Old 12/05/2013, 01:33 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Not sure this was mentioned here. I thought, I'd share... Interesting, even if he talks about TV only.
LG's Gray Norton talks the future of Smart TVs - Developer Tech
i think smart tv is redundant and unnecessary, except in the digital media arena where the screen may be the only hardware in place.

id rather a home monitor be just that, a great display that accepts any input. and is affordable and durable.

the way i'd like to see tv develop is to be able yo use your phone as your remote. the netflix and etc apps are controlled by you, and GO WITH YOU to be used on any tv you connect to by local IP or BT.

keep the control and access in your personal device.

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Old 12/05/2013, 01:57 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I think I agree. But any sign of a future for webOS gives me hope. I don't even have a TV nor do i want want.
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Old 12/05/2013, 02:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
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the way i'd like to see tv develop is to be able yo use your phone as your remote. the netflix and etc apps are controlled by you, and GO WITH YOU to be used on any tv you connect to by local IP or BT.

keep the control and access in your personal device.
You should check out the Chromecast... That's exactly how it works. You can't use webOS devices to control it though. :/

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Old 12/05/2013, 02:38 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I do not know if it will exist...

I want a TV that is large tablet, full Touch without Touch (do not want Finger Prints, but it would have to examine gestures)...

Next Picture-in-Picture, I like to watch many channels at the same time, why not allow users to have as many channels in a card side by side 1x1 (2) or 2x2 (4) or 3x3 (6), with the audio either split or joined depending on my settings... with a hard drive to record the live channel, which you can then bring a channel to front and pause all the other channels, then when you are done with the focus, you can then drop back to all channels on the screen...

Oh of course, when AD's show mute the TV (I understand that is how they pay for things, to bad, I see an AD I switch the channel), find a different revenue method...

Drives me nuts, people pay for TV, then they have AD's on the channels hey we already paid for that sounds like double dipping...
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Old 12/05/2013, 03:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Drives me nuts, people pay for TV, then they have AD's on the channels hey we already paid for that sounds like double dipping...
+1 for this
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Old 12/06/2013, 10:04 AM   #7 (permalink)
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To be somewhat fair, most of the channels that you pay for, you're paying mostly for the delivery of the channel, most of the channels that run ads, receive somewhere between little to nothing of your cable or satellite subscription fees.

TJs11thPre: sounds like you are describing WiDi, Miracast, there may be others.

John Steffes: Sadly, that would require a great deal of video decoding hardware power that is not available to common sets currently. From what I've seen, it seems pretty rare that in this age of HD (and soon to be 4K) that there are sets that even have 2-input PIP functionality, like we had back in the mid to late 90's with pretty much every CRT TV >= 27" display size on earth.

As the number of pixels needed to support grows, so too does the processing power required to be able to receive it, decode it, and display it. We're no longer in an analog TV world, where clever analog inventions are able to almost directly take a broadcast signal and make it magically appear in a format that makes sense to your eyeballs at 24+fps on a screen, without a crapton of CPU power behind it.

Yes, I too, would love to see the day when we can have a dozen video streams all running live on one giant display.. but, other than saying "HEY that's neat!" how much would we -actually- use it?

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Old 12/06/2013, 11:25 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Where I see multi screens: Sports... I am not a big sports guy, so do not care for the players attitudes, salaries, or their silly issues...

Why not have all the games playing, when one goes to commercial I can change the focus to a game that is not...

Being able to watch multi games has been costly, look at a bar, buy many TV's, each tuned to different games...

I am sure there are those that bought two or more 60 inch TVS, put them together and now you have an 120 inch or (bigger) display that you can cut

If I was at home, why not have one DISPLAY, with many decoders built in, so I can stream each game... I can see this in other things, like you like two shows want to watch both, flipping between them, works, but not great and the PIP we have now is not even close to what I am thinking about...

Big thing coming 2014, Winter Olympics, the games happen at the same time, instead of broadcasting one live and the other recorded at another time, why not broadcast all at the same time, you can then watch all at the same time...

Like everything else, there is a need, webOS can provide the UI to fulfill the need, with cards and the ability to stack the channels, but I am also adding a twist, not only having one card being the focus, but allowing to have more then one be sharing the focus, with the ability to control the volume of each card separately. The dimension, of this can also be used with interactive TV...

Say you are watching a show, want to tweet it and then post a picture of the image with your tweet into facebook? (I do not tweet or facebook)

Things you can only do with a tablet/computer, I see the transition into the TV.

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Old 12/06/2013, 12:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I have seen projects where a PC contains multiple tuner/decoder cards. The purpose is to enable streaming on a LAN so that anyone can watch any of the available channels on whatever device. I believe this sort of thing is available commercially for hotel TV systems. I see no reason why it couldn't be used to send multiple channels to a single screen, but of course, the hardware cost can be significant. Most systems will have two tuners - one to watch & one to record.
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Old 12/06/2013, 08:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I think the TV can and will be a hub for our homes someday. I think that multi-decoders aren't that costly to include, because the tech is already mature and available in DVR's and other devices. If I could plug my satellite into my tv and skip the proprietary "set top" boxes / DVR / DVD players etc. it would much simpler. If my tv could run apps / services like TiVo / DirecTV / Hulu / Netflix, then I wouldn't need dedicated hardware and dedicated, separate inputs to have to switch around and could "multitask", instead of having to pick an external device, switch to the appropriate input, and then control the alternate device.

Universal remotes are a crappy solution, because there always a feature you can't use it for and need the device remote to invoke it. (unless you have thousands of dollars for a proprietary high-end system). TV mfrs have never taken the steps to truly unify the TV as the hub since the advent of cable/satellite, presumably because of the inherent proprietary operation of those providers. They've invested in their proprietary system to attempt to "capture" the customer, and control the input through the hardware infrastructure.

"Cable ready" and Cable card was supposed to be a standard to allow device mfrs to integrate the content provider into the device. But cable isn't ubiquitous enough anymore, so its a fragmented standard, but few devices have married it to the TV itself, which is the one device that is actually ubiquitous and necessary for any device. Todays technology is capable of integrating all of these devices in a chip or a small card, and the actual output IS A STANDARD that any TV can display. What we are missing is a company that can integrate these device chips and provide a method of common controls for them.

Ideally, the content providers should license or provide their proprietary input processing to mfrs and conform a standardized control system that can be mapped to master control software in the TV itself. A sort of XML that provides its controls to the master controller software to enable both common and proprietary controls to the TV software. This way the TV can use a software control system instead of having to guess what services it must accommodate in its core firmware programming. The input system/decoder could simply be integrated into the TV HW, either onboard or as a common expansion "card" that can process a source input and the appropriate controls would be available accordingly. This means the service providers could still sell their service to the end user without damaging their business model, and their service would be more easily available to consumers, without the inconveniences of the disparate, specialized hardware devices we have to try to manually integrate into the one device that we actually need to consume them... The TV.

And a "multi-tasking" os like webOS would make this possible by allowing all the inputs to be manageable in the os, and not via "preemptive multi-tasking" that makes you have to close one input, while you interact with another, which is what all TV's do now. Even "Smart" TV's only let you view/interact with one input, or "smart" function at a time.

My TV is my home PC monitor. But I have to manually pick up the remote and switch inputs if I want to use the PC, or vice versa. I would love to be able to have both available, with one minimized, so I could expand one without stopping the other. I have a smart TV, but I can't access the smart apps, without switching away from the regular TV functions. I have a touchpad, so I can jump on that if I want to Google something or reply to a text or email while watching TV. But why shouldn't I be able to click a pause (or not) and expand my PC screen, and then flip back to the TV/DVR/DVD/netflix etc program without totally changing modes. We expect this on our PC's, and wouldn't buy one if we couldn't do this. Nothing is preventing the TV mfr from having PC level processing board installed, ala raspberry pi for instance. It doesn't need to be high-end to perform the functions a TV would need. My touchpad would fit in my TV without making it too big :-) Of course it will increase the price, but on the wholesale level, the HW required would be minimal $. And lets face it, smart TVs already have this built-in in some form already. We just need the service providers to license their HW and get out of the HW business. If DirecTV can stick 5 receivers in a box the size of my Christmas cards, it ain't the hardware tech holding us back.

And even if the proprietary delivery system HW is the restriction to creating a "TrueSmart" TV. All of the cable/sat providers already have the capacity to deliver their content via the internet. They limit it to create a need for their proprietary service, but there's no tech-based reason that prevents them from delivering their own distinct user experience to their customers, as long as the customer has the appropriate bandwidth to deliver it. And for those that don't, they still have a valid value proposition to utilize their existing infrastructure to provide a value to those that require it.

It all really boils down to entrenched businesses refusing to adapt in fear of cannibalizing current business. We all know how that usually works out :-). (Blockbuster... the whole music business... HP... To name a few)

Tech is not a limitation. Getting old-model businesses, DVD, DVR, Cable, Satellite, etc to realize that the world has changed, is the piece that prevents us from realizing innovation in the TV market.
The current, connected world is taking us to places we could only imagine a few years ago. The difficult part of rapid advance, is that the innovators create new opportunities in haphazard form, and the big players who have the resources to manage and support the new paradigms, don't have the vision or will to participate, and end up as dinosaurs, while the market fragments. So we end up with a variety of separate choices that require us to pick from various, incompatible options, and end up having to choose either/or, rather than choosing a, c, and f to meet our personal needs.
I love choice, and I don't believe in standards that limit choice. But I also don't believe in choices that exclude options.

I'd love to see LG move that paradigm, and they have their fingers in enough pies to potentially do it. The big question is getting the service providers involved in the process in a real way, or just providing an API for silly apps.

</soapbox>
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Old 12/08/2013, 07:03 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I do not know if it will exist...

I want a TV that is large tablet, full Touch without Touch (do not want Finger Prints, but it would have to examine gestures)...

Next Picture-in-Picture, I like to watch many channels at the same time, why not allow users to have as many channels in a card side by side 1x1 (2) or 2x2 (4) or 3x3 (6), with the audio either split or joined depending on my settings... with a hard drive to record the live channel, which you can then bring a channel to front and pause all the other channels, then when you are done with the focus, you can then drop back to all channels on the screen...

Oh of course, when AD's show mute the TV (I understand that is how they pay for things, to bad, I see an AD I switch the channel), find a different revenue method...

Drives me nuts, people pay for TV, then they have AD's on the channels hey we already paid for that sounds like double dipping...
I think xbox one has lots of what you mention. Gesture via kinect camera, and ability to task switch and run two apps simultaneously. One of those apps can be tv screen or game.
I think LG and lots of other players have ideas for smart tv. Samsung has a SAMSUNG Smart Media Player which adds those capabilities. Evolution Kit for Samsung Smart TV always you to add those abilities to samsung current tvs since they know consumers won't upgrade their tv's constantly. LG prob will try the same. Build into new tvs and add a box to old ones.
The issue is some of the competitors is so inexpesnvie. Chromecast is $35 dollars. Roku has 2 models both under 100. Apple tv under 100. Xbox (360 and one) and Playstation 3 and 4 are more expensive but have more functionality plus Blue Ray or DVD player.
So consumer has lots of competing and overlapping choices right now and more in the future!
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Old 12/08/2013, 10:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Simply tuning and receiving a broadcast is only one piece of the puzzle, and it's the easier piece. Translating multiple streams of 1080p or worse 4k video and audio data into something visible and audible is the hard part. Modern tvs with DVD ability basically have one video decoder running, even if multiple sources are being tuned and recorded. Pip isn't that common of a feature because of the horsepower required to display multiple hd things simultaneously.


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Old 12/09/2013, 05:03 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I've heard it said (and I'm inclined to agree) that the best solution is kind of modular. The key is a high quality panel, to which you can connect the smart device of your choice.

I'm not sure whether it would be better to do the decoding in the panel or the smartbox, but as an example, you might buy the screen of your choice and the 'smart' bit would be a box you add - could be a LG webOS box or a Samsung Tizen box, etc. - whatever works best for you.

This would also enable you to retain the screen and swap out the smartbox, or connect a better screen to the existing box.
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Old 12/09/2013, 07:06 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Yeah, but that's not what the manufacturers want.

TVs have a similar issue like Android Smartphones. They are all to damn similar to make a difference. Some (or better: quite a lot) of those TV manufacturers do not even build the panels themselves anymore. The "Smart" part of the TV is what they use to try to make a difference (just like the Software-Addons on Android).
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Old 12/09/2013, 02:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I love reading news on a webOS tv, but still wonder a lot about it. I was a hardcore webOS enthusiast and stuck with it for a long time by buying used pre's and making a franken pre 2 on sprint. I eventually moved on to a Android Nexus device and find the support and updates a welcoming thing these days. I am soo invested in the eco system, it would be hard to go back.

After having my phone control any tv with my chromecast, it would take a lot to have me spend top $ to get a webOS tv and be back in the webOS world...unless they got major app support and phones down the road. Otherwise Androids advancing too much to leave.

If webOS never went away in the first place, I think it had a chance to be in 3rd place easily behind android/apple, but I'm not too hopeful anymore after seeing windows, nokia etc spend millions to barely gain traction. I will for one be watching any coverage on the tv, and be in the store the day they release to try them out. But I'd expect these tv's to cost $1500+ and not be a impulse buy for me like I wish I could get.
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Old 12/11/2013, 11:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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ryancell,

Remember the part about webOS being all about Open Standards?

Keep remembering it. :-)
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Old 12/12/2013, 12:19 PM   #17 (permalink)
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ryancell,

Remember the part about webOS being all about Open Standards?

Keep remembering it. :-)
I like the sound of that... Especially considering the source.
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Old 12/12/2013, 12:48 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I love when Eric posts a teaser post. Eagerly awaiting sir.

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Old 12/14/2013, 06:31 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Well, here's one open standard.. LG Newsroom
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Old 12/16/2013, 08:02 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Well, here's one open standard.. LG Newsroom
Well how interesting... this looks like an answer to one of my thoughts :-)

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Ideally, the content providers should license or provide their proprietary input processing to mfrs and conform a standardized control system that can be mapped to master control software in the TV itself. A sort of XML that provides its controls to the master controller software to enable both common and proprietary controls to the TV software. This way the TV can use a software control system instead of having to guess what services it must accommodate in its core firmware programming. The input system/decoder could simply be integrated into the TV HW, either onboard or as a common expansion "card" that can process a source input and the appropriate controls would be available accordingly. This means the service providers could still sell their service to the end user without damaging their business model, and their service would be more easily available to consumers, without the inconveniences of the disparate, specialized hardware devices we have to try to manually integrate into the one device that we actually need to consume them... The TV.

:-)
Of course this press release sounds primarily related to controlling the "apps". However it sounds like it could be applied to the cable/satellite providers as well if they were to get on board. We can already control our DVR's with Android/iOS apps, so no reason they couldn't integrate built-in HW functions/decoders, controlled via these "apps" and a unified control API, with or without the OE provider HW. Of course I suspect the providers may still cling to their separate HW for some time still, but at least there may be potential for a unified control interface, which addresses our interests in controlling our choice of content, from a common device, as opposed to disjointed, proprietary input systems/software.
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