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Whitman: No new HP smartphone coming in 2013
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Old 10/05/2012, 07:18 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I'd rather see HP take the time to engineer some real first class hardware when they (re)enter the market, as opposed to half assing it again, rushing to market next year with hardware already a year out of date, just to meet some arbitrary short term expectations. Where the hell are those memristors? Load that tech up in a phone. Start taking advantage of those engineering breakthroughs, for christ sakes.

The hardware should be open and be software platform agnostic. Lock the bootloader on the retail Windows Phone 8 version, and leave it open on the Android or webOS versions. If HP itself won't sell it with webOS, at least leave the hardware open so gram can take it themselves and run with it. The hardware will sell if it's open, extremely capable, and it empowers user to run the software of their choice.

The problem just seems to be in making good effing hardware in the first place. I'm not sure if HP engineers are up it, or more likely, that HP management is up to allowing their engineers actually innovate. HP just seems like a bureaucratic nightmare as opposed to an engineering driven company, as it might have been.

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Old 10/05/2012, 07:33 PM   #22 (permalink)
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The Pre3 was a nice phone, never had a chance in the market... But the big issue was they announced it in 2010 to release in 2011, agree they should have released it in 2010 not 2011, but the software was not ready...

Sorry it was the 2011 think big event in 2011 not 2010... So they should have released right after the event, or they should not have announced it...

Last edited by John Steffes; 10/05/2012 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 10/05/2012, 08:09 PM   #23 (permalink)
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The Pre3 was a nice phone, never had a chance in the market... But the big issue was they announced it in 2010 to release in 2011, agree they should have released it in 2010 not 2011, but the software was not ready...
It was ready enough to launch the Veer before the TP dropped....
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Old 10/05/2012, 08:58 PM   #24 (permalink)
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It was ready enough to launch the Veer before the TP dropped....
The Veer was released with webOS 2.1.1/2.1.2, which was not MAP (SMS Sharing), Skype, Enyo, etc...

Once webOS 2.2.0 was released 8/22/2011, it was only released for Pre3...

The showed Veer, Pre3, and Touchpad, in the 2011 think beyond event... They should have waited to show it, or released it right away, never seen any company hey here is the new product, here is how it works, but you can't have it... Just my opinion...
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Old 10/05/2012, 08:58 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Speaking of saviours - people are still talking on the front-page about Phoenix International - Did they ever turn out to be anything serious or just more jokers?
They have a credible (albeit extremely difficult to execute successfully) plan.

Don't expect to see anything within 12 months at a minimum is my guess based on no inside information.

-- Rod
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Old 10/05/2012, 09:02 PM   #26 (permalink)
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My understanding (and it could be incorrect) is that OUYA involves experienced professionals, PIC from what we can gather is literally "some dudes" - I'm not convinced one is like the other.
PIC's plan (as outlined publicly in the discussion we had in the IRC channel yesterday) is to license a ready-to-sell design from an OEM and then port Open WebOS to that device.

Very different plan and skill set required compared to OUYA, but no less difficult to execute.

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Old 10/05/2012, 09:04 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I'm just wandering if HP is letting the community do all the hard work . Working out the bugs and will at some point release a phone able to run webOS again. I've seen stranger things happen lol
I would not expect to see a webOS phone from HP.

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Old 10/05/2012, 09:20 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Very true words indeed, but don't forget that HP could still make profits(not big but small) only if they willing to try the right way with the WebOS operating system. I don't want to pay a trip to a street down memory lane, occasionally we might have to do that here when talking about the HP many stupid/silly things they continue to do to this very day. HP looks to seek profits, but how is their plans moving on forward to accomplish this ?

Let's take a look at TouchPad release, it was catastrophic, horrible event ever performed by a company that was used to be known for its excellence in service and a computer devices like HP. TouchPad was overpriced, WebOS was filled with bugs that I'm sure it effected its sales, no music or video store, developers were even given enough time with the SDK nor HP created interest with developers. Then, you got a device like the Veer which was poorly executed and too small for a market that got used to seeing many phones with a display that measured 4 to 5 inches. And forget the Palm Pre 3 which was never officially released, so HP can not compare or say that getting into the smartphones market was risky....because the potential of that device sadly enough can't be said.

So obviously, if these things are not even corrected properly before releasing any kind product whether it is a tablet or a phone, of course no profits could be made under those circumstances. However, if HP could done things properly I'm sure that to could have slowly seen profits there.
Webos has never been profitable. Not for Palm. Not for HP. The idea that it can be profitable is pure speculation. But HP doesn't need a tiny profit. They need products that will stem the decline/stagnation in there PC and Printing business and those are large. Not only has it not been profitable it's surely not, in it's present level of interest, gonna stem that huge tide. Earnings this last quarter fell $158 Million from last quarter. That's a lot to make up on top of the estimated $330 million per quarter rising to $500 million dollars that Cathey Lesjak CFO said they'd have to expend per quarter just to keep launching devices. that was back when they announced the ending of webos hardware. Add to that the cost of building out an ecosystem. And this is all in an environment where outside of webosnation there is not demand for webos phones.

Let's be honest. They were already in the mobile space with webos and people didn't buy them in any level enough to sustain the program. And problems were not just a simple fix of changing hardware. There were software problems as well not easily fixed. All that stuff you mentioned had to be fixed. There was an article about why webos had problems illustrating supply chain problems because Apple and Samsung get all the displays, problems getting html programmers of adequate caliber, apparently a problem google had with their poor html based apps too. All that stuff the ecosystem etc costs billions, and there's zero guarantee it will end up profitable. Sony even owns media, music, movies, makes phones and computers and they are still doing crappy in the mobile space. HP would have to make licensing deals for all those properties to sell out of a store.

People can say touchpad was overpriced but to be feasible it has to be priced more then it costs to build. And components cost what they cost. It's easy for people not paying for components and not accountable for the losses to shareholders to say, take a loss, sell it for $200 but that's silly and not realistic.

people have to want to buy the product your selling and there's no evidence of people outside of the small webos community that people want it. And to get it even competitive i think is a cost that's not feasible for most.

And even if you fix all the stuff that's you highlight as a problem there's not telling if it will be profitable. I don't know windows phone 7 more then using it in a store but it didn't seem full of bugs. It's not that Nokia phone that seem ok hardware. But windows phone 7 isn't doing exactly gangbusters. But the difference is Microsoft has, windows generating profits, and a giant vault of cash. HP isn't in that situation and doesn't have the cash to fund years of a stagnant OS.

i just don't think it's guaranteed to be a profit. Not that it couldn't have had they done it right but it's HP. They've been disfunctional for a long time. I'm wasn't betting on them any more then i'd bet on the Buffalo Bills to win the Super Bowl.
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Old 10/05/2012, 11:21 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SnotBoogie View Post
Webos has never been profitable. Not for Palm. Not for HP. The idea that it can be profitable is pure speculation.
Well, I certainly agree with your opinion that WebOS wasn't profitable to begin with even under Palm's own hands, and let alone HP.... I could mainly blame Palm problems with some of their mistakes they made along the way with their operating system of WebOS and add the wrong partnerships deals they did with the likes of Verizon and such.

But to say that profitability could be speculation, I don't agree with that. I think that WebOS had the ability to be as much profitable like Android could be for Google, just that mainly speculating there wasn't much energy put into this project(from the company HP) that eventually caused this thing that we're seeing on WebOS.

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Originally Posted by SnotBoogie View Post
Let's be honest. They were already in the mobile space with webos and people didn't buy them in any level enough to sustain the program. And problems were not just a simple fix of changing hardware. There were software problems as well not easily fixed. All that stuff you mentioned had to be fixed. people have to want to buy the product your selling and there's no evidence of people outside of the small webos community that people want it. And to get it even competitive i think is a cost that's not feasible for most. And even if you fix all the stuff that's you highlight as a problem there's not telling if it will be profitable.

i just don't think it's guaranteed to be a profit. Not that it couldn't have had they done it right but it's HP. They've been dysfunctional for a long time. I'm wasn't betting on them any more then i'd bet on the Buffalo Bills to win the Super Bowl.
I think that the interested was there for the WebOS products(beyond from this small community), just that HP mismanagement caused it to failed miserably. If you remember the HP Firesale, there was huge interest from the public that wanted to experience a tablet and it kinds of tells you that if things are not properly there could be profits to be made(that doesn't mean selling a tablet at $99 dollars). And let's not forget, the huge market that HP missed with the TouchPad Go 7' inch mini tablet that could been sale profits for HP than went to Amazon Fire Kindle tablet instead. At the time, there were barely tablets with 7' inches on the market and if the company HP was a smarter they could have released it with a price reasonable enough that could get consumer's interest into buying it. While we can't say that WebOS could had spelled big money for HP, it does confirms that IF HP was willing to bend over their stupid corporate rules....WebOS could have been a real winner for both consumers and HP themselves as well
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Old 10/06/2012, 05:22 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I still remember dell peddling their MP3 player and MusicMatch Jukebox back in 2004. I wonder what became of that.
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Old 10/06/2012, 09:10 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I'd rather see HP take the time to engineer some real first class hardware when they (re)enter the market.
whoever said they would make another phone? i think you guys might be wishful thinking here.
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Old 10/06/2012, 11:45 AM   #32 (permalink)
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whoever said they would make another phone? i think you guys might be wishful thinking here.
If you took the time to read both the article and the thread....then you would have answered your own question. Here's the quote from the very top of the page of the article:

Quote:
HP will not dish out a new smartphone in the coming year, said chief executive Meg Whitman yesterday at an analyst's day, but the firm will eventually offer a device to avoid falling behind the curve.
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Old 10/06/2012, 04:14 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Is it even likely she will have a job come 2014? Let's wait to see what the next guy/gal says...
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Old 10/06/2012, 08:26 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Is it even likely she will have a job come 2014? Let's wait to see what the next guy/gal says...
Who am I to speculate who's going to be running HP a year from now? I have an app for that! Coin Flip! Heads says Meg Whitman will still be running HP, tails says somebody else will

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drumroll while I switch out of my browser to Coin flip......
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Heads it is!
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Old 10/06/2012, 08:49 PM   #35 (permalink)
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The Pre3 was a nice phone, never had a chance in the market... But the big issue was they announced it in 2010 to release in 2011, agree they should have released it in 2010 not 2011, but the software was not ready...

Sorry it was the 2011 think big event in 2011 not 2010... So they should have released right after the event, or they should not have announced it...
Agreed on that note. In 2010 its 512MB was okay but with even 2.2.4 running on my Pre 3 it occasionally wants to make me commit suicide, and no, UberKernel doesn't help and if anything makes it worse.
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Old 10/06/2012, 09:37 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I know there's not much love for HP on these boards, and understandably so, but there's no question that HP has produced some excellent smartphones. I wouldn't consider the Pre line as an HP endeavor since the Veer and Pre3 were re-hashed Palm designs. I'm referring to the iPaqs of Windows Mobile vintage. For the time and the OS they were made to run on, they were more feature-rich than anything else on the market. Having said that, I truly believe that HP will jump back in the game with Windows Phone 8 to complement the Windows 8 tablets. They're not going to do squat until the bad taste they left in webOS user's mouths subsides.
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Old 10/07/2012, 09:28 AM   #37 (permalink)
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HP doesn't care about the bad taste in WebOS's users months - most users didn't care and the hardcore who did are so small they don't matter.
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Old 10/07/2012, 03:05 PM   #38 (permalink)
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HP learned hard lesson with webOS and if they ever release phone it will be with OS for which they do not have to provide ecosystem, apps and services. That is the most important reason why no OEM wanted to buy webOS - not because it sucks beyond repair, but because it is hard to build 5th ecosystem. Samsung, LG, HTC and others are aware how difficult task it is so they skipped.
And really, I don't see big difference between porting webOS to some existing device and buying native open webOS device. Most important thing is to make open webOS worth porting and maybe some OEM would see some value in it and release native open webOS headset.
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Old 10/07/2012, 03:56 PM   #39 (permalink)
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HP doesn't care about the bad taste in WebOS's users months - most users didn't care and the hardcore who did are so small they don't matter.
Wow! Isn't that post a ray of sunshine. Somebody **** in your tea & crumpets?
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Old 10/07/2012, 05:20 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Wow! Isn't that post a ray of sunshine. Somebody **** in your tea & crumpets?
but true none the less
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