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LG smartTV with webOS Open
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Old 12/24/2012, 05:50 PM   #81 (permalink)
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@dignitary,

I like your analysis. I really do. Everyone has been so certain here about LG going through with the project that i didn't even realize how this whole premise was built around a flimsy rumor. This is embarrassing, how everyone got so worked up about it, but i guess it's the same as with the ACL vaporware..

I want to be clear, i don't fault anyone here, since there are many more consumers on this forum than people working in this industry... but it still sucks to see people clutching so hard onto unsubstantiated hope, and forgetting that the most dedication and the most result is coming from this community's Homebrew developers. There's no corporate salvation, no meal ticket.

This really puts Gram's $40,000 gift to webOS Ports into perspective... and shows how dire the situation may actually be..
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Old 12/24/2012, 08:55 PM   #82 (permalink)
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The only thing I can say at this time What is HP waiting for?

3 months and not any sustainable word about webOS Open direction.

What of theirs plans failed:
Plan A: OEMs will take webOS open. No news after 3 months from September.
Is someone out there (OEM) testing the software?
Failed?

Plan B: Lets make an slab webOS smartphone. But when? Not 2013 but 2014? Not sure if it will go with webOS???

Plan C: Unkown.

My final questions are: Is the software working properly on hardwares? Is it speedy already?

How much time will take to the webOS team to make it really functional ? A year more?

Last edited by akitayo; 12/25/2012 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 12/25/2012, 04:05 PM   #83 (permalink)
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The only thing I can say at this time What is HP waiting for?

3 months and not any sustainable word about webOS Open direction.

What of theirs plans failed:
Plan A: OEMs will take webOS open. No news after 3 months from September.
Is someone out there (OEM) testing the software?
Failed?

Plan B: Lets make an slab webOS smartphone. But when? Not 2013 but 2014? Not sure if it will go with webOS???

Plan C: Unkown.

My final questions are: Is the software working properly on hardwares? Is it speedy already?

How much time will take to the webOS team to make it really functional ? A year more?
webOS can and does work perfectly on the hardware as long as there are drivers for it, but when most drivers aren't open source and manufacturers aren't providing them, it becomes more difficult.

As for OEMs, Android is the low-hanging fruit, so no one is really interesting in webOS with its neglected ecosystem. When we'll have ACL to run Android apps, things might change, but it's still...

The "year or more" does sound realistic for Homebrew to turn things around (app store, core apps like the browser, etc), but it will still take a miracle to see a manufacturer pick up webOS and run with it.

Android and FirefoxOS are the official, "certified", "approved" open source projects with strong corporate backing. webOS is the true underdog, because whatever corporate presence we have isn't really pushing forward or throwing billions of dollars at getting webOS out there. I'm thankful for what we already have, that HP is giving webOS a chance to recover and stand on its own, but they aren't putting in even close to as much as the competitors, so we have to pick up where they left off and keep moving forward.
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Old 12/26/2012, 01:45 AM   #84 (permalink)
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When there's Android, brand loyalty goes out the window.. people just look at build quality and price.
Not quite, at least here in Spain: People have raised Samsung to the iconic level iPhone had before: Everyone wants "a Samsung", without even knowing what its good for - the same belief they had for Apple months before. Well, for sure it does a lot of things, and doesn't have that locked garden feeling to it. But that "most wanted" status it has reached is something new.

Back to topic, I don't think anyone is surprised here for the LG deal going nowhere. I'd like to know how much reality was into it, but nonetheless, that changes nothing. Like I said, it lloked completely out of expectations, starting with a technical one: webOS has nothing to offer for a TV device. For god's sake, make a phone! The only realistic route is the Nexus port, and yet it progresses very slowly, as expected.

So, LG affair is over, and it's time to move on... But now with a bigger fear for the question "where?". Not to mention other questions such as "when?" and "how?".

There's a limited amount of time one can keep a brand's value, before is considered an industry joke...
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Old 12/26/2012, 04:33 AM   #85 (permalink)
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@jcmarcos: Same here in The Netherlands. On forums here there are constantly fights between the iPhone crowd and the Samsung crowd.

@Remy X: Well, you can say what you want but if the market wants something different then webOS is the way to go because it IS different. It just needs some love by someone who cares (well, at least someone who's committed, like Palm used to be). You can say a lot about Palm and I do agree that they failed as much as HP but honestly, the developers over at Palm were almost gonna marry webOS lol. The developers did their best with what they had to bring out an outstanding OS, even though there were some bugs up till today. But they were willing to fix it should they had given the oppertunity.
So it needs money and love, that's all it takes to get webOS back on its feet. We have the core apps which are good enough for most casual people and we got some popular stuff like Angry Birds. Now all we need is more 3rd party apps, which HP has the money to invest in. Then get the devices out there and webOS will be at least an interesting 4th player by 2014. But again: that requires money and love by HP.
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Old 12/26/2012, 02:34 PM   #86 (permalink)
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..... But again: that requires money and love by HP.
But it's too bad that HP doesn't have that kind of cash to throw around. They're too busy buying either failed or fraudulent companies and writing down Billions of dollars in losses.

Double -U - Tee - Eff, seriously...
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Old 12/26/2012, 03:22 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Well, you can say what you want but if the market wants something different then webOS is the way to go because it IS different. It just needs some love by someone who cares (well, at least someone who's committed, like Palm used to be). You can say a lot about Palm and I do agree that they failed as much as HP but honestly, the developers over at Palm were almost gonna marry webOS lol. The developers did their best with what they had to bring out an outstanding OS, even though there were some bugs up till today. But they were willing to fix it should they had given the opportunity.
So it needs money and love, that's all it takes to get webOS back on its feet. We have the core apps which are good enough for most casual people and we got some popular stuff like Angry Birds. Now all we need is more 3rd party apps, which HP has the money to invest in. Then get the devices out there and webOS will be at least an interesting 4th player by 2014. But again: that requires money and love by HP.
Well, i care

I have my heap of research and notes (that get slowly transformed into working solutions), RumoredNow and i are still working on the independent app store, dkirker is working on the browser with a modern WebKit, the Internals people are all hard at work on open webOS. The Homebrew community is more than capable of picking up where the Palm developers left off, however that does nothing to cure the boardroom politics at all those big hardware manufacturers.

I will always respect the dedication that Palm developers had, their valiant effort despite the odds, and the Homebrew community working tireslessly to make webOS even better. But we've been out-funded by Google maybe 100 times over. There's big money behind Android, and lots of excitement behind FirefoxOS. This is the people we have to compete against. The undisputed kings of mobile, iOS and Android, then FirefoxOS whose success has been handed to them even before they sold a single handset, AND there are other companies vying for #4, such as Microsoft, RIM/Blackberry, Jolla (Sailfish OS)... it is crowded.

I'm not saying that we can't succeed. I sure hope we can, putting my own time and effort towards it. But no-one is waiting for us with an outstretched hand like they are for Firefox. We have to work even harder to impress anyone. There are other people between us and the "market"... the hardware vendors, the carriers which subsidize phones and their employees that work the floor selling phones to customers. We have to get through all that before the market is ours. It's not enough to just have a superior product on hand...


As for HP investing money in 3rd party apps, they've tried that, but sadly failed at quality control... whoever came for the easy money wasn't interested in a future, just a paycheck and users be damned. So, throwing money at a problem is only half of a solution.

Anyway, this wasn't meant in any way to diminish what you've said. I think we agree that besides a good product in itself, success requires money, smart and focused management, and finally corporate muscle-power.


P.S. I've only been here two months... even if i don't yet have anything to show and brag about, it doesn't mean i'm sitting on the sidelines... it takes time to get a deep knowledge of the OS and that's taken priority over releasing "something"

Last edited by Remy X; 12/26/2012 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 12/26/2012, 03:36 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Of course I have much respect for the homebrew community and I'm trying my best to contribute and help (still rockin' my Touchpad every day for lots of things for 1,5 years now!).

It's just that I was talking about the big picture, the one where webOS becomes viable in the big market again. That's why I mentioned the original Palm developers. It wasn't to make the community look stupid or something, I was just talking from a marketing perspective.

And yes, of course it also takes carriers but I was talking about the beginning... I mean, you have to start with a good product. If you have nothing to show to the carriers then they're not gonna take you seriously. So you have to start somewhere and that was where I was getting at...

But of course I do agree that the community makes the best of it and I still rock my webOS every day, partially due to them, so kudos to all the hard working people, I love this community!

(and yes, I'm also a sideline guy; my first webOS device was my Touchpad that I still rock every day but I've been watching from the sideline since webOS first hit the market)
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Old 12/26/2012, 03:54 PM   #89 (permalink)
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I understand.

At this moment, right now the Homebrew community is all there is, this is where the innovation is at. HP/Gram is just waiting for someone to come up and license the OS, and they are not doing anything that will make everyone go "Wow!"

This kind of passive corporate support doesn't compare well with all of the other players in the industry, that's all.

Homebrew carries all of the weight, and while i can do my part patching the OS (though at this very moment i'm still fixing some abandoned apps), or adding support for other languages, testing interesting new concepts and learning from the Homebrew veterans, it's still only one component of success. We can't count on anything being handed to us on a platter, and the road ahead is indeed very hard.
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Old 12/27/2012, 01:44 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Sidenote: can't wait for you to release patches/revive abandoned apps. Do you need a beta tester perhaps?
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Old 12/27/2012, 02:03 PM   #91 (permalink)
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I still rock my webOS every day,
jcmarcos can probably understand why I'm giggling like an adolescent at this right now.

(Hint: Search 'webos' on Twitter and you'll realize what it's slang for in Spanish.)
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Old 12/28/2012, 01:48 AM   #92 (permalink)
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I still rock my webOS every day
jcmarcos can probably understand why I'm giggling like an adolescent at this right now.
Huh? Actually, I don't...

Quote:
(Hint: Search 'webos' on Twitter and you'll realize what it's slang for in Spanish.)
Aha! That was a good one! Back on topic, I was very happy to read about the hard work going on into our beloved platform!
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Old 01/07/2013, 03:36 AM   #93 (permalink)
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How does the "Smart TV Alliance" relate to Open webOS? Seems like a lot of major players have joined Philips' "Smart TV Alliance" already INCLUDING LG! They're talking HTML5, CSS3, Javascript etc, but that doesn't mean Open webOS of course, though it would be one of the possibilities. It would be silly to re-invent the weel, but then again it's Philips, they're known for that :'(

Panasonic, ABOX42, IBM, Specific Media and TechniSat Expand 'Build Once, Run Everywhere' Smart TV Alliance Ecosystem - MarketWatch
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Old 01/07/2013, 01:37 PM   #94 (permalink)
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So apperantly LG is going with OpenWebOS because Derek just blogged about it. And he's our webOS front page writer guy so if he says so ........
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Old 01/07/2013, 01:52 PM   #95 (permalink)
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That's usually how things work around here, yes.
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Old 01/07/2013, 02:32 PM   #96 (permalink)
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I was looking at news on another Mobile oriented site and LG did not announce any new mobile devices in their CES 2013 opener...

They are touting NFC phone/appliance interactions... Based on their Android line of phones...

Including their "Most Advanced in the Industry" line of Google TVs.
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Old 01/07/2013, 03:13 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Well it was only a unsourced rumour to start with - I think Derek did do a "oh wait.. nothing at CES afterall post" a while back.
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Old 01/08/2013, 06:29 AM   #98 (permalink)
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Well it was only a unsourced rumour to start with - I think Derek did do a "oh wait.. nothing at CES afterall post" a while back.
If that's true then I don't get why he mentioned this 'LG is going with Open WebOS' in his newest post (about room for webOS in the market).
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Old 01/08/2013, 07:00 AM   #99 (permalink)
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Because someone leaked the rumour to him, after which everyone was told to STFU about possible deals. Should a certain Korean company wish to partner with an unannounced spin off from an American company, it's highly unlikely you'd see anything mentioned officially because we're talking months of R&D to get an OS we know and love to do something it's never been asked to do (officially) over a wide ranging set of specs.

Remember, you leak information either to tease fans (look at RIM and BB10), or it's by accident because you wouldn't want your competition a head start in trying to beat your new idea.
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Old 01/08/2013, 08:39 AM   #100 (permalink)
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If that's true then I don't get why he mentioned this 'LG is going with Open WebOS' in his newest post (about room for webOS in the market).
Who knows? All we currently have is an unsourced rumour with absolutely nothing to back it, so the story can change every day of the week. If LG every actually do something then we have something to talk about but otherwise it is is just another "X is going to use WebOS!" story.
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