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Old 09/14/2012, 11:31 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Win-Pho 8 makes sense in light of first world markets and enterprise use for seamless integration with workspace and server support via internet/intranet. HP loves that market and there is zero reason to doubt it is a target.


However:

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Originally Posted by Isandunk View Post
Meg Whitman: "My view is that we have to ultimately offer a smartphone, because in many countries of the world, that is your first computing device! You know, there will be countries round the world where people may never own a tablet or a PC or a desktop, they will do everything on a smartphone - we're a computing company, we have to take advantage of that, er, form factor"
For developing markets, especially on the individual consumer level, Win-Pho 8 makes no sense as a choice. It adds cost via Msft licensing fees and integration with clients becomes less important. The key quote is above...


Analysis: HP will equate Win-Pho 8 with computing and produce a device that many in the emerging markets will not be able to afford. They will fail to penetrate into those markets as they expect, despite the Windows "advantage" they will tout.
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Old 09/14/2012, 11:41 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Emceesquared View Post
it took them this long to realize this?

HP must be run by the dumbest people in the world.

whatever they decide to do i better be able to run webOS on it one way or another.
Things would be much different today if Hurd hadn't got the axe. He was the big supporter and CEO at the time of purchase of Palm.

Looking at the Veer and Pre3, Palm with the power of HP had the ability (and now cashflow) to build high quality devices. The exodus of Hurd hurt the long term development of the Palm/webOS brand as his successor had no desire to continue in this market space.

I now feel with Meg she is trying to do what is best to pick up the pieces that Apotheker left. I don't know if at this point I can say I feel she wants to be spending time/money/resources on webOS or the mobile market space. I feel at the very least she is trying to make something with things the company already has without committing publicly to a long term plan. At the end of this month, and going forward we may see her actual attitude towards this market. Next Saturday will mark a year that she has been trying to stabilize a company that Apotheker sent into a tail spin.
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Old 09/14/2012, 11:42 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kataran View Post
how can they not make a smartphone that at least duel boots open webOS....


then why start up Gram???????????


Meg is intelligent enough to consider that they would sell more HP smartphones if webOS is applied to it....in fact i will pre order right now if i could!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There are are a lot of cross-subsidies (mainly marketing dollars) within the mobile sector that means that dual-booting phones are treated like the red headed step-child.


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Old 09/14/2012, 11:48 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RumoredNow View Post
Win-Pho 8 makes sense in light of first world markets and enterprise use for seamless integration with workspace and server support via internet/intranet. HP loves that market and there is zero reason to doubt it is a target.


However:



For developing markets, especially on the individual consumer level, Win-Pho 8 makes no sense as a choice. It adds cost via Msft licensing fees and integration with clients becomes less important. The key quote is above...


Analysis: HP will equate Win-Pho 8 with computing and produce a device that many in the emerging markets will not be able to afford. They will fail to penetrate into those markets as they expect, despite the Windows "advantage" they will tout.
But does HP really want to be scrapping it out at the bottom of the market against RIM, Nokia and various no name owns for virtually no margins - I think only Samsung really makes that model work at the low end because they effectively own their own supply chain.

I think in the long-term RIM is done but for the moment their particular business model (cheap BIS plans) would make them a tough one to take on (especially since RIM is making buttons).

I would think if they got back into smartphones, meg would at least want a plan that could result in decent margins.

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Old 09/14/2012, 11:52 AM   #45 (permalink)
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There are are a lot of cross-subsidies (mainly marketing dollars) within the mobile sector that means that dual-booting phones are treated like the red headed step-child.


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it only has to have the internal hardware/linux kernel support etc, they dont have to bundle or install webOS at all, the homebrew crowd can cater to the webOS side of things, just get the hardware out there with winblows as standard or whatever they end up using, the rest can be done by the webOS enthusiast/user.
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Old 09/14/2012, 12:02 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Everyone is saying dual boot with Winodws 8. But I've read some where that when an OEM license Windows 8 Phone OS, they must lock the device so that it cannot dual boot with any other OS.
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Old 09/14/2012, 12:09 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Everyone is saying dual boot with Winodws 8. But I've read some where that when an OEM license Windows 8 Phone OS, they must lock the device so that it cannot dual boot with any other OS.
sounds possible from this article, it would have to be done on a phone by phone basis...

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Each Windows Phone 8 comes with a Read Only Chip which has set of information already burnt into it. This Read only chip has a Unique ID for every phone and includes digital signatures certified by Microsoft. During the boot process, Firmware (United Extensible Firmware Interface or UEFI ) and Bootloader both have to agree on the sequence of steps and validate the hash of the Keys already available. This means the only way to build a correct custom rom is to get all those digital signatures in one place and without this, phone will not boot at all.
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Old 09/14/2012, 12:10 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Doesn't MS have requirements for WP phones having a locked bootloader? I believe they're pretty strict; worse than iOS golden cage in some ways.
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Old 09/14/2012, 12:14 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Everyone is saying dual boot with Winodws 8. But I've read some where that when an OEM license Windows 8 Phone OS, they must lock the device so that it cannot dual boot with any other OS.
Personally i dont even hint at dualboot, i mean total erasure of windows and installation of webOS, dont need/want windows so completely uninterested in dualboot, leave that phenomenon for the CM7/9/10 fans on the touchpad, its not needed on a phone.
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Old 09/14/2012, 12:15 PM   #50 (permalink)
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But does HP really want to be scrapping it out at the bottom of the market against RIM, Nokia and various no name owns for virtually no margins - ...
No they don't. They'll make some headway into developed markets with a Win-Pho 8 device based on enterprise. I am doubtful it will translate to success in emerging markets. That was the stated hope in the direct quote from Ms. Whitman: "...we have to ultimately offer a smartphone, because in many countries of the world, that is your first computing device! You know, there will be countries round the world where people may never own a tablet or a PC or a desktop, they will do everything on a smartphone - we're a computing company, we have to take advantage of that, er, form factor"

Emerging markets are different from what you and I see. What serves as bottom of the market in N. America/Europe is the most economically viable option for individual consumers in third world countries. If the sole computing device you can afford is a smartphone, chances are you can not justify a first world expenditure no matter how much you need the device.

HP, most likely, will confuse the issue by trying to cater to first world enterprise needs and still attempt to market a high end device with inflated cost due to licensing fees and hardware spec in countries where most individual consumers are unable to meet that price point.
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Old 09/14/2012, 12:15 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by slbailey1 View Post
Everyone is saying dual boot with Winodws 8. But I've read some where that when an OEM license Windows 8 Phone OS, they must lock the device so that it cannot dual boot with any other OS.
Then the solution is simple... don't dual boot it. Run webOS only.
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Old 09/14/2012, 12:52 PM   #52 (permalink)
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I think that HP getting a bit concerned that PC business is not doing so good after all, and maybe a light-bulb lit up somewhere in HP to make them think that HP needs to be on mobile. Today, I'm sure that everyone read the news of the HP's (not so smart) CEO Mrs Whitman, who has said that the company needs to built a smartphone. Two years (HP) that has been spent on just wasting time with WebOS and nothing has come to fruition, the HP Palm Pre 3 got canned and not even released to the public at all. After all this time, that her stupid brain realizes that your silly HP company needs to be on the smartphone and tablet business, NEWSFLASH !!!! lady you too late in the game already(that train left that station long time ago). You got now stronger competitors in the market, that HP phones won't even make an impact anymore, lets take a look shall we? Windows Phone 8 from Nokias, Samsung/HTC/Motorola with Android, Apple's with its iPhone, and Blackberry with its BB 10, Can HP deliver a great phone that could attract the attention from the public that would line-up for days outside of a store just to buy a simple phone, I don't think so ? Sorry Mrs Whitman, you had the chance with the Palm Pre 3 and you blew it....

Quote:
Whitman states will "have to ultimately offer a smartphone, because in many countries in the world that is your first computing device. You know, there will be countries around the world where people may never own a tablet or a PC or desktop. They will do everything on the smartphone. We're a computing company, we have to take advantage of that form factor."
That very hilarious silly Mrs Whitman, how do you plan to do that ? You have fired most of the people within HP WebOS engineers(mind you) and other employees not related to the WebOS unit team, and most of the brilliant engineers are already been snatched by the biggest company like Google, Nokia, Apple and HTC. Now let us know how you plan to capture the attention of the world like Apple does with their all-look-alike-same iPhone models ? Are you gonna launch a phone then cancel it, maybe later ? (like HP TouchPad and Palm Pre3)
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Old 09/14/2012, 12:54 PM   #53 (permalink)
 
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Old 09/14/2012, 01:23 PM   #54 (permalink)
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This is my opinion only, just my two cents, on just because there is a form factor, we need to be on that form factor… Make calculators at least I know HP/Palm is good at that.

I saw before Palm, HP had a SmartPhone, I do not know the OS, not sure if it was Windows Mobile or not, I know Compaq had the IPAQ and their PDA's...

The issues for HP/Palm was always execution, If you want a computing device in some 3rd world it cannot be Windows to much cost, even the $100 PC used Linux not Windows...

So I have a note to all, HP/Palm will not have a webOS product, they are not looking into the mobile market as a place to go, but as we need to have a device to meet the form factor.

If you are looking to produce a device for a form factor, not for the mass-market, it will be a phone to get the job done, call people, light email, light web, some computing (calculator), but not a heavy hitter...

Now if she said we want to make a Smart Phone to take on the US/Euro markets, then I would say wow they have something...
I wish HP/Palm would wake up to love webOS as much as most users on this forum, but I do not think that will happen….

If I just had 15 minutes in front of the Board, I would inform them, how the marketing, the product design, the platform, was not 100% but was there, the issue was execution of the platform…

Lets release a smartphone, very small, very cute, called the Veer to AT&T then to O2, expect something to happen, when the Apps were not there, nor the technical support…

Then release a Tablet, in 2011, with 2005 parts, that was on par of performance and charge $600 for it when an IPAD 2 was released which ran circles around it hardware wise, the OS was not ready, even though they announced it a year before in 2010 and still did not get it right (although 3.0.5 is better, the UI screams once LunaCE is applied), but without the patches and the homebrew, the Apps were still not there, nor the technical support.

Then killing the entire line hurt, again the execution, we (HP/Palm) want to be in the software business, but did not think, how to get HP/Palm there…
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Old 09/14/2012, 01:26 PM   #55 (permalink)
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right but the companies who have tailored devices specifically for those markets are failing to serious money in those areas, so why do we think that HP came do any better?

More importantly why would HP think they can do any better?


Quote:
Originally Posted by RumoredNow View Post
Emerging markets are different from what you and I see. What serves as bottom of the market in N. America/Europe is the most economically viable option for individual consumers in third world countries. If the sole computing device you can afford is a smartphone, chances are you can not justify a first world expenditure no matter how much you need the device.

HP, most likely, will confuse the issue by trying to cater to first world enterprise needs and still attempt to market a high end device with inflated cost due to licensing fees and hardware spec in countries where most individual consumers are unable to meet that price point.

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Old 09/14/2012, 01:36 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by John Steffes View Post
Lets release a smartphone, very small, very cute, called the Veer to AT&T then to O2, expect something to happen, when the Apps were not there, nor the technical support…
2
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Steffes View Post
Then release a Tablet, in 2011, with 2005 parts, that was on par of performance and charge $600 for it when an IPAD 2 was released which ran circles around it hardware wise, the OS was not ready, even though they announced it a year before in 2010 and still did not get it right (although 3.0.5 is better, the UI screams once LunaCE is applied), but without the patches and the homebrew, the Apps were still not there, nor the technical support.
3
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Then killing the entire line hurt, again the execution, we (HP/Palm) want to be in the software business, but did not think, how to get HP/Palm there…
1+2=3

Leo wanted 3, 1 and 2 were the precipice of him being able to have an "excuse" to do number three. Remember this wasn't a board initiated decision. Clearly his execution of his plan to create an "excuse" wasn't good enough as he got the boot within a month of his decision.

What is worse is even after 1 and 2... carriers like AT&T and VZW were still on board to carry more devices (unlike what Sprint did to our beloved OS).
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Old 09/14/2012, 01:42 PM   #57 (permalink)
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right but the companies who have tailored devices specifically for those markets are failing to serious money in those areas, so why do we think that HP came do any better?

More importantly why would HP think they can do any better?
Where in my posts do I assert HP will do better in emerging markets than the competition?

Nowhere.

Why are you trying to counter my parallel argument?
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Old 09/14/2012, 01:45 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Leo wanted 3, 1 and 2 were the precipice of him being able to have an "excuse" to do number three. Remember this wasn't a board initiated decision. Clearly his execution of his plan to create an "excuse" wasn't good enough as he got the boot within a month of his decision.

What is worse is even after 1 and 2... carriers like AT&T and VZW were still on board to carry more devices (unlike what Sprint did to our beloved OS).

I agree Leo wanted to kill it and the PC, but, that does not change the fact that designing a device just to meet a form factor means they will make any real SmartPhone for US/EURO market.

Again, I do not know what HP/Palm are up to, nor what Gr.am is up to, but my hopes are low for HP/Palm to do the right thing in the coming months... I would love a Touchpad 2 and Pre 4 on Verizon with Open webOS with ACL.
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Old 09/14/2012, 01:50 PM   #59 (permalink)
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...So I have a note to all, HP/Palm will not have a webOS product, they are not looking into the mobile market as a place to go, but as we need to have a device to meet the form factor.

If you are looking to produce a device for a form factor, not for the mass-market, it will be a phone to get the job done, call people, light email, light web, some computing (calculator), but not a heavy hitter...
That's what I'm thinking. If HP makes a WebOS phone, it will be a low end phone that just does the basics and sell them in third world markets.

Now, if HP wants to sell smartphones in the First World markets, they will have to tie themselves to an OS that already have an established ecosystem; that means Windows Phone OS or Android. With HP relationship with Microsoft, that only leaves HP releasing a Windows 8 Phone.

Edit: In today's mobile market, NO US carrier will touch a WebOS phone.

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Old 09/14/2012, 02:18 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I agree Leo wanted to kill it and the PC, but, that does not change the fact that designing a device just to meet a form factor means they will make any real SmartPhone for US/EURO market.
Oh yeah I agree with you on that part for sure!
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