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Whitman: No new HP smartphone coming in 2013
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Old 10/07/2012, 09:08 PM   #41 (permalink)
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I think it has been pretty clear since HP announced that OpenwebOS would not support legacy hardware that they won't put it on a new product...

Meg let slip that HP needs a smartphone to remain viable in the computing market... Then states no new phone in 2013... They are blatantly ignoring what they know needs to be done.

Their new Win 8 tablet missed having enough screen rez to support all of Win 8's advanced functionality...

Clearly HP is not finished dithering over choices and taking baby steps that leave them well behind the rest of the field.

The company lacks will and a firm hand. The board is too frightened to take risks and launch anything more than a half-hearted effort into mobile. They seem short of enough drive to make headway no matter how they proceed at this point.

If HP can't commit to themselves how will any consumers make the commitment to spend their $$$ on HP?

I look for them to enter into phones with a late entry for Win 8 that is underpowered, undermarketed and out the door just as the rest of the OEMs are prepping Win 9 devices.
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Old 10/07/2012, 09:29 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I think it has been pretty clear since HP announced that OpenwebOS would not support legacy hardware that they won't put it on a new product...

Meg let slip that HP needs a smartphone to remain viable in the computing market... Then states no new phone in 2013... They are blatantly ignoring what they know needs to be done.

Their new Win 8 tablet missed having enough screen rez to support all of Win 8's advanced functionality...

Clearly HP is not finished dithering over choices and taking baby steps that leave them well behind the rest of the field.

The company lacks will and a firm hand. The board is too frightened to take risks and launch anything more than a half-hearted effort into mobile. They seem short of enough drive to make headway no matter how they proceed at this point.

If HP can't commit to themselves how will any consumers make the commitment to spend their $$$ on HP?

I look for them to enter into phones with a late entry for Win 8 that is underpowered, undermarketed and out the door just as the rest of the OEMs are prepping Win 9 devices.
I'm not going to inject politics into this forum but a good analogy is the "what Obama inherited" scenario. Leo Apotheker left a serious mess with operations, shareholders and the PR mess he created. Of these 3, HP has to satisfy the shareholders FIRST. Safe, cautious moves may seem half-assed to you and me, but the shareholders probably have a different view.

Neither Meg Whitman or God Himself can come down and fix this mess in less than 24 months. Personally, I don't rank a company by their CS record. I have enjoyed HP products for a very long time because they give me top value for my dollars. My wife and I have Pre2's each and I'm typing this from my TC4400 tablet. Before HP, I was Palm all the way on mobile devices, in fact I still have a GSM Treo Pro as my back-up.
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Old 10/07/2012, 09:35 PM   #43 (permalink)
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HP doesn't care about the bad taste in WebOS's users months - most users didn't care and the hardcore who did are so small they don't matter.
  • HP shouldn't worry about webOS users - it should focus its' energy on climbing back up that mountain. A strong HP would be beneficial to webOS, despite their [email protected] along the way.
  • "most users didn't care" ...... Yes - most Users are not bothered any more. But if they saw a Pre4 or Nexus with full running software, and even a modest amount of apps, they would try webOS again. In my world of Sales - where there's plenty of ideal webOS clients - 100 apps is plenty. What I really need is having email, web, contacts, and calendar nicely tied together.
  • The hardcore do matter. Some of that expertise is what's driving this reboot.

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Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
I would not expect to see a webOS phone from HP.
-- Rod
  • I'd agree that this could be reality. Certainly HP can't be faulted if their focus is survival. Money matters .... share value matters.
  • HP Analyst Says Company Is Worthless - Business Insider
  • Not hard to find pessimism around here (and there), but saying a webOS phone is not expected, got me thinking how these statements can have a negative effect on webOS. I still believe that success is possible between HP and webOS. Whatever happened in the past, should be a lesson, not some grasp holding back webOS.
  • For people wanting direction from HP, one has to realize this is a corporation trying to right the ship. If Meg can stabilize the company - and it has to be her, simply for management stability reasons - then some attention can be turned to webOS.
  • To do that, HP has to get that mojo back. And juice up the Ego. And hopefully realize why webOS is a good route in their return to being King of the tech world. There should be no other goal. Apple (#1) has iOS ... Google (#2) - Android.
  • Some would say HP's strength was hardware, not software. PC's - and all those accessories - dominated the market. And HP was good at this. Yesterday - I'd agree. Today - not so much. And tomorrow strikes me as more of the Apple-Google versions, where the biggest players .... plays both fields. Even Microsoft is realizing this.

  • As such, HP needs their OWN operating system.
  • I'm of the hope, that if they can ride out this corporate storm, they'll realize webOS is in the palm of their hands. Giving them both fields - where they have control. A scenario befitting any tech giant.

Maybe I'm delusional in suggesting a reconnection between HP and webOS, but if the former #1 company wants to be that again, then they need to think boldly. And not let the past influence intelligent thinking.

I do know one thing. It would be disheartening, if the epitaph for webOS boiled down to an indiscretion.

.

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Old 10/08/2012, 12:45 AM   #44 (permalink)
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I would not expect to see a webOS phone from HP.

-- Rod
"Expect" is the right word. Seeing that HP again (and still) is actively looking for WebOS developers and combining this knowledge with Meg's announcement of the direly needed smartphones, I wonder if they at last found the necessary intelligence to do things like the competitors: build Android (or WP8) smartphones and have WebOS smartphones as a fallbackscenario, like Samsung has Bada/Tizen ...

Just trying to take all the variables into computation and trying to find a scenario that fits the momentary available facts...
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Old 10/08/2012, 12:59 AM   #45 (permalink)
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"Expect" is the right word. Seeing that HP again (and still) is actively looking for WebOS developers and combining this knowledge with Meg's announcement of the direly needed smartphones, I wonder if they at last found the necessary intelligence to do things like the competitors: build Android (or WP8) smartphones and have WebOS smartphones as a fallbackscenario, like Samsung has Bada/Tizen ...

Just trying to take all the variables into computation and trying to find a scenario that fits the momentary available facts...
Aren't you trying to make the facts fit what you would like to see? How do we know that any of the work of those people is intended for phones? Moreover, giving your competitors two more years to build infrastructure, gain share and develop is not much of a backup plan...
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Old 10/08/2012, 03:06 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Okay:
Fact 1 - HP hiring WebOS developers and not only one or two
Fact 2 - Meg told us, that HP needs to offer smartphones
Fact 3 - HP "Bender" was seen running Android.

And all those things happened in very close temporal distance...

Make your own conclusions...

Personally, I don't expect webOS playing a role as main OS (as I stated above). That will rather be Android or WP8. But I can see HP following a "fallback scenario" strategy like some competitors are.
So no, I am not being delusional. I am just trying to make sense of what I see.
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Old 10/08/2012, 07:24 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Time is a problem, but is not the ultimate problem. I believe that kill the SO could be worst.
I lost 2 years waiting the migration from Palm OS to webOS and; in the end, the system came and gave me the resources that I was needing.

I'm waiting nothing more, beyond the "Touchpad II - The Mission" in 2013.

"Why"?

Because was in planning.

After, let's gonna see what can come...


Best Regards...
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Old 10/08/2012, 09:26 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Aren't you trying to make the facts fit what you would like to see? How do we know that any of the work of those people is intended for phones? Moreover, giving your competitors two more years to build infrastructure, gain share and develop is not much of a backup plan...
Wow, I can't believe I am in agreement with CGK, but what he is saying is true. I have been using Palm products from the beginning and have been a big WebOS cheerleader on this forum since the first Pre hit the market. However, ever since (couple days ago) I heard the sad news of no Open WebOS phones for Verizon (because of the protected CDMA drivers) I have been looking into what my next smartphone will be (IPhone or maybe Win8).
Ofcourse, I still have some time because I just picked up a new Pre2 off Ebay. However, I will probably make the switch sometime early next year.

IF, Meg announces more informantion on what these 2014 phones will be, as far as the OS and IF that OS was going to be WebOS, I would be more inclinded to stick around (as many others would be). But like usual, she supplies very little information on HP's direction.. Only to state they will produce a smartphone and then wait awhile to say that smartphone won't be here for another year plus.

If you are a Sprint or Verizon user and don't plan on swtiching carries, why stick with WebOS any longer? Your current phone's OS isn't going to be upgraded. I havent gotten an app update in ages so clearly we are losing support there as well. I run my photography business off my Pre2 and Touchpad. I am booking weddings and dates for 2013. Each time I am inputing entries into the calendar and everytime I create a contact for a new customer, I think to myself I will have to re-enter everything after the switch.

The sad part, if I do make the switch and invest in new hardware (phone & tablet) I probably won't be coming back. Come on Meg, give me hope.

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Old 10/08/2012, 12:10 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Aren't you trying to make the facts fit what you would like to see? How do we know that any of the work of those people is intended for phones? Moreover, giving your competitors two more years to build infrastructure, gain share and develop is not much of a backup plan...
I (and I am sure many others) would be interested in what you think all these positions are for. You seem to enjoy asking the questions and putting down others ideas, please share with all of us yours....

I will share with you mine, I don't expect the jobs to be specific to phones, but I also don't expect them to be for developing for a tablet either. At this point phones would technically be more likely than tablets if only because HP has already announced a Win 8 tablet.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on what these positions will be focused on.
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Old 10/08/2012, 12:16 PM   #50 (permalink)
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My understanding from conversations I have had is that the idea will be to repostion webos as a ideal system for enterprise uses such as embedded kiosks (which can make use of relatively cheap off the shelf hardware) - that is what people will be working on.
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Old 10/08/2012, 12:40 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Putz... CGK continue to say that the webOS is dead, but continue here trying to "destroy our hope".

First, nor you, nor me and no one knows about the HP plans. Second, no smartphone until 2014, and this is a fact. Third, there is tablet promissed to 2013.

Fourth: please, if you have real and solid information, gonna be great. If not; please, don't continue coming here "planting" things like "repostion webos as a ideal system for enterprise uses such as embedded kiosks" as if was true.

Same saying "my understanding from conversations" gives the idea that many members was agreeing with this idea, what is not true.

Thanks in advance,


Best Regards...
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Old 10/08/2012, 12:55 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Not to defend anyone here but the first video of Open webOS from HP they did mention Hotel Kiosk...

Open webOS Demo on HP TouchSmart PC - YouTube

At About 1:17-18...
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Old 10/08/2012, 01:04 PM   #53 (permalink)
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my understanding is that Open WeboOS isn't targeted to any specific platform. By it's nature, as touch oriented OS, it could be used on phones, tablets, kiosks or any present or future touch controlled devices, but not limited to them.
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Old 10/08/2012, 02:09 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rnp View Post
Putz... CGK continue to say that the webOS is dead, but continue here trying to "destroy our hope".

First, nor you, nor me and no one knows about the HP plans. Second, no smartphone until 2014, and this is a fact. Third, there is tablet promissed to 2013.

Fourth: please, if you have real and solid information, gonna be great. If not; please, don't continue coming here "planting" things like "repostion webos as a ideal system for enterprise uses such as embedded kiosks" as if was true.

Same saying "my understanding from conversations" gives the idea that many members was agreeing with this idea, what is not true.

Thanks in advance,


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I never said the conversations were here or indeed forum conversations of any type.
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Old 10/08/2012, 02:44 PM   #55 (permalink)
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my understanding is that Open WeboOS isn't targeted to any specific platform. By it's nature, as touch oriented OS, it could be used on phones, tablets, kiosks or any present or future touch controlled devices, but not limited to them.
Exact. This is the point: "can", but not "only".


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Old 10/08/2012, 04:37 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Webos has never been profitable. Not for Palm. Not for HP. The idea that it can be profitable is pure speculation. But HP doesn't need a tiny profit. They need products that will stem the decline/stagnation in there PC and Printing business and those are large. Not only has it not been profitable it's surely not, in it's present level of interest, gonna stem that huge tide. Earnings this last quarter fell $158 Million from last quarter. That's a lot to make up on top of the estimated $330 million per quarter rising to $500 million dollars that Cathey Lesjak CFO said they'd have to expend per quarter just to keep launching devices. that was back when they announced the ending of webos hardware. Add to that the cost of building out an ecosystem. And this is all in an environment where outside of webosnation there is not demand for webos phones.

Let's be honest. They were already in the mobile space with webos and people didn't buy them in any level enough to sustain the program. And problems were not just a simple fix of changing hardware......
.........

people have to want to buy the product your selling and there's no evidence of people outside of the small webos community that people want it. And to get it even competitive i think is a cost that's not feasible for most.
............

i just don't think it's guaranteed to be a profit.
This idea commonly kicked around that webOS has failed from the beginning is simply wrong. It's launch indeed showed that there was tremendous opportunity and acceptance. See the following link for a discussion of 1st Q results after launch of Pre - Palm F1Q10 (Qtr End 8/29/09) Earnings Call Transcript - Seeking Alpha

Penetration in all markets, including enterprise, exceeded expectations. If you do a simple google search you will find why webOS failed - almost immediately the hardware was being returned at a rate of 40% or more due to defects. It is incorrect to say webOS failed - PRE failed, and took webOS down with it. webOS was, on it's own, doing very well and well regarded. We all know the cash crunch that inhibited Palm and its hardware, but that is different than saying this is a failed software.

You and others contend that HP can't afford to develop webOS. I say they can't afford not to.

HP has a choice - die a slow death or allocate the resources to be truly relevant in mobile. HP earnings are taking a huge hit, but they can still go out and drop $10B on overvalued companies like Leo did. Their revenues are still huge; few business generate the cash OR earnings of HP. For the fiscal year ending last Nov they had EBITDA of over $14B! A $500M price tag for a product launch is something that is certainly manageable and even prudent if they have a strategy to move into Mobile.

Of course there is no guarantee of webOS turning a profit, much less a significant profit. But there is little reason to think that HP can ever bust into the market with either Android or Win. There are simply too many competitors and quicker movers.

Why does MS keep trying to bust the mobile market? How much money have they lost over the years with little result? They would probably say the money was not wasted, it was necessary for the future of MS, and now they may finally be seeing results. They were in a marathon and not a sprint (got that Leo?), and understood the absolute necessity of staying in the race - their future depends on it. The same is true for HP, except their words not withstanding, they were in a short sprint and then dropped out of that as well.

webOS executed properly, committed to like MS is committed to it's mobile, was the best choice for their future. Veer and Touchpad (I have both) can hardly be considered a "try" by HP. Given their decisions, I'd say there is a reasonable chance HP may not be around in 10 years.
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Old 10/08/2012, 05:11 PM   #57 (permalink)
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I run my photography business off my Pre2 and Touchpad. I am booking weddings and dates for 2013. Each time I am inputing entries into the calendar and everytime I create a contact for a new customer, I think to myself I will have to re-enter everything after the switch.

The sad part, if I do make the switch and invest in new hardware (phone & tablet) I probably won't be coming back. Come on Meg, give me hope.

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If you're entering these into Google or Exchange, couldn't they be imported into your new device?
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Old 10/08/2012, 05:21 PM   #58 (permalink)
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.

Why does MS keep trying to bust the mobile market? How much money have they lost over the years with little result? They would probably say the money was not wasted, it was necessary for the future of MS, and now they may finally be seeing results. They were in a marathon and not a sprint (got that Leo?), and understood the absolute necessity of staying in the race - their future depends on it. The same is true for HP, except their words not withstanding, they were in a short sprint and then dropped out of that as well.

.
I agree and well written. If Leo was in charge of Microsoft he would have killed thier mobile plans long ago. Microsoft no doubt sees the future of computing and understands it needs to break into into the landscape. HP needs to follow those same insights.


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Old 10/08/2012, 06:35 PM   #59 (permalink)
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As much as I'm doubtful that HP will ever produce a webOS smartphone again, I still do believe it's their best option. Unlikely, but still their best bet. Why?

Well, it's quite difficult to enter into a competitor's market, i.e. Android, WPx when it's already been set in place. Unless, of course, they bring something truly phenomenal to the table. Honestly, I don't think HP would bring a cutting-edge Android or WP8 device to the market. They're definitely not going to beat Samsung on the Android end, nor Nokia or HTC on the WP8 end. Simply put...


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As such, HP needs their OWN operating system. [/CENTER]
There are plenty of opportunities to them to get back into the game. Remember this? HP already has their computers in plenty of hospitals across the nation and abroad. Most of those hospitals have MRI rooms, so a modified TouchPad could easily get the inside job done, as brought out in the article. Have some webOS software engineers work with the hospitals to provide them with the software they need. If they could sell a dozen or two to their hospital partners, then they could inject a few dozen or hundred thousand webOS tablets into the market again (Yes, I know this is about smartphones. I'm getting there). With webOS back out there, and with some of their partners with a less sour taste in their mouths, they can bring webOS phones once again. Of course, carriers would need to approve such phones, but that's a different discussion.

All of those American Airline stewardesses with Notes? Give 'em TouchPad Go's. Work on getting webOS into China. There's definitely a large market of consumers there. Of course, HP would have to improve webOS to today's standards for OSes in more ways than one. Indeed, I feel that webOS still has the best UI and multitasking, but it's fallen behind its competitors since its been off the market for a while.

Again, I'm not saying that HP will make webOS phones ever again, nor am I saying that these are all feasible options, but I do believe that if HP wants to come back into the mobile market and not get shut out again, it'd have to bring back a new and improved webOS with great hardware, not Android or WP.
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Old 10/09/2012, 12:28 AM   #60 (permalink)
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But to say that profitability could be speculation, I don't agree with that. I think that WebOS had the ability to be as much profitable like Android
It is necessarily speculative as it (profitability) never happened. To say it "could" have been profitable is by definition to make a speculation on it's future profitability. Having the abililty to do something does not equate to a certainty that it will happen. And if it is not certain your speculating.


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I think that the interested was there for the WebOS products(beyond from this small community), just that HP mismanagement caused it to failed miserably. If you remember the HP Firesale, there was huge interest from the public that wanted to experience a tablet and it kinds of tells you that if things are not properly there could be profits to be made(that doesn't mean selling a tablet at $99 dollars). And let's not forget, the huge market that HP missed with the TouchPad Go 7' inch mini tablet that could been sale profits for HP than went to Amazon Fire Kindle tablet instead. At the time, there were barely tablets with 7' inches on the market and if the company HP was a smarter they could have released it with a price reasonable enough that could get consumer's interest into buying it. While we can't say that WebOS could had spelled big money for HP, it does confirms that IF HP was willing to bend over their stupid corporate rules....WebOS could have been a real winner for both consumers and HP themselves as well
You confuse interest in webos with what people really had was interest in a tablet of any kind with $400 hardware sold for $99. You think there wouldn't be lines if they sold a Galaxy Tab for $99 bucks? Of course there would. And amazon's Kindle market is larger an ebook reader market. That's what amazon is selling. Not just a tablet. there are plenty of 7 inch tablets that nobody buys. i don't know what the blackberry tablet is but it's smaller then the ipad and it's not selling like hotcakes either. The fact that there may be a market does not mean webos was adequate at filling it. Look at all the other 7 inch tablets out there that are not huge successes too. webos easily could have been just the same. I think you simply seeing the world through typical precentral forum tinted lenses.
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