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Old 09/22/2012, 05:56 AM   #1 (permalink)
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I know there might be some webkit/gecko issues but i wonder if it's not the case for the open webOS developers' world to say goodbye to HP's uncertain support and join Mozilla's Boot to Gecko project now known as Firefox OS.
I think this might be "the place to be" for the coming future for javascript and html5 lovers.

Support Mozilla has been receiving from Telefónica Digital its impressing and it's speeding up the whole project to appear on real devices in about six months.

Vivo, Movistar and O2 (all Telefónica brands) and soon Sprint, maybe T-Mobile, Etisalat, Smart, Telenor and Telecom Italia are going to push this platform into their own markets and we're are talking of hundred millions consumers.

This is something, compared to the struggling open webOS saga, coming real !

I think Telefónica 've just got quicker than others that the future of communication it's changing and the web is the key. They don't want to wait and see when Android, iPhone and WP users will start more and more to communicate and share through the web increasingly reducing telco's revenues. So, through the developers of Mozilla and their own of the Telefónica Digital hub, are building their own future into the mobile space.

Nevertheless they are going to rise up huge percent of market share investing into markets where iPhone, Lumia and Nexus devices are simply too expensive. And that's just the begin.

I'm sorry to say i think that the open webOS project doesn't come even closer to these possibilities.
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Old 09/22/2012, 06:42 AM   #2 (permalink)
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what can the firefox OS do that others cant do already? why would people flock to it? if people want flashy looking stuff that is closed and non technical they get apples products, if people mostly want freebie stuffed full of malware/adverts, they get android, any other os is likely down to the more technical minded wanting whatever device they have that does whatever it is they want and how they want.

then we have the new breed, which atm i cant quite grasp, facebook phones, firefox phones, ill admit they make a good standalone app/program for themselves in their targeted market (social net and browser etc).

But im not quite grasping how relying on a famous branded program or app would make people rush to an actual device with say facebook or firefox loaded on it, when the rest of the device is pretty much unknown and those 2 companies for example have many existing devices of various manufacturers already loaded with their flagship products.

its not that open webOS is uncertain, its the reality that anything not apple/android is uncertain, even microsoft is in for a hard time.

its also nice that various companies/carriers are interested in selling the devices but even if they do sell them, whats the selling point? a lot of people are heavily invested in either apple/android due to the apps they have previously bought, and a lot simply cant afford to re-buy what they already have, when they can just upgrade to the next best apple/android phone and all their old apps are handily waiting for them.
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Old 09/22/2012, 08:58 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Open webOS is not going to be HP's uncertain supported project... is going to be a "community" success, from what I've seen from this incredible community.

webOS developers know the options on the platforms' market ... and they also know the reasons why they are still here. No need to "try to engage them" on something else.
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Old 09/22/2012, 09:47 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Open webOS is not going to be HP's uncertain supported project... is going to be a "community" success, from what I've seen from this incredible community.

webOS developers know the options on the platforms' market ... and they also know the reasons why they are still here. No need to "try to engage them" on something else.
I totally agree. Just look at Luna CE to see what the webOS community has done in a short time with open source components of the OS. Once the full code is out for the open embedded version, I think we will see more great things from this community.

My question is "What does Firefox OS offer that is better than webOS?". The Firefox name and a wide variety of plugins? What about apps? What does Firefox OS offer there?

Why not have the developers of Firefox OS team with the open webOS community? WebOS needs some diversity in the browser area. It doesn't need any help in the UI area (it already has the best mobile UI around). The folks working on Firefox for mobile should make an Enyo version or look at the code for Isis and help out there.


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Old 09/22/2012, 10:42 AM   #5 (permalink)
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as Adora told me , Firefox OS is similar to webOS but could never compare to webOS . And nothing will or can be imo
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Old 09/22/2012, 08:47 PM   #6 (permalink)
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My question is "What does Firefox OS offer that is better than webOS?". The Firefox name and a wide variety of plugins? What about apps? What does Firefox OS offer there?
Firefox offers a proprietary-esqe MPL license which would allow any handset maker to make a proprietary derivative branch and keep the source code private.
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Old 09/22/2012, 09:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Firefox offers a proprietary-esqe MPL license which would allow any handset maker to make a proprietary derivative branch and keep the source code private.
So you are considering the ability to "hide the source" a plus?


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Old 09/22/2012, 11:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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So you are considering the ability to "hide the source" a plus?
It is a lot BETTER than the current open webos situation where NOBODY knows what's going on.

There are ZERO non-HP people in charge of the open webos organization. Who owns the open webos trademark? Nobody knows.

I agree with Linus --- it is nobody's business on what license you put your open source project on.
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Old 09/23/2012, 02:06 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Firefox offers a proprietary-esqe MPL license which would allow any handset maker to make a proprietary derivative branch and keep the source code private.
Quote:
Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
So you are considering the ability to "hide the source" a plus?


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Originally Posted by samab View Post
It is a lot BETTER than the current open webos situation where NOBODY knows what's going on.

There are ZERO non-HP people in charge of the open webos organization. Who owns the open webos trademark? Nobody knows.

I agree with Linus --- it is nobody's business on what license you put your open source project on.
those are mostly reasons devs or manufacturers may take up the OS, whats in it for joe average the phone/tablet user, why would he adopt the firefox OS, if he already has a plethora of apps bought for the other ecosystems, there has to be something the user wants or likes or can see is a plus feature over a rival product?
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Old 09/23/2012, 08:01 AM   #10 (permalink)
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what can the firefox OS do that others cant do already? why would people flock to it? if people want flashy looking stuff that is closed and non technical they get apples products, if people mostly want freebie stuffed full of malware/adverts, they get android, any other os is likely down to the more technical minded wanting whatever device they have that does whatever it is they want and how they want.

then we have the new breed, which atm i cant quite grasp, facebook phones, firefox phones, ill admit they make a good standalone app/program for themselves in their targeted market (social net and browser etc).

But im not quite grasping how relying on a famous branded program or app would make people rush to an actual device with say facebook or firefox loaded on it, when the rest of the device is pretty much unknown and those 2 companies for example have many existing devices of various manufacturers already loaded with their flagship products.

its not that open webOS is uncertain, its the reality that anything not apple/android is uncertain, even microsoft is in for a hard time.

its also nice that various companies/carriers are interested in selling the devices but even if they do sell them, whats the selling point? a lot of people are heavily invested in either apple/android due to the apps they have previously bought, and a lot simply cant afford to re-buy what they already have, when they can just upgrade to the next best apple/android phone and all their old apps are handily waiting for them.
Sorry, but I just gotta say, these statements, as a whole, are pretty lame. With this outlook, it is obvious why the webOS community will languish in the margins, if it survives. I say this seriously.

Nothing matters unless you actually have a device that people can buy. You can talk and talk all day about how this platform is for this user, and that platform is for that user, but the fact is that the webOS platform is not for anybody anytime soon. If you don't think the carrier support is significant (especially in North America), then you are misinformed. One reason (just one of many) why webOS will fail is the silly notion held by much of the community about what it is or isn't compared to other platforms. Get off it, and concentrate on making the platform better AND getting it to people. I say all this earnestly.

I still follow webOS development, and like the platform. I am no developer, but would like to see webOS as an option in the market, and would be willing to contribute to that cause. However, the talk to action ratio is very high in the webOS community. That is a huge problem.
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Old 09/23/2012, 08:09 AM   #11 (permalink)
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you still cant force people to buy a phone or tablet even if the carriers/shops are filled with firefox or facebook phones, why would they buy them, my comment above had nothing to do with webOS in mind, it was and is still about why would anyone buy something...... anything other than android or ios when thats all they know or seemingly care about, esp when a fair few have bought into the app ecosystem of both of those.

firefox on pc = yeah i like
facebook on pc/tablet/etc = yeah its ok

phones based off each tho? why would i buy one, why would you buy one, it sounds like a fair question tbh?
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Old 09/23/2012, 10:47 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Going on OP message, if you're a developer, you really should be covering all platforms. By covering all the bases you reduce average dev cost which enables more profit.

On a side note, if you're a fickle developer and drop platforms without letting users know (or even worse, removing the app completely) then users WILL remember and your repeat business goes down like bricks in mid air tend to.

The advantage of FirefoxOS is that it'll allow cheap smartphones, cheaper than current devices without as many compromises as the cheap droid phones of old.
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Old 09/23/2012, 10:58 AM   #13 (permalink)
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those are mostly reasons devs or manufacturers may take up the OS, whats in it for joe average the phone/tablet user, why would he adopt the firefox OS, if he already has a plethora of apps bought for the other ecosystems, there has to be something the user wants or likes or can see is a plus feature over a rival product?
I never stated whether the idea makes business sense or not --- I just stated that it has at least the option of keeping your source code proprietary (which open webos doesn't at this point).
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Old 09/23/2012, 11:13 AM   #14 (permalink)
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It is a lot BETTER than the current open webos situation where NOBODY knows what's going on.

There are ZERO non-HP people in charge of the open webos organization. Who owns the open webos trademark? Nobody knows.

I agree with Linus --- it is nobody's business on what license you put your open source project on.

Ok, you did not answer any of my questions at all. Open webOS is still in its infancy and you seem to want to drown the baby in its bath water. Let's wait until the end of this month for more clarification. So far HP has hit all of its target dates. It's funny that you bring up Linus and someone else brings up install base. How many desktop computers come pre-installed with Linux? Not many, yet Linux thrives on the desktop. Also, how many phones come pre-installed with CM7 or CM9? None, yet those projects survive.

So far with the little bit of code that HP has released, we have an improved Luna System Manager with a bunch of cool new features (Luna CE), we have a sparse but promising desktop version, and we have a minimalistic version that is already up and running on several ARM related devices (open embedded). Once all of the pieces are released, we will have a healthy environment to grow from.

I can't stand HP or what they did to webOS. I hope the choke on the laughable Windows fiasco they got themselves back into (enjoy low margin hell again while Apple rules with their own platform, software, and services. Suckers!). However, the best thing they did for the webOS community is open source webOS. I wish you folks luck with Firefox OS. Hope it works out well for you.

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Old 09/23/2012, 11:52 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Ok, you did not answer any of my questions at all. Open webOS is still in its infancy and you seem to want to drown the baby in its bath water.
Your arguments have nothing to do with anything.

When you buy a house, you want to make sure that you are getting a good title on it --- you are not paying money to some squatter who have no rights to sell it. That's the first thing you should look for.

Open webos has no clear title. Handset makers don't have a say in the governance of the webos organization (they are all HP employees). Who would want to touch that in the first place? At the very least in the dust up between Google and Acer about the forced dropping of Aliyun OS --- Acer has a seat on the OHA.

Android gives you good title (well not including the Microsoft lawsuits).
OHA gives you a seat at the table.
Firefox gives you good title and a proprietary-esqe license.
Microsoft gives you good title and full proprietary license.
Even RIM --- when they said that BB10 is license-able --- it means that they own the rights to their codes.

Business models come first and there are so many unknowns on the open webos --- including who owns the trademark and would handset makers even have a seat on the board of open webos.
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Old 09/23/2012, 12:09 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Your arguments have nothing to do with anything.

When you buy a house, you want to make sure that you are getting a good title on it --- you are not paying money to some squatter who have no rights to sell it. That's the first thing you should look for.

Open webos has no clear title. Handset makers don't have a say in the governance of the webos organization (they are all HP employees). Who would want to touch that in the first place? At the very least in the dust up between Google and Acer about the forced dropping of Aliyun OS --- Acer has a seat on the OHA.

Android gives you good title (well not including the Microsoft lawsuits).
OHA gives you a seat at the table.
Firefox gives you good title and a proprietary-esqe license.
Microsoft gives you good title and full proprietary license.
Even RIM --- when they said that BB10 is license-able --- it means that they own the rights to their codes.

Business models come first and there are so many unknowns on the open webos --- including who owns the trademark and would handset makers even have a seat on the board of open webos.
I've bought two houses so far, so your analogy is not lost on me. I do wonder whether or not you are jumping the gun. HP hasn't even released all of the bits a pieces to open webOS yet. I believe there was some talk on a governance model but I don't think they are there yet. Can't govern something that doesn't fully exist. I also believe that HP was in talks with the Homebrew community over this and even flew Rod in for a face to face, so I think there is some level of transparency on this. Right now I say give them time.


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Old 09/23/2012, 12:23 PM   #17 (permalink)
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any argument or discussion predicting if open webOS will succeed or not has little to no bearing on the success of the Firefox OS/Boot to Gecko project.

im still asking why anyone would want to drop their iphones or android devices for a firefox device?

I'll give that new users without a current phone or ones with expiring contracts may give it a go but even then im guessing that will be only if they dont have a previous app investment elsewhere, and this isnt just a problem for firefox that they have to hurdle perfectly but anyone thats not google or apple.
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Old 09/23/2012, 01:32 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I totally agree. Just look at Luna CE to see what the webOS community has done in a short time with open source components of the OS. Once the full code is out for the open embedded version, I think we will see more great things from this community.

My question is "What does Firefox OS offer that is better than webOS?". The Firefox name and a wide variety of plugins? What about apps? What does Firefox OS offer there?

Why not have the developers of Firefox OS team with the open webOS community? WebOS needs some diversity in the browser area. It doesn't need any help in the UI area (it already has the best mobile UI around). The folks working on Firefox for mobile should make an Enyo version or look at the code for Isis and help out there.


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Firefox offers to developers and users, other way than the actual webOS, two OEMs, ZTE and TLC, and quite some big partners from the carriers side.
Firefox OS will come in 2013 on devices in Brazil. webOS, i guess, unfortunately, not.
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Old 09/23/2012, 01:35 PM   #19 (permalink)
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any argument or discussion predicting if open webOS will succeed or not has little to no bearing on the success of the Firefox OS/Boot to Gecko project.

im still asking why anyone would want to drop their iphones or android devices for a firefox device?

I'll give that new users without a current phone or ones with expiring contracts may give it a go but even then im guessing that will be only if they dont have a previous app investment elsewhere, and this isnt just a problem for firefox that they have to hurdle perfectly but anyone thats not google or apple.
Firefox OS it's not meant to drop an iPhone or a Galaxy device and choose Mozilla's one.
It's meant for people who can't even dream of an iPhone or a Galaxy. And it wants to bring a better, modern, experience to these people than a simple feature phone.

What does actually brings webOS to the people to let them drop their own iPhone or Galaxy device.
That's, actually, the question. Isn't it?
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Old 09/23/2012, 02:21 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Firefox OS it's not meant to drop an iPhone or a Galaxy device and choose Mozilla's one.
It's meant for people who can't even dream of an iPhone or a Galaxy. And it wants to bring a better, modern, experience to these people than a simple feature phone.

What does actually brings webOS to the people to let them drop their own iPhone or Galaxy device.
That's, actually, the question. Isn't it?
indeed which is why i said it was a hurdle for "anyone not google or apple", and no the question has nothing to do with webOS i thought i stated that clearly in my last post, you cant use webOS as an argument or even an example to somehow validate a firefox argument, webOS is not an opponent for firefox, webOS is and likely will remain hobbyist.

Ok so Firefox may not be competing with iphones "if" their intended to be cheap/budget phones, but that still leaves android as the main competitor and ofc powerful feature phones, tho feature phones these days are pretty much numbered anyways for the prices you can get some android smartphones fo, esp chineese knockoff devices (my 7" android tablet cost 55 pounds form hong kong and its perfectly fine for what it does, theres also cheap phones that are just as good as branded ones as well).
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