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Old 06/18/2013, 02:12 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Just a thought, but considering the success of the recent kickstart project for teh Android ACL. How about a kickstart project to port OpenWebOS, and some of the missing functionality like a phone interface, to one of the nexus devices.

We will then have a platform to carry on with.

Pie in the sky?
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Old 06/18/2013, 02:59 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Where should the money go? Do you want to found a company and hire engineers? There is a lot of effort someone has to put into such a project just to organize stuff and so on...

AFAIK webos internals and webos ports have enough funding but lack in man power... So just a lot of money won't help that much, currently (if you can not convince the people currently working on it to quit their day job and take your money that is ).

But if you get something like that running, count me in.
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Old 06/18/2013, 03:40 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I think the first question we should ask is how much effort is required to get the basic system running? and we need to identify the items to be fixed. I personally think that if webos-ports is 'serious' about getting a base port available -- calculate an estimate for the effort to get the base up, do up an cost effort, and sub some components out to lower costs countries and project manage it. AND they can do the Redhat model, and do up a subscription costs that makes sense ...I'm all for paying a sum for a mobile OS that I like to use.

on a side note - I had a discussion through a contact with chomper...there are developers in China, unfortunately there is no alignment between our guys and those zoopda guys.. There is strength in numbers, and i do think if all the Palm/webos developers who love the OS come together, we can get things going at a faster rate.
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Old 06/18/2013, 04:18 AM   #4 (permalink)
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It had started end of last year, in case you didn't notice.
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Old 06/18/2013, 07:21 AM   #5 (permalink)
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money isnt the issue its open/compatible/suitable drivers thats always been the issue.
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Old 06/18/2013, 02:05 PM   #6 (permalink)
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This:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfonso View Post
[...]

AFAIK webos internals and webos ports have enough funding but lack in man power... So just a lot of money won't help that much, currently (if you can not convince the people currently working on it to quit their day job and take your money that is ).

[...]
and this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dignitary View Post
If you've got a few hundred thousand running around, great.

But a hundred bucks here and there isn't going to draw much interest from the outside developer community to do much of anything, considering your typical contract OS developer worth their mettle makes about $125 per hour...and that's on the low-end.
(from Code Ransom? post #5 ...well, actually, do read the whole thread )

But... if you want to still explore the "contract engineering" approach, be sure to check out Cardinal Peak, maybe have a look at their blog to see what they are about... Full Service Design Services Engineering Company, Embedded Engineering Consulting, Digital Video Engineering Services, Cardinal Peak

For the record, i'm not affiliated with the company at any level. However, i believe they are honest and accurate with their time/cost estimates, have the necessary skills do do a quality job, and most of all, have been fans of webOS from the very beginning, so they won't laugh behind our back as they take our money.

But then again, the cost of hiring outside help might not appeal to most. The PIC/OM allies have been egging me on to do a Kickstarter for this particular issue (Android driver support for webOS) so that they'd have their turn to crap on my ideas (or not ), but i'm not going to rush headfirst into launching the Kickstarter here and now. We'll all need to talk about this first, get some concrete figures together...


That said, i think the core apps like "phone" and "address book" should be done by the community and not outsourced to another company. They are too small and too easy to build/fix, to pay someone else to do it. And i wouldn't necessarily look for cheap labor in countries like India either, because they don't take the issue of copyright/code ownership too seriously. You get "pig in a poke", but still have to pay for the job regardless of quality/legal issues.
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Old 06/19/2013, 10:42 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siobhanellis View Post
Just a thought, but considering the success of the recent kickstart project for teh Android ACL. How about a kickstart project to port OpenWebOS, and some of the missing functionality like a phone interface, to one of the nexus devices.
  • Q1: If it's funded, who's going to be held accountable if it fails to deliver?
  • Q2: Are you offering to lead the effort from an organizational standpoint and take on that accountability?
  • Q3: If your answer to #2 is negative, who are you volunteering (without asking them) to lead the effort instead?
  • Q4: How do you propose to break the current roadblocks the entire webOS Ports effort are confronting, from an angle they haven't yet tried?
  • Q5: How sure are you of this that your angle is more realistic and has a good cost/benefit given the potential funding levels your ideal Kickstarter seeks to raise?
  • Q6: In the likelihood they would need to bring in external, targeted resources with expertise in the area(s) they're currently blocked, what is your resource plan (in terms of contract timing and payrate) in order to prevent cost overages that would jeopardize project success?
  • Q7: Timeline? Kickstarter kind of demands one.

See also: The above post.

The realism rarely ever matches the enthusiasm, I'm afraid. If you have pretty airtight answers to the above, then I think you might be onto something; as it is, the webOS Ports project is busy doing the best they can and keeping themselves at a safe distance from promises they can't make that a Kickstarter would force them to keep. Putting this monkey on their back, as unqualified as most people would be in leading such a project when there's actual money and commitments involved, would do them a huge disservice.

Last edited by dignitary; 06/19/2013 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 06/19/2013, 11:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siobhanellis View Post
Just a thought, but considering the success of the recent kickstart project for teh Android ACL. How about a kickstart project to port OpenWebOS, and some of the missing functionality like a phone interface, to one of the nexus devices.
This is hypothetical and not aimed at you directly so don't take it personally, but more generalized to people who come up with these ideas--including but not exclusive to the idea that money seems to fix everything--which is all too often since HP first shot webOS in both its kneecaps and especially now that the ACL got funded:

  • Q1: If it's funded, who's going to be held accountable if it fails to deliver?
  • Q2: Are you offering to lead the effort from an organizational standpoint and take on that accountability?
  • Q3: If your answer to #2 is negative, who are you volunteering (without asking them) to lead the effort instead?
  • Q4: How do you propose to break the current roadblocks the entire webOS Ports effort are confronting, from an angle they haven't yet tried?
  • Q5: How sure are you of this that your angle is more realistic and has a good cost/benefit given the potential funding levels your ideal Kickstarter seeks to raise?
  • Q6: In the likelihood they would need to bring in external, targeted resources with expertise in the area(s) they're currently blocked, what is your resource plan (in terms of contract timing and payrate) in order to prevent cost overages that would jeopardize project success?
  • Q7: Timeline? Kickstarter kind of demands one.
  • Q8: Most importantly, what if you get funded and discover that you can't deliver because the roadblock is insurmountable? Then what? You've spent all the money, brought in people, delayed the project deliverables by a few months, and you still can't get over the mountain. Now what do you do, having essentially damaged the reputation of every developer in the group, pissed off and further damaged the morale of what's left of the webOS community, and used up tens of thousands of their dollars with nothing to show for it?

Rarely does the realism ever match the enthusiasm of these ideas, I'm afraid. And money matched to commitment complicates everything. If you have pretty airtight answers to the above, then I think you might be onto something and should speak up; as it is, the webOS Ports project is busy doing the best they can and keeping themselves at a safe distance from promises they can't make that a Kickstarter would force them to keep. Putting this monkey on their back, as unqualified as most people here would be in leading such a project when there's actual money and commitments involved, would do them a huge disservice. Donate to their cause without obliging them to a timeline if you'd like, but stay the hell away from Kickstarter with this.

There's a damn good reason why they do what they do the way they do it. Respect it.
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Old 06/20/2013, 03:43 PM   #9 (permalink)
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you may note my status. I did donate to support web ports.

One disappointment for me, as a donator is that a number of projects have been started, but do not seem to have been completed.

Specifically I'd like to see another WebOS phone.

I was asking a question. As usual, the response is negative. Plenty of people to tell me why it can't be done.

What I was asking was quite simple. If there seemed to be a favourable response, then I would've gone into more complex questions.

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Old 06/20/2013, 04:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Negative?

No... just realistic..

There's not enough people to do everything and at the same time. Hiring people is expensive, and we must spend money wisely. Someone has to take responsibility and make sure a job is done from the beginning to the end... but most people here on the forum are just consumers, hence their financial support but not the contribution of some engineering or management effort. TBH, it sucks, but that's the realty.

If you put together good financing, engineers and managers, you pretty much have a corporation going... but right now it's still only a bunch of hobbyists doing work in their spare time (me included)...
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Old 06/25/2013, 01:41 AM   #11 (permalink)
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@Siobhan: That's the nature of a donation. You donate to help people develop but don't get a guarantee for a result. Don't mix donation up with aquisition. If you buy something, you get value for money. Donations help. Aquisition buys.

You can't buy any new WebOS device yet. To donate and then expect to have the right to expect the WebOS Ports people to deliver a WebOS Phone home to you is a bit much, don't you think?
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