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webOS and Firefox (web)OS
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Old 09/23/2012, 03:43 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
indeed which is why i said it was a hurdle for "anyone not google or apple", and no the question has nothing to do with webOS i thought i stated that clearly in my last post, you cant use webOS as an argument or even an example to somehow validate a firefox argument, webOS is not an opponent for firefox, webOS is and likely will remain hobbyist.

Ok so Firefox may not be competing with iphones "if" their intended to be cheap/budget phones, but that still leaves android as the main competitor and ofc powerful feature phones, tho feature phones these days are pretty much numbered anyways for the prices you can get some android smartphones fo, esp chineese knockoff devices (my 7" android tablet cost 55 pounds form hong kong and its perfectly fine for what it does, theres also cheap phones that are just as good as branded ones as well).
Alright.
Point One: If webOS it's going to remain hobbyist that's one more reason for many developers who make also profit from their work to consider Firefox OS to express their html5 and javascript works and have finally a real platform to support them. One point.

Point Two: of course Android can run on cheap devices too but Mozilla and Telefonica are trying to deliver an alternative to it and to feature phones thus, not to iPhone and family. Besides that, as i already said, Mozilla gives a real opportunity to carriers to manage their own platform without having to deal with Google or Nokia or Apple and so. And this is something telcos are aiming for from already quite some time with different unsuccessful initiatives. I believe this might be the right one, also, but not only, because of the "power" of the Firefox and the Mozilla brands. Two points.

More, this all business is leading Mozilla to reach other, different and rich revenues for the future; you never know, once Google decide they don't need them anymore.

I don't intend to be polemical because i find webOS very very interesting (otherwise i wouldn't bother you on this site). But imo it's taking a developing curve which reminds me of the dozen of linux distros usefull no more than for the people who creates them.
And that would be a shame. that's why i believe if i was a webOS and Enyo developer right now i'd try to meet Mozilla's Boot to Gecko project aka Firefox OS.
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Old 09/23/2012, 03:57 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Here a presentation made for the T-Labs of Deutsche Telekom support to the Mozilla open web development where Firefox OS will come out from:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=h...illa.pdf&pli=1

I truely believe support from companies such Telefonica, T-Mobile, Sprint, Telecom Italia and others will push Firefox OS devices strongly into the market. Much stronger than what HP could do with webOS
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Old 09/23/2012, 05:35 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Here a presentation made for the T-Labs of Deutsche Telekom support to the Mozilla open web development where Firefox OS will come out from:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=h...illa.pdf&pli=1

I truely believe support from companies such Telefonica, T-Mobile, Sprint, Telecom Italia and others will push Firefox OS devices strongly into the market. Much stronger than what HP could do with webOS
to be fair to webOS they never had the intent to do anything with webOS, theres still this idea that webOS failed somehow due to it being a bad OS or something when in fact leo axed it nearly instantly not due to poor sales etc but because hed previously already set in motion his plan which included dumping smartphones/tablets and their entire PC line, which ofc is why their stock plummeted instantly, their name/brand made to ruin and their in their comedy situation right now of scrambling to plan B.

If firefox OS / boot to gecko can manage well then tbh gl, any new OS to the forefront has a huge uphill struggle ahead of it, if anything succeeds at that, then it totally deserves success.
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Old 09/23/2012, 05:47 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Alright.
Point One: If webOS it's going to remain hobbyist that's one more reason for many developers who make also profit from their work to consider Firefox OS to express their html5 and javascript works and have finally a real platform to support them. One point..
if devs really do embrace primarily html5, in the future why would you even need a firefox os, or ios, or android, or webOS, or anything specific, surely the logical route for html5 apps is to run on any old device that runs the standard?

its not like playing the flash game Pandemic2 is any different on my PC to my webOS phone & tablet or my android tablet, they all run flash and the game works on them all.

I read some of the boot2gecko/firefox os spiel on their website, and they like many i suppose, have high hopes for html5 apps, stating its easy for devs to go multi platform with their work (which is a good thing).

Surely then the idea is to just have your core html5 app and each platform would just have their own html5 "player/launcher" tool so the html5 devs dont even need to worry about device specifics and can just make 1 universal "works on anything that supports it" html5 app.

That "should" be how eventually devs gets the fullest of device support for his work, and tbh adobe flash wasnt a million miles off that already, its almost comical its being dumped for html5, its not like either is faster than the other in every way.

Lose the "app" requirement for needing a compile for a native version for every device going and just have an app that doesnt care what the underlying hardware is, it should only care that the hardware supports html5.
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Old 09/24/2012, 02:29 AM   #25 (permalink)
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...

Nothing matters unless you actually have a device that people can buy. You can talk and talk all day about how this platform is for this user, and that platform is for that user, but the fact is that the webOS platform is not for anybody anytime soon. If you don't think the carrier support is significant (especially in North America), then you are misinformed. One reason (just one of many) why webOS will fail is the silly notion held by much of the community about what it is or isn't compared to other platforms. Get off it, and concentrate on making the platform better AND getting it to people. I say all this earnestly.

I still follow webOS development, and like the platform. I am no developer, but would like to see webOS as an option in the market, and would be willing to contribute to that cause. However, the talk to action ratio is very high in the webOS community. That is a huge problem.
Thanks, I mostly agree, except for 2 points:
1) To your sentence "Nothing matters unless you actually have a device that people can buy" I would add: "and get the apps they want/need/know from other platforms"

2) The sentence "Get off it, and concentrate on making the platform better AND getting it to people" I cannot sign, because there is a lot going on in the community and WebOSInternals is at the moment already working on exactly what you tell us is needed...

So yes, I see the "grim"ness of the situation. No hardware to put WebOS on and no new apps to speak off in the app catalog. Those are the main problems to tackle.
Can all this be done only by the community? I doubt it.
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Old 09/24/2012, 03:05 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I truely believe support from companies such Telefonica, T-Mobile, Sprint, Telecom Italia and others will push Firefox OS devices strongly into the market.
You seem to believe that carriers are the saviours of operating systems, while they are, actually, the killers: Once they see this Firefox phones go nowhere, they'll forget about them like a broken toy. Believe me, that's what happened to webOS!

Their target is wrong: A "new" kind of phone, that consists in a wannabe "modern" phone, but at featurephone price? What can an operating system do in order to have a low cost device? People will happily keep their lower end phones, saving money for the bloody Galaxy 4, iPhone 6 or whatever comes next. I don't see the business point, sorry. If you justify it all because "carriers do believe", well, we speak different languages. I just don't see it.

webOS, otherwise, is now in our hands. Still not completelym, though. Some days I feel like I should be grateful to HP, because they burnt a hell of a lot of money into our platform and, albeit after almost killing it completely, now has put it into our hands.

I don't want carriers in my future. Alright, they help selling devices, of course. But I'm not interested in the market, I just want to see how far we webOS community can get into making an excellent operating system.
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Old 09/24/2012, 04:33 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Targeting development countries or other new markets with low priced phones would be one of the marketing lines, I would follow as a new competitor with a smartphone product. Instead of getting shredded to pieces by Android and iOS, I'ld put my plow on a field where no one has any marketshare yet.
To proudly plow where no man has plowed before :P
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