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OpenwebOS has a real future for mobile world ?
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Old 09/05/2012, 08:03 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Thank you for sharing the article with the community wolfgart.. I'm sure many, like myself always love to see that webOS is being raised in the media somehow.. even if it is negative... any press is good press right? And at least in a funny way, articles such as this helps to keep the webOS brand / legend out there in the public..

You're right, the lack of support for legacy devices or even one device aside from Ubuntu-desktops is disappointing and definitely a poor choice of strategy, but as for the lack of certain key components, please remember it is a beta .. not everything is meant to be working just yet!

Yes, we are all disappointed about how webOS had so much potential in 2009, but has since floundered under poor management decisions in Palm and HP, but as bluenote has said, you as a member of the community, do have a choice.. u can choose to re-hash the past like many have, over and over and over again / bag out HP for not doing enough to help make webOS the star it can be, or u can join us as we all bunch together and help support the guys in the community who ARE making a difference (webOS internals / ports).

I think it's a universally accepted fact that HP just doesn't have the will to heavily invest in webOS, but having said that, they will apparently be releasing details on what is planned following the full final release of open webOS code in Sept.. and don't forget that HP has recently advertised a fair number of jobs on webosjobs.com

I still think webOS is the best mobile OS out there even though many of the key features have since been copied in other platforms. webOS still does them better - apps / ecosystem are going to be the challenge.

Nevertheless, don't under-estimate the power of the open source community and in particular, our webOS community .. webOS Internals, webOS Ports and possibly Phoenix, may not be large corporations, but they work wonders..

The fact that you're still posting on these forums suggests that you still hold some sort of hope even if you are disappointed with how things have turned out for webOS (we all are mate) .. it's just the beginning of a new chapter, and whilst it is definitely going to be yet another long and bumpy journey, strap yourself in .. it will be exciting!

Edit: Garrett92C beat me to the webosjobs thing haha
You stopped using 'u' halfway in the post. Simply infuriating. You could spell everything else out fine...

As for op, please try to read before 'whistleblowing' of sorts

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Old 09/05/2012, 11:45 AM   #22 (permalink)
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guys : i don't want make fire or something like this , I LOVE webOS , BUT , for example today it was presented in NY the new Lumia 920 , so ...watch this promo video , the last 120 seconds !!!!!! Introducing the Nokia Lumia 920 - YouTube

Patents go away !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and we still play with a NUDE beta of OpenwebOS that doesn't has NOTHING
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Old 09/05/2012, 11:51 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Why so serious?
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Old 09/05/2012, 11:53 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wolfgart View Post
guys : i don't want make fire or something like this , I LOVE webOS , BUT , for example today it was presented in NY the new Lumia 920 , so ...watch this promo video , the last 120 seconds !!!!!! Introducing the Nokia Lumia 920 - YouTube

Patents go away !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and we still play with a NUDE beta of OpenwebOS that doesn't have NOTHING
Huh? Are you talking about the wireless charging or something?
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Old 09/05/2012, 11:57 AM   #25 (permalink)
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There's more than one way to make a car/house/phone/airplane/(insert your favorite item here).....there's more than one way to make inductive charging. No patent violation.

doesn't have NOTHING = has something. Do some research on double negatives.
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Old 09/05/2012, 12:11 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Huh? Are you talking about the wireless charging or something?
Yeah
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Old 09/05/2012, 12:34 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wolfgart View Post
...and we still play with a NUDE beta of OpenwebOS that doesn't has NOTHING
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Originally Posted by sledge007 View Post
...doesn't have NOTHING = has something. Do some research on double negatives.
If I'm correct, friend wolfgart is not a native speaker of English. He probably learned that from us Americans and our horribly lazy use of the language and not from you natty Canadians.
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Old 09/05/2012, 12:37 PM   #28 (permalink)
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If I'm correct, friend wolfgart is not a native speaker of English. He probably learned that from us Americans and our horribly lazy use of the language and not from you natty Canadians.
Hahhahaahahah

Sure
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Old 09/06/2012, 04:49 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Be democratic.

This is my Opinion and is the same of a lot of guys here that don't speak !
I've avoided this site during the month of August out of disgust.

And I agree with Wolfgart's sentiments if not with his reasoning: the current end-users of webOS are effectively done as far as HP has made clear to everyone. While the Community Edition of webOS 3.0 will hold homebrew interest for a few months, eventually developers (mainstream and homebrewers alike) will stop handling the 2.X and 3.X codebase in entirety and follow along with GRAM and Open webOS. This day is coming sooner than later, and if your current webOS device doesn't get mothballed as an odd part of mobile tech history, soon it'll stop working and you'll face the same issue many others already have: when it stops working, someone will invariably ask "So, what are you going to do now?"

The closed source webOS world (end-user centered experience) is in a state of regression, and open source isn't end-user friendly, and isn't going to be that way until it's in a state very far off of the immediate timeline. (Preware's Community Edition Feed instructions read basically like this: "know what you are doing, or GTFO"... and it's not going to get any more gentle when OpenEmbedded comes out of beta and people want to load it onto other devices.) While I try to take ownership of my assumptions, I can imagine end-users are tired of waiting, like they waited when Palm got sold, when the TP/Veer/Pre3 was announced, when Meg was deciding what's left to do with the software after Leo terminated the webOS hardware lineup... and after the last 6 months when the diehards still using the software we're told last month "Hey, we never said Open webOS was going to run on your current hardware" (when HP kept reading our feedback and expectations on this site back in June and never batted an eyelash thinking, "maybe we should tell them what we're trying to do?")

I'm still here because I love the platform, even if it's dead now. I'll ride it until it's out of breath and the slider on my Pre 2 fails to close from Rigor Mortis. (And even then, if there's a signal, it's still good in my book.)

But I'm making my loyalty more specific: I've deleted all of my payment methods from the App Catalog. If any money comes out of my pocket for webOS, it's going to webOS Internals donations from now on. (That is, when I get my next job. Right now, I've got a powerful need to eat on at least a daily basis, let alone read with the lights on.) That might irritate some developers on these boards by me saying this, but if they're of the same viewpoint as fxspec06, I doubt that I matter much to them at all going forward.

Last edited by rennock; 09/06/2012 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 09/06/2012, 07:59 PM   #30 (permalink)
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[I've removed the attribution of the following quote, as my response is not directed to one person in particular.]

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You, as a member of the community, do have a choice.. you can choose to re-hash the past like many have, over and over and over again / bag out HP for not doing enough to help make webOS the star it can be, or you can join us as we all bunch together and help support the guys in the community who ARE making a difference (webOS internals / ports).
Fully agree.

To those who continue to post negative could-have, should-have, would-have thoughts about the past in this "webOS open source" part of the forums: If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem.

Seriously, if you have no interest in Open webOS or webOS CE at this point, and you're not happy with the way your current webOS device works (and the selection of apps available to you) then you should just stop complaining and move on to another platform. There is no known commercial release of webOS on the horizon waiting for you.

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Old 09/06/2012, 08:02 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I(Preware's Community Edition Feed instructions read basically like this: "know what you are doing, or GTFO"... and it's not going to get any more gentle when OpenEmbedded comes out of beta and people want to load it onto other devices.) .
Welcome back.

The Community Edition Beta (LunaCE) can be installed in the same user friendly way like all other patches and apps from Preware, it can be removed the same way, and moreover, there is a stock Luna in Preware that one can revert to, for isolated problem cases.
(today there is a cool new feature where you can tap on cards to make them minicards and then slowly enlarge them to the size you want)

There is a changelog in each package. If you click on the question marks in the Tweaks application used to control LunaCE, you get explanations of all the features.

webOS doctor is always there and it remains hard to brick a webOS device.

webOs internals and homebrew still remain the envy of other ecosystems.

As to open WebOS, we still need to wait until end of Sept when we get webOS 1.0 in order to know options and limits for its use.
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Old 09/06/2012, 09:11 PM   #32 (permalink)
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(Preware's Community Edition Feed instructions read basically like this: "know what you are doing, or GTFO"...
You're reading it how you want it to be read. (I have NEVER felt the way you do, even when I barely knew how to use my Pre- in January 2010)

Let's go over this:
Quote:
1. Anyone participating in WebOS Internals alpha or beta testing of any kind must be prepared to fully erase and webOS Doctor their device at a moment's notice without warning and without any regrets or complaints.

2. They must be prepared to and able to log into the command line on the device and type Linux commands when instructed to do so. Knowing Linux commands ahead of time is preferred, but not required if you are willing to learn them when necessary or can follow instructions without making mistakes.

3. They must be prepared to go to great and extraordinary lengths to try and reliably reproduce any problems they encounter.

4. They must give full and detailed bug reports, leaving out no piece of information which could possibly be remotely connected to the problem.

5. They must read any and all documentation and forums threads (in their entirety) before asking a question.

6. They must fastidiously follow the forum threads where the alpha testing is being discussed by the authors, and follow precisely any instructions given there.

7. They will never post the raw testing feed URLs or instructions anywhere, but will always refer others directly to this page using only the URL "http://testing.preware.org/"

8. When asking for help, they will include the phrase (which may change occasionally) "I've read the rules". Failure to include the phrase will result in the request for help being silently ignored.
1. If you aren't able (or willing)to complete a doctor of your device.....then you probably aren't candidate material for alpha/beta testing, plain and simple. This isn't being derogatory, it just makes sense.

2. If you aren't sure on how to do this step, it doesn't hurt to ask around beforehand. There are several ways to access the commandline. As for knowing Linux commands....I can read, copy and paste them....but ask me how to actually send a command, I'd have no idea without researching it.....That's all they're asking.

3/4. If you can't replicate a problem, you can't troubleshoot it. Simply saying my WiFi doesn't work, or my email doesn't work, because of this...with no background....isn't much help. Part of the Alpha/Beta testing process, is having testers actually test so that it can be released into the wild for all others to enjoy, who aren't interested in testing.

5. It's always a good idea to read up (read:educate yourself) before trying something new isn't it? Would you jump out of a plane with a parachute, without going to ground school?

6. Sometimes (for example kernel testing, ie F-15 for the TouchPad), something goes haywire, and you need to fix your device quick before something gets wrecked. If you aren't following along, all of a sudden your device is broken. Had you been following the thread, you might have saved your device. Recall Unixpsycho ramping up the kernel so there was absolutely ZERO downtime, and people started crying because all of a sudden their batteries were draining, rather quickly. He was playing around, because nobody was reading the thread, or giving any feedback.

7. This is simply to protect yourself, (and others). If you screw up your own device, you have nobody to thank, but yourself. If somebody tells you how to do something (remember we're not talking about everyday things, Alpha/Beta/Bleeding Edge Testing), and your device breaks, now you're going to blame them. This is intended to prevent that. Not create a secret society.

8. Saying you've read the rules, implies that you actually read the rules, plain and simple. People are more willing to help others that try to help/educate themselves.

I hope that brings a little clarity to your views, of "know what you're doing or GTFO", because the cold, harsh reality of it is, that isn't the case.... Just follow the rules!
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Old 09/07/2012, 01:41 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Recall Unixpsycho ramping up the kernel so there was absolutely ZERO downtime, and people started crying because all of a sudden their batteries were draining, rather quickly. He was playing around, because nobody was reading the thread, or giving any feedback.
Warf, didn't know about this one. I find it kind of funny
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Old 09/07/2012, 03:54 PM   #34 (permalink)
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"know what you're doing or GTFO"

There is some truth to that, when talking about *testing*. Alpha and beta releases are for just that; testing!. When there is a stable release, it will be in the regular preware channels. Also, it will have the nice, user-friendly directions we have come to expect from the homebrew community. Until then, there are going to be requirements to meet before installing/testing alpha and beta code. Not to be rude to anyone, but those requirements are needed to make sure the people installing alpha/beta code are doing so *knowing* that they are installing code that *might* cause a problem on their device. The idea is less to separate the community, as it is to make sure that people don't accidentally install alpha/beta code thinking it is a stable release.

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Old 09/11/2012, 03:06 AM   #35 (permalink)
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To me it looks as if there are two opposing standpoints posted here by two groups I would call "roughly"
the "valiant defenders" vs. the "disappointed pessimists".

For me the truth is in the middle. If openWebOS would only be HP, then definitely, wolfgart would be right. It is dead at birth.
But wolfgart, you seem to either not know of or not trust the abilities and fiery determination of the "Frankensteins", which are at the core of the WebOS community.
They will make something of openWebOS (already have in parts with LunaCE) and when the first device is running openWebOS (be it smartphone or tablet) they will stand there and luna-tically shout "IT'S ALIIIIVE, IT'S ALIIIIVE" ...
heheheh

SCNR.

I did my share of critical postings, mostly agains HP and their inept handling of the WebOS situation. And I do not believe that WebOS will be more than an enthusiasts platform as long as there is only our community to take care of it.
But I still like WebOS, and even if I am too chickensh*t to enable the beta feeds in Preware and try LunaCE, the things I have read are making my mouth water
Yes, if my Pre3 continues to ***** up my day, I might change to a Galaxy S3 soon, but I still try to wait until the first sucessful port of openWebOS to a new smartphone, to buy that then.

But I am a fan. I am an enthusiast.
Most people are not. They take what works for them, which means a product with an OS supported by it's vendor and/or the provider and with an app catalog/store filled to the brim with apps that are mostly trash.
This is something the WebOS environment can not provide. We should be honest about this. For me that is no turn off, but for many this is.
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Old 09/11/2012, 10:52 AM   #36 (permalink)
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You're reading it how you want it to be read.
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[I've removed the attribution of the following quote, as my response is not directed to one person in particular.]



Fully agree.

To those who continue to post negative could-have, should-have, would-have thoughts about the past in this "webOS open source" part of the forums: If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem.

Seriously, if you have no interest in Open webOS or webOS CE at this point, and you're not happy with the way your current webOS device works (and the selection of apps available to you) then you should just stop complaining and move on to another platform. There is no known commercial release of webOS on the horizon waiting for you.

-- Rod
I'll just put it simply: Message received. I'm through, and it's clear I don't belong in this community in any form.

I'll still donate to webOS-Internals, but it's a one-shot deal -- I'm not interested in the learning curve past BASH and package management, so this is where I get off the bus. I was a fan, the ride was fun.

Thanks for being a straight shooter, Rod. (I guess this is as close as I get to being told this: http://tinyurl.com/timetoleave) I appreciate what was accomplished, for what it's worth, and thank everyone for the free goodies thus far.

Last edited by rennock; 09/11/2012 at 11:25 AM. Reason: Last edit: if I can't make them like me, I'll make them laugh at least once.
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